Gun dealers like all other humans vary in their degree of courtesy and manners, as do their employees. My own gun dealer is always fair, courteous, informative, and his employees are as well. They are also safety conscious. No wonder he has enlarged his shop twice since I have known him, and many of the other local dealers are often in their small, empty shops alone, with their grumpy helpers. I wonder why?
Proper Gun Dealer Etiquette?
- Thread starter Hold My Own
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Zoidberg523
Member
Fortunately, your opinion is just that. You certainly don't have discount the ideas of every other poster by simply saying that it is "stupid".
quote: "</rant over> I'm not sure, but I don't think I'll be going back to this place and it sucks because they have the lowest prices around. Maybe I'm over reacting?"
This was not as well handled as it could have been by the dealer, but I understand his wanting Mr. Buttinski to leave.
You said this dealer has "the lowest prices around"...and now you know one of the reasons. He's got to buy cheap, or there's no margin in it when he turns them around at the 'lowest prices around'.
This was not as well handled as it could have been by the dealer, but I understand his wanting Mr. Buttinski to leave.
You said this dealer has "the lowest prices around"...and now you know one of the reasons. He's got to buy cheap, or there's no margin in it when he turns them around at the 'lowest prices around'.
chiggerbyt
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The customer making the offer should have let the gun store and seller make their own agreement. After all, the seller came to the gunstore to sell his items not auction them off. The gun store isn't running a free gunshow or swap meet either. After the store has purchased the item for the agreed on price and the seller has left, then the other customer could have asked the store clerk to make an offer for the newly aquired items. He also could wait and see what the new price would be on the used items and go from there. As the OP said the gunstore has some of the lowest prices around. Just how I see it on that part.
As to the other issue of .223 VS 5.56. If the OP tells the gun store clerk he prefers to stick with 5.56 then it should be without further influence by the clerk to go with something else. The only exception would be if the customer was going to put something dangerous/incorret in their rifle thru lack of knowledge. How I see it on part 2.
As to the other issue of .223 VS 5.56. If the OP tells the gun store clerk he prefers to stick with 5.56 then it should be without further influence by the clerk to go with something else. The only exception would be if the customer was going to put something dangerous/incorret in their rifle thru lack of knowledge. How I see it on part 2.
SMMAssociates
Member
My favorite dealer will do the FFL paperwork (not really a bad idea if you don't know the other guy) on deals like that, but prefers you make them "elsewhere" and just come in for the paperwork. $30-ish, I think....
I once missed a beautiful J-Frame that a gal brought in for a quote. Her husband had passed on, and she didn't want it.... I'm standing there thinking "should I chime in" and decided that I shouldn't. Then she left, and I didn't think to follow her outside. Oooops....
I told the dealer later, and he said "thanks for thinking of me", meaning that (other than not chasing the gal) he appreciated me not getting into a bidding war....
Sidestepped one the other day - a guy was trying to buy a KelTec P3AT v.s. the similar Ruger. I'm not happy with Ruger for cloning the thing, but mostly felt that this guy wasn't up to the smithing that my P3 needed. Bit my tongue.... (Just an IMHO here....)
I can't comment on the .223 v.s. 5.56 thing.... I do handguns. My only long gun is a really cheap .22. Someday....
Regards,
I once missed a beautiful J-Frame that a gal brought in for a quote. Her husband had passed on, and she didn't want it.... I'm standing there thinking "should I chime in" and decided that I shouldn't. Then she left, and I didn't think to follow her outside. Oooops....
I told the dealer later, and he said "thanks for thinking of me", meaning that (other than not chasing the gal
) he appreciated me not getting into a bidding war....Sidestepped one the other day - a guy was trying to buy a KelTec P3AT v.s. the similar Ruger. I'm not happy with Ruger for cloning the thing, but mostly felt that this guy wasn't up to the smithing that my P3 needed. Bit my tongue....
(Just an IMHO here....)I can't comment on the .223 v.s. 5.56 thing.... I do handguns
. My only long gun is a really cheap .22. Someday....Regards,
Jaybird78
Member
My $.02
.223 in 5.56= works
5.56 in .223= rolling the dice
As far as the transaction goes. It was extremely rude to over bid in the dealers store. The dealer has every right to have someone leave for any reason. However what happened isn't illegal, my boss always says don't take in personal.....it's just business. Yes my boss can be an ass.
What if you had went to meet a seller at a parking lot to purchase a firearm, car, etc. and some other random guy overhears your conversation and starts in on bidding? How would you react? Illegal? NO VERY RUDE? YES
.223 in 5.56= works
5.56 in .223= rolling the dice
As far as the transaction goes. It was extremely rude to over bid in the dealers store. The dealer has every right to have someone leave for any reason. However what happened isn't illegal, my boss always says don't take in personal.....it's just business. Yes my boss can be an ass.
What if you had went to meet a seller at a parking lot to purchase a firearm, car, etc. and some other random guy overhears your conversation and starts in on bidding? How would you react? Illegal? NO VERY RUDE? YES
That's fine but not everybody is you.
You would not imagine how many times people walk in wanting one thing and it's wrong. I have sold plenty of .38spc only to have the customer come back and tell me it won't fit in his gun, which is a topbreak .38S&W. Or someone wants .25acp and when I hand him a box marked 6.35 Browning tells me it isn't what he wants.
I watched a guy come into a shop once with some guns to sell, and get some really low offers from the clerk (which I understand). I really wanted one of the pieces, but I waited until the guy turned down the shop offer and spoke to him outside as he was leaving. Got myself a pretty good deal, and the guy got more money than the shop had offered.
The dealer may have been right about the guys selling the guns...
but a dealer should never try to force a sell on a customer about anything, they always come across as a prick when they do let you know they know more than you "the customer". We have all been there with a dealer trying to sell you something that is just as good. A customer wants what a customer wants the dealer should just say we don't have what you want today but we can order for you if you would like and leave it at that. Customer service is not in the bloodline of a lot of dealers I've noticed especially at gun shows but thats another thread...
but a dealer should never try to force a sell on a customer about anything, they always come across as a prick when they do let you know they know more than you "the customer". We have all been there with a dealer trying to sell you something that is just as good. A customer wants what a customer wants the dealer should just say we don't have what you want today but we can order for you if you would like and leave it at that. Customer service is not in the bloodline of a lot of dealers I've noticed especially at gun shows but thats another thread...
If your standing close enough to be fixed on, and over hearing a transaction bewteen two other folks, you have your nose in business that doesn't concern you.
If your intent is to learn enough from being nosy to interject yourself into the transaction then, you are circling like a scavanger buzzard.
If you try to actualy make a move into the tranaction , then you are a jerk .
Following people out of the store isn't much better, as often times they will think a deal over and return. The dealer has all the investment into the store that brought the customer in to do business , other customers have no right to attempt to use that store to conduct their own business dealings.
And - NO , I do not own a store , I simple have a sense of self control when it comes to wanting something . I don't believe I have to be a jerk to come out OK , and I don't hang around the counter like a buzzard trying to sneak into a transaction to get something for myself.
If your intent is to learn enough from being nosy to interject yourself into the transaction then, you are circling like a scavanger buzzard.
If you try to actualy make a move into the tranaction , then you are a jerk .
Following people out of the store isn't much better, as often times they will think a deal over and return. The dealer has all the investment into the store that brought the customer in to do business , other customers have no right to attempt to use that store to conduct their own business dealings.
And - NO , I do not own a store , I simple have a sense of self control when it comes to wanting something . I don't believe I have to be a jerk to come out OK , and I don't hang around the counter like a buzzard trying to sneak into a transaction to get something for myself.
Well now I'm confused...
When I said I agreed with the dealer on "both" counts, I was thinking both guns?
AFA the ammo-I'm not familiar with Brown Bear (not sold in my neck o' the woods), but if it's steel case it ain't the same (226 vs 553 aside). I don't shoot any steel case ammo-seen way too many folks show up at the shop with stuck cases.
So...the dealer was right over the gun deal-not so much over the ammo?
When I said I agreed with the dealer on "both" counts, I was thinking both guns?
AFA the ammo-I'm not familiar with Brown Bear (not sold in my neck o' the woods), but if it's steel case it ain't the same (226 vs 553 aside). I don't shoot any steel case ammo-seen way too many folks show up at the shop with stuck cases.
So...the dealer was right over the gun deal-not so much over the ammo?
Robson4506
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We have this pawn shop here that has a guy that hangs around in there all the time and offers almost new prices on used guns.
I won't sell to him personally because I think he is reselling them to questionable buyers or he wouldn't offer 300 dollars for a 90% shotgun that goes for 275 new, or 600 for an 80% glock 19 you can order here new for less than that.
Anyhow to the original question. I think the dealer just got flustered and reacted. He didn't know if this was a shill the guy brought along with him, OR the guy was just trying to undercut his business, and either way, maybe both ideas at the same time hit him and he just lashed out.
I won't sell to him personally because I think he is reselling them to questionable buyers or he wouldn't offer 300 dollars for a 90% shotgun that goes for 275 new, or 600 for an 80% glock 19 you can order here new for less than that.
Anyhow to the original question. I think the dealer just got flustered and reacted. He didn't know if this was a shill the guy brought along with him, OR the guy was just trying to undercut his business, and either way, maybe both ideas at the same time hit him and he just lashed out.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
That caveat applies only to firing 5.56x45mm spec ammunition in a tight .223 chamber, not the other way around. As far as the rifle is concerned, if it has a 5.56x45mm chamber, then .223 and 5.56x45 are indeed completely interchangeable; it's only a problem if the rifle is specifically chambered in .223, and there actually a whole lot of those around. Most AR's have a 5.56 chamber, as does the Ruger mini-14 (even though it is rollmarked ".223 Remington" on the receiver, the dimensions are 5.56x45, not .223).
As far as steel case vs. brass case, that's fine, but I wouldn't get mad at the dealer or treat him as ignorant because he gave you what you wanted while showing you additional options to consider. A simple "no thanks, I prefer brass case" would work in that case.
GMFWoodchuck
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Same thing or not (they're not quite the same from a techical standpoint any 5.56 will eager accept .223 ammo. The difference is in the fact that 5.56 guns will accept longer bullets than what a 223 will.) however as a customer if I want 5.56 ammo I want 5.56 ammo. They're not the same thing. If your gun shoots Hornady ammo and you ask for it would you accept Remington ammo.?No. Same difference. What the dealer should have said was: We only have the 3 boxes, but we also have these. And been polite about it.
The bidding thing well...It was rude on both parties.
It sounds like they're not the most polite people in the world. I would go somewhere else to and get better service even if it cost more money. I get better service than that from Gander Mountain and they're just run of the mill people hired off the street making not much more than minimum wage.
The bidding thing well...It was rude on both parties.
It sounds like they're not the most polite people in the world. I would go somewhere else to and get better service even if it cost more money. I get better service than that from Gander Mountain and they're just run of the mill people hired off the street making not much more than minimum wage.
Ever consider that he didn't have 6 boxes, so he brought out what he had, hoping to please his customer? If he had 6 boxes, why wouldn't he just sell them to you? I think he was trying to be helpful and got offended when you insulted him.
On the gun deal, I can understand those who say the dealer was right, and technically he was within his rights to do what he did. But why does it matter? He made his offer, if someone can beat that offer, who cares? Presumably, if the offer was too low for the seller, the dealer could either let the gun go or offer more. Which is what he still can do. Or are you saying he has a "right" to lowball someone because they are uninformed as to their options? I visit a lot of pawnshops just to see if there are any good deals, and there never are! These guys are offering rough guns for almost new prices, which I KNOW they did not pay, so they are trying to make a very good deal both ways, on naive buyers and desperate sellers. If it's ok for them to take advantage, why not the other way around? If I were in a store and an old lady came in with a very valuable gun but was clearly uninformed and the dealer tried to take advantage, I would feel like a jerk to NOT jump in and help her out.
On the gun deal, I can understand those who say the dealer was right, and technically he was within his rights to do what he did. But why does it matter? He made his offer, if someone can beat that offer, who cares? Presumably, if the offer was too low for the seller, the dealer could either let the gun go or offer more. Which is what he still can do. Or are you saying he has a "right" to lowball someone because they are uninformed as to their options? I visit a lot of pawnshops just to see if there are any good deals, and there never are! These guys are offering rough guns for almost new prices, which I KNOW they did not pay, so they are trying to make a very good deal both ways, on naive buyers and desperate sellers. If it's ok for them to take advantage, why not the other way around? If I were in a store and an old lady came in with a very valuable gun but was clearly uninformed and the dealer tried to take advantage, I would feel like a jerk to NOT jump in and help her out.
bababooey32
Member
I think the point is that the dealer has a right to limit the business that is transacted in his store to HIS BUSINESS. Like someone else said, if you want to bid on guns, go to an auction or a gun show, but don't hover in MY establishment and try to pick-off people that came here to do business with me. Poor form at best, 100% jerk at worst. And, oh by the way, yes, he does have a right to lowball anyone that comes in the doors, just as they have a right to say "no" and walk back out.
You would feel like a jerk for not butting into someone else's business? My how times have changed. The self-important among us surely know better what is good for others. Without knowing the situation, inserting oneself into someone else's business dealings is rude, pretentious and arrogant. If I were the little old lady, I'd probably slap you in the face and kick you in the shins.
As for the ammo question, shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber is not a problem at all. The OP's contention that he could have "blown his hands off" doing so is 100% incorrect and without basis. That is what has caused the furor here. OP never indicated that he was after brass vs. steel, but rather he was concerned about his safety - which is misplaced concern.
Shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber is potentially problematic, and I would choose to avoid doing so.
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jonmerritt
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The customer wanted a certain product, that is all there is to it.
rocky branch
Member
No opinion on the ammo, but the guy trying to butt in on the deal inside the store needed a vertical buttstroke.
Maybe with hold the slash, but he was out of line.
Maybe with hold the slash, but he was out of line.
Zoidberg523
Member
No offense, and I agree with other information in your post, but - you yourself seem to be pretty hypocritical there.
As far as the comment that you were commenting on: There are, to me, extenuating circumstances (gun dealer in question, quality of firearms offered, quality of customer service, etc.). For instance, if I went into a gun shop (especially one of the seedy little places commonly found around here) and saw an elderly woman trying to sell off her deceased husbands firearms (possibly to pay bills/medical expenses not covered by her [non-existant?] social security), and some swindler of a dealer is trying to give her a pittance for some truly beautiful firearms, I am GOING to say something.
Every business owner has the right to make a living, as well as the right to make profits. They do not, however, have the right to take an unknowing customer for all that they are worth, especially when the dealer in question can very well guess what that will mean for the person that they are screwing. That sir, is not right.
It is called common decency, and today's world is sorely lacking in it.
SMMAssociates
Member
Zoidberg:
In the incident I mentioned above, the dealer offered the gal (same sort of "deceased husband" thing, but she'd become a Nun and, well, wasn't supposed to have the gun at all) a percentage less than retail. He has to cover all kinds of costs. For a round number, say $50 off what he probably could sell it for. I'd have gone that extra $50 without crying too much. IAC, this guy's trustworthy. He'll also take "consignment" - I'm not sure what he charges for that.
About dealing in the parking lot.... IMHO, once the potential seller has left the store, it's fair game.... The seller is either considering the quote, or has decided to go someplace else. If I step up and offer $50 more (again, just a round number), that was the dealer's profit, but he doesn't have to chance keeping it in inventory for a while, among other things. In this instance, he risked about $20 if I tried....
(Guess the point is "how long do you wait"? The location is really irrelevant, IMO.)
How would he like it? He about told me to "go outside".... We are friends, but it's still a business issue. I've helped him make a few sales, brought in customers, etc. I expect to be treated well, and have been....
(In the case I mentioned, somebody approaching this gal in the parking lot probably would have been told to take a hike. She seemed very skittish about the whole thing. I'm sure she saw me in the store, though. I'm kinda hard to miss....)
Short answer: Take it outside, and keep your trap shut unless the dealer's really doing a number on the seller....
Regards,
In the incident I mentioned above, the dealer offered the gal (same sort of "deceased husband" thing, but she'd become a Nun and, well, wasn't supposed to have the gun at all) a percentage less than retail. He has to cover all kinds of costs. For a round number, say $50 off what he probably could sell it for. I'd have gone that extra $50 without crying too much
. IAC, this guy's trustworthy. He'll also take "consignment" - I'm not sure what he charges for that. About dealing in the parking lot.... IMHO, once the potential seller has left the store, it's fair game.... The seller is either considering the quote, or has decided to go someplace else. If I step up and offer $50 more (again, just a round number), that was the dealer's profit, but he doesn't have to chance keeping it in inventory for a while, among other things. In this instance, he risked about $20 if I tried....
(Guess the point is "how long do you wait"? The location is really irrelevant, IMO.)
How would he like it? He about told me to "go outside".... We are friends, but it's still a business issue. I've helped him make a few sales, brought in customers, etc. I expect to be treated well, and have been....
(In the case I mentioned, somebody approaching this gal in the parking lot probably would have been told to take a hike. She seemed very skittish about the whole thing. I'm sure she saw me in the store, though. I'm kinda hard to miss
....)Short answer: Take it outside, and keep your trap shut unless the dealer's really doing a number on the seller....
Regards,
The guns for sale - the second guy was WAY out of line. While the guns are under the dealer's roof, any business regarding them is the dealer's. Period. It's a gun store, not a gun show. The dealer was completely justified in asking him to leave and was considerably more polite than was strictly necessary.
The ammo - the dealer only had 3 boxes of what you wanted, so he offered a substitute. If you don't care for it, don't buy it. No reason to take offense.
The ammo - the dealer only had 3 boxes of what you wanted, so he offered a substitute. If you don't care for it, don't buy it. No reason to take offense.
Zoidberg523
Member
Lol - I wasn't directly talking about the dealer in your story, but was just speaking in a general/hypothetical way.
SMMAssociates
Member
Zoidberg:
I knew that....
Just a bad habit to point a reply to the last guy on the page if there's nothing specific elsewhere....
Gotta quit doing that....
The dealer, btw, is a little different.... I brought Sammy in one afternoon (the gals wanted to see him), and he wet all over the counter.... The owner immediately hollered "GET THAT DARN DOG OUT OF MY STORE!". Next thing I know, he's got Sammy's leash and is giving him a tour of the store....
I got him one day, btw. I was having some problems with a gun, and he walked around the corner saying something like "well, you wouldn't have those problems if you bought decent ammunition".... I told him that "I would, if he'd start selling it." (Bet that cost me 10% for a while....)
Regards,
I knew that
....Just a bad habit to point a reply to the last guy on the page if there's nothing specific elsewhere....
Gotta quit doing that....
The dealer, btw, is a little different.... I brought Sammy in one afternoon (the gals wanted to see him), and he wet all over the counter.... The owner immediately hollered "GET THAT DARN DOG OUT OF MY STORE!". Next thing I know, he's got Sammy's leash and is giving him a tour of the store....
I got him one day, btw. I was having some problems with a gun, and he walked around the corner saying something like "well, you wouldn't have those problems if you bought decent ammunition".... I told him that "I would, if he'd start selling it."
(Bet that cost me 10% for a while....)Regards,
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