Progressives

[GW Staar]

Agreed for a bullet feeder with handgun loads - there's even an argument -given an available station - for a bullet feeding die without the motorized system just to hand feed the smaller handgun bullet from above the die plate.

Where they exist - which isn't very many places - I consider bullet feeders for rifle cartridges on progressive machines as unproven technology. Unless or until a Jeunke machine equivalent can be used to demonstrate the bullet as loaded is unharmed by cycling around the drum and down the feed I'll avoid the expensive trial. The Jeunke style machines have shown that rough handling will move the components of a cup and core around enough to hurt balance and concentricity - that is lead cores are heavy and soft and so fragile.

I like the APS system myself - used to be no extra charge with CCI primers - these days maybe buying the preloaded APS strips and selling accumulated strips would cover the extra cost. Better perhaps to pay the extra cost and save the strips the strips won't last forever.

While RCBS and Hornady make rifle bullet feeders that work pretty good, they are expensive, so I have to agree that the handgun bullet feeders are more reasonable. Most progressive users do load handgun mostly on those.

For me, I have found RCBS's Gold Medal seaters the answer.....you just drop them into the dies above the die plate, and they are specifically made for progressives (read no special raised shell holders as was necessary on their competition dies.) That's way faster and easier on the fingers than placing bullets and keeping fingers safe under the die plate.

 

[Otto]

I overheard the sales person telling another customer that the progressives were not good for uniformity in rounds and that they were not recommended for rifle rounds because of flex in the plates...

That's sort of a half truth. Yes, progressives have shellplates and tool heads that introduce "slop" which can cause "runout" and inconsistent OALs.
But that doesn't necessarily mean you'll produce bad ammo. In fact, some bench rest shooters use progressives.
I have Dillon, RCBS and Hornady progressives but only because I load alot of pistol ammo. If I only loaded for rifle, I'd stick with a single stage. It's all about volume over precision.

 

[Nordeste]

As others have said, you need to evaluate what your ammo needs are. I usually shoot between 100-200 rounds per week (9 mm is all I shoot, for the moment). I could well have bought a Dillon 550, but decided on a Lee Classic Turret instead.

As for OAL variations, I am pretty happy to say that mine stay within the .002-.008" (at the most) range, depending on what brass (I sort them by headstamp) I use. I got the best results, so far, with Fiocchi brass.

 

[wlkjr]

I've found a little variation in OAL does not really matter that much.

 

[sexybeast]

I've found a little variation in OAL does not really matter that much.

I really agree. So many posters seem obsessed with OAL rather than other more important things. I never even measure OAL, I leave the as long as I can and shorten them up till they drop into each barrel. When the rounds fit in all of my guns of the same caliber them I'm good.
The only time it matters is when you are loading max powder.
Even an inexpensive press like my Loadmaster produces very consistent ammo. Sizing the case takes the most effort and thats what makes the shell plate flex.

 

[GJSchulze]

While RCBS and Hornady make rifle bullet feeders that work pretty good, they are expensive

I bought a bullet feeding die for my Hornady LnL. Instead of buying the expensive (and loud) collator, I bought some clear 7/16" plastic tubing off Amazon (from, of all places, Linen 'n' Things). A 9mm fits perfectly. I can fit about 53 147gr bullets in each one, which I do while watching TV. I then suspend the filled tube from the ceiling and put the other end into the die. Works just fine. I drilled holes in each end to put a hairpin (same as on primer pick-up tubes) through each end. That frees up one hand to pull the handle while the other feeds a case.

 

[SPW1]

Assuming you have similar needs to those of most shooters don't worry about ammo quality on a progressive. Ammo quality can be very good from each and every class of press or poor from each and every class of press.

Unless your trying for extreme precision on the level of bench rest or 1000 yard shooting you will most likely not see a bit of difference and even then there is no guarantee that you will. There are many other things that are far more likely to effect accuracy than the type of press you load on. If you want a progressive get a progressive.

As I see it the advantage of a progressive is much faster production once set up properly and the disadvantages, cost aside, are that it is slower to set up in the first place and it is a little easier to mess things up with a progressive because they are more complex in both design and operation. Minor equipment breakages or malfunctions either due to operator error or independent there of are much more common on progressives than on a single stage or turret press. Mistakes like powderless or double charged cases are more likely to occur on a progressive as well particularly if a beginner is operating it.

 

[Packnteacher]

Thanks, Archangel. That helps. What is the difference between the Lee Classic, Lee deluxe, and the just plain old Lee Turret? Any idea?

 

[jmorris]

You might check out this guys page, he has won more rifle competitions than anyone and uses a 550.

http://www.davidtubb.com/about-david-tubb

He doesn't use it progressively as the promethious powder measure is not machine mountable but "shell plate flex" doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[tcoz]

Thanks, Archangel. That helps. What is the difference between the Lee Classic, Lee deluxe, and the just plain old Lee Turret? Any idea?

This will explain the differences.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/

 

[jmorris]

Where they exist - which isn't very many places - I consider bullet feeders for rifle cartridges on progressive machines as unproven technology.

Mine have proven to work fine for my 3 gun ammunition.

 

[Foto Joe]

I looked at Lee and RCBS, but did not see alot of differance, but they were in the box...

Other than price??

I use a Lee Classic Turret A LOT and it's a good press. Are there better? Sure, but even for somebody who loads 1k rounds per month the Classic Turret works very well. I will say that if you're looking for a progressive, I personally would shy away from the Lee progressive.

You also asked about shotshell progressives. The answer is yes. I shot competitive trap for 15 years and used a highly modified MEC 9000 with a foot pedal actuator. I shot 300-500 targets per week 9 months out of the year for a decade or more. Other than having to re-build the MEC because it wore out I loved it. Typical time to load a box of 25 was 45 seconds, it took longer to put the shells into the box than it did to load them.

 

[Bush Pilot]

If I had a nickel for every time a gun shop "professional" said something stupid or false, I would be a rich man.

I think the only other professions that beat them for the number of faulse statements would be polititions and weatherman.

You missed car salesmen for BS stories.

To the OP, I know several shooters that use 550s for their match ammo and have good luck. Now, bench rest shooters are a different story.

 

[Packnteacher]

Thanks tcoz. very helpful. I would eventually have realized that the mfgr site would be more informative than cabelas or midway.