Programmed to be anti-gun

[LRS_Ranger]

No insurance?

I asked: "have you ever had a house fire, flood, earthquake or tornado?"
You said: "No, I live in NY, those things don't happen here."

By this, I take it to mean that you don't carry insurance of any kind, or do you? I kind of hope that you don't, because then at least you will be consistant.
Not only is my CC pistol a source of enjoyment, as I shoot IDPA, but it is also my source of protection as I can't carry my Benelli everywhere I go. (I wish I could, but since it's not the wild west anymore I have to make do with something smaller) I carry it for the same reason that I have an alarm system on my house, and fire, flood, and automotive insurance. Just in case. I HAVE had to pull it once. I am still glad to this day that I didn't have to use it. It's simply my insurance policy. Just because there are a few retards that do the wrong thing doesn't mean that my rights should be restricted. Are you really a gun dealer? If so what's your ffl and where do you work?
Anyway, for the good of the Law-abiding citizens in the rest of free America, please keep yourself and your liberal votes in New York or California or some state where I can choose not to live.

 

[Deanimator]

They have alternate viewpoints on a social issue.

The inability or unwillingness to understand that alternate viewpoint is:

"a failure to think"

I used to see EXACTLY the same "argument" from the followers of the late Dr. William Pierce.

Racism is an "alternate viewpoint".
Anti-Semitism is an "alternate viewpoint".
Gay bashing is an "alternate viewpoint".
Holocaust denial is an "alternate viewpoint".

... if you're the perpetrator instead of the victim.

Anti-gunners actively and knowingly seek to harm others by depriving them both of their lawfully owned property, and more importantly, the right to defend themselves from the unlawful use of deadly force.

You advocate harm in EXACTLY the way that those who advocate anti-sodomy laws do.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

I hate to double post, but...

Quote:
"Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people. "

The body armor argument is brought up all the time. I say "who cares?" Who did he shoot that had body armor on? Did it make a difference whether his pistol had body-armor penetrating capability? Why is this such a big issue? Where are all the shot body armor wearing victims that have been shot down at the mall while shopping? To me, this is the biggest scare tactic non-issue ever.

I really hope that you are taking the time to read some of these responses, there is always more than one way to look at something. Learn from the experiences other people. None of us know everything.

 

[Dravur]

Some truly are afraid of guns, other's just support keeping them out of criminal hands (because 2% of gun show sales in criminal hands is 2% too high). You label them all the same.

Why is it, we are supposed to give credence to people like this? If someone has an irrational fear of guns, then we politely wave at them and dismiss their ideas as the talk of a crazy person... same as an irrational fear of garden rakes and circus clowns. We do not give them the power to take garden rakes away or to force clowns out of business. We ignore them.

By the same twisted logic of the 2% gun show silliness.... It has been proven that Car lots are places where criminals get their cars. Or even worse! they get them off the street from some "private transaction". Now, why in the world do we allow car people to get together to sell these high powered death machines and getaway vehicles to the common criminal without a background check! Oh, the horrors!

See.. we should lend no more credence to these morons and their sycophants than we would to any other nutter with a cause.

You are free to have whatever Alternate Viewpoint.... but I have the right to dismiss it out of hand when it does not deal in logic or have any basis in fact.

 

[Gouranga]

I was thinking the same thing Deanimator. Why is an Islamic Cleric any less reliable than my baptist pastor? I have met many Muslims, and while we disagree on religious beliefs, they are no less or more moral than I. They LOVE the US, and would defend her. We have Muslims serving in the military who risk their lives day in day out for us to have the right to live.

I really do not want to play gang up on a poster here. Really, you voiced your opinion, and we all have them. Nor is it my intention to slam all NYers. I lived there for 25 years and have many fond memories of the western part of the state. My point of contention was the "training" I received. I used to think that all this hype that TV and such can influence how you think was garbage but when you look inside you see stuff like this.

I mean getting to irrational fear, I grew up afraid of handguns, the first one I bought, I was really nervous, like I was doing something wrong. I committed myself to the range 3 times a week for 3 months until I learned that gun like it was an extension of my own hand. My wife is the same way. My father when I talk to him rationally, on his fear of me with a handgun, admits it is irrational. Doubly so when you consider my sister is a cop in NY. She and her husband (who is a cop as well) have a lot of handguns and are always armed. That does not make him nervous at all(as they are cops and cops should have guns).

My father also recognizes, I have fired my weapon more than 10 times as much as my sister and brother in law combined. I have received more firearms focused training than they did.

It is amazing to me the level of programming and not only that but how DEEP it goes. When you are fearful of these weapons so deep, when anti's spew ridiculous claims (i.e. all handgun owners WANT to shoot someone), it becomes instant truth to you.

You look at the posts across this site, you see folks who do not take gun safety lightly. In my experience they represent the majority.

As to the other point I do not ever put myself in danger deliberately. The gun is NOT a ticket to go start trouble or some badge of courage. Because I literally carry the power to end a life and/or cause extreme harm to another human being I am doubly careful in avoiding situations that could turn violent, confrontational, etc. Once again, this has been the status quo from gun owners I know. I also do not have a bunker in my back yard, though I have 4 daughters so I may need one to live in for a week every month when they hit their teens.

In short, everything I was taught on guns in NY was totally incorrect. it was an example as to another danger in gun bans. I am not a criminal but the statement Lopezni shared (which is pretty brave to throw up in this community), paints me as one. That mentality is borne out of such an environment created by gun bans. I can say this as well, it was NOT easy to break out of it. If any of you talked to me 8 years ago, I would likely have the same things to say that Lopezni did about many members of this board. Sad to say it but it is true.

 

[benEzra]

Any state that simply uses the NICS check as a basis to sell someone a handgun.

Which states DON'T? The New York background check is based on NICS, unless you live in NYC, is it not?

NJ goes waay beyond NICS into petty harassment (resulting in the lowest rate of lawful gun ownership in the nation, though it doesn't seem to affect criminal misuse), and so does Massachusetts. Most of the rest use the standard databases, even states that route the check through a state level LE organization (i.e., Florida checks go through FDLE but accesses the Federal database).

Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people.

You've been had. 5.7x28mm won't penetrate any vest rated to stop .357, and that is true whether you're talking about civilian-available OR military/LEO restricted AP. 5.7 civilian ammo is stopped by .357-rated vests, and anything restricted 5.7x28 AP will penetrate, .357 AP will.

 

[TexasRifleman]

However I do have a problem with states that just pass them out to anyone. I don't want every random idiot who wants a handgun to be able to carry one.

I have to say, I feel the same way about voter registration cards. I think we should limit voter registration to people who can pass an IQ and reading test. I don't want every random idiot to be able to vote.....

Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people.

First of all, many firearms sold today have the capacity to penetrate body armor. Pretty much any rifle will.. The Five Seven in particular requires special ammunition however, the purchase of which is restricted. But of course you know that, you're just putting the straw man argument out there since you don't have any real point.

Second, the guy was an officer in the US Army. How easy do you think it would have been for him to find 4 people who would give him a great personal recommendation? Give me a break....

Third, what does magazine capacity have to do with anything? It's pretty easy to reload magazine fed handguns so this is another anti talking point that makes no sense.

Most of this is cut and paste from the anti playbook, well beaten down arguments that really don't hold up under any scrutiny. It's getting a bit old.

I do find it interesting that you hail the lofty NY restrictions as effective yet your state has a higher gun crime rate than mine, where we just "hand them out to anyone"...... Did you ever consider the possibility that it's not a GUN problem?

 

[Trumac]

Any state that simply uses the NICS check as a basis to sell someone a handgun. Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people. In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done. I don't think the judge would have accepted an Islamic Cleric as a reference. Florida gave Plaxico Burris a permit and he came to NY and shot himself with his pistol.



No, I live in NY, those things don't happen here.

also, I met some idiot who has no business owning any firearm say he was going to AZ to get a Glock and bring it back to NY. He said I'd like to see NY do something about that, I guess Plaxico needs a new roomate

I watched a house burn down just the other day...I live in NY.. I thought those things don't happen here..
Also, as an LEO, if I were to find someone in possession of a handgun and they had no NYS permit I'd be seizing it. That is what NY would do about it.

 

[lopezni]

What would you do in your utopia free from handguns

I never said I wanted to get rid of handguns, I want to change they way people obtain a CCW.

Second, the guy was an officer in the US Army. How easy do you think it would have been for him to find 4 people who would give him a great personal recommendation? Give me a break....

No, It would've had to've been 4 people living in the county, could not have been his soldiers as that is a conflict of interest.

and if you notice, people generally don't take bolt action rifles on shooting sprees or robberies, the 4rnd capacity and slow rate of fire kind of hinder that. In fact, most criminals probably wouldn't even look at a rifle or shotgun because it is not gangster enough

 

[TexasRifleman]

No, It would've had to've been 4 people living in the county, could not have been his soldiers as that is a conflict of interest.

Again, it's well reported that the Major had many friends around town. You're just not going to get it to pass the smell test that an officer in the US Army would have trouble getting references.

If he can pass all the DoD background checks you can't possibly be suggesting that the State of NY would have uncovered something are you ?

You need to abandon that argument, it's not going to help you.

 

[Deanimator]

and if you notice, people generally don't take bolt action rifles on shooting sprees or robberies,

..other than Charles Whitman, etc.

Of course the Beltway snipers would have been well served by a bolt action rifle.

the 4rnd capacity and slow rate of fire kind of hinder that. In fact, most criminals probably wouldn't even look at a rifle or shotgun because it is not gangster enough

Criminals don't use SHOTGUNS???

You're standing there now, literally dripping with FAIL, like Carrie at the prom.

 

[CoRoMo]

I want to change they way people obtain a CCW.

Fortunately for freedom and liberty, you'll never get your chance. You're on the losing side of an idealistic war. How ironic it is that this thread began with a New Yorker detailing his liberation from bad programming, and here we have a fellow New Yorker trapped in similar delusion, but with no logical escape. The OP illustrates the absurdity of the programming through his departure from it, lopezni illustrates the same absurdity through his continuation within it.

 

[winknplink]

You're standing there now, literally dripping with FAIL, like Carrie at the prom.

From his first post...not fact one presented, just smear and conjecture.

My condolences to Trumac for having to share a state with these two vocally ill-informed individuals.

And bless all you guys with more patience than I possess for trying (fruitlessly) to reason with this man.

 

[Deanimator]

You're on the losing side of an idealistic war.

It's no more "idealistic" than a campaign to support racial segregation of the schools. What these AHSA types are doing is trying to limit fundamental human rights to their own magic chalk circle of those who're "better" than the rest of us. His appeal to anti-Muslim bigotry was like a fog horn warning of it.

 

[Patriotme]

I live in VA which is a mostly pro gun state. Northern VA has a very large amount of Liberals (can't we just give the top 30 miles to Maryland?) but the rest of the state is very pro gun. I suprised by my daughter telling me that some of her teachers were telling students that no one has a right to own guns. She also said that police officers would come into the Elementary School classes and also tell the kids that no one had the right to own guns. As my daughter had been shooting for years and growing up in a very political household she knew a lie when she heard it (this was several years ago). She also had many fellow students that hunted and the teacher and cop both found themselves quickly shouted down by students. Neither were happy with the dissent. During the 2008 Election a teacher gave my daughter's class a survey to let the kids know how they stand politicaly. One of the questions stated, "Do you believe that everyone has the right to own a gun?" My daughter wanted to the question changed to reflect that no one wants crazies, criminals or drug addicts armed. The teacher would no change the question and said if you are pro gun then you want everyone armed.
There is a great deal of indoctrination in our schools. The funny thing is most teachers know absolutely nothing about guns, the law or the politics around guns. They are just good little sheeple spouting the party line.
My wife is one of the few pro gun teachers in her school. She is a definate minority in her political views.

 

[Gouranga]

Wow. Patriotme, I would be talking to the principal IMMEDIATELY. First of all, they have no business pushing political agendas on kids. Second of all, they are teachers. They are supposed to be teaching things like Math, Science, History (like US History). I would like to see how the teacher rectifies her statement with the Bill of Rights.

I would also be talking to that officers Chief and the Mayor. The officer has a right to his/her opinion, however when they step into a classroom and make a statement like that they are representing the department, the city, and in part the board of ed (as they are sanctioned visitors of that school).

They have no right whatsoever to push political agendas in there no matter what the stance. Sorry to be all crazed on this but as a father of 4 I would be absolutely enraged by something who thinks they need to teach my kids morals or ethics in their classroom. To me, that is MY job. That they are teaching contrary to the US Constitution and in complete disregard for SCOTUS case history... completely unprofessionally incompetent, and unacceptable.

 

[winknplink]

Nah, just call the local news and let them know. Media is anti-biased, but they can't turn a story down for the life of them.

 

[robmkivseries70]

This country was founded to insure certain freedoms. In order to retain those freedoms it is important to err on the side of less government. No rule of law is going to prevent all tragedies, nor should any thinking person expect it to. The broad scope of the Bill of Rights speaks directly to this notion.
Best,
Rob

 

[GEM]

I grew up in NYC. There were situations where a gun would have been useful. Nor was I programmed.

Bah. Don't feed the troll, nor think the whole state is like that. TX didn't have a CHL law till the 1990's.

 

[car15bill]

I never said I wanted to get rid of handguns, I want to change they way people obtain a CCW.



No, It would've had to've been 4 people living in the county, could not have been his soldiers as that is a conflict of interest.

and if you notice, people generally don't take bolt action rifles on shooting sprees or robberies, the 4rnd capacity and slow rate of fire kind of hinder that. In fact, most criminals probably wouldn't even look at a rifle or shotgun because it is not gangster enough

lopezni, I was just talking to a LEO last week, getting fingerprinting done for my hazmat endorsement. I brought up the subject of the stupid NY pistol permit hoops, he agreed that they are worthless, his reasoning being, who is going to ask 4 people who would give them a BAD reference?

there is no law that says you can only ask 4 people, and if they turn you down, you cant have it. So you make 4 new friends at the bar. Then you pass it, and nothing better than NICS has been accomplished, other than the fact that you had to buy a couple of rounds at the bar for 4 people to back you up.

So how does this law do anything other than get in the way of people who are strapped for time to make friends(me)?

 

[9mm+]

Quote:
However I do have a problem with states that just pass them out to anyone.

Please name one state that passes handguns out to anyone.

Yes, please do. I want to move there immediately.

 

[budiceman]

lopezni wonder what your sales are? You wouldn't sell much around here. BB guns can put an eye out you know. What do you need a rifle, shotgun or fire extinguisher for when you when you can dial 911?
Read my signature!!

 

[Gouranga]

Yes, please do. I want to move there immediately.

x2...NC is nice but who can pass up free guns? Buying them for yourself is expensive.

 

[Cosmoline]

I think we've just seen a perfect example of anti-handgun programming.

 

[Werewolf]

Any state that simply uses the NICS check as a basis to sell someone a handgun. Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people. In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done. I don't think the judge would have accepted an Islamic Cleric as a reference. Florida gave Plaxico Burris a permit and he came to NY and shot himself with his pistol.



No, I live in NY, those things don't happen here.

also, I met some idiot who has no business owning any firearm say he was going to AZ to get a Glock and bring it back to NY. He said I'd like to see NY do something about that, I guess Plaxico needs a new roomate

Firearms dealer? Unlikely...

Troll? Probably.

Believes in freedom? NO effin' WAY!