Crooked Dealers

[chuckusaret]

what are you basing that on chuck? How did you arrive at that figure? Can you substantiate your estimate of the gun's value or are you just pulling numbers out of your hat again?

MSRP $1,200 and average selling price for like used items on Gun Broker/Guns America/R&R Guns is +/- $900

 

[chuckusaret]

what are you basing that on chuck? How did you arrive at that figure? Can you substantiate your estimate of the gun's value or are you just pulling numbers out of your hat again?

Are you a gun collector? The S&W 27-2 with a serial # of S254XXX was manufactured in 1965. Yes, its 44 years old in the box with the sales slip and original box of shells that came with it. I am a great believer in that if you don't know what you are talking about don't talk.

 

[Cannonball888]

There was a crooked dealer and he sold a crooked gun,
He made a crooked dollar which he spent on crooked fun.
He bought a crooked frog which did a crooked hop,
And they all lived together in a little crooked shop.

 

[mbt2001]

That crooked shop with crooked tools
sold crooked guns to crooked fools
with crooked bullets and crooked clips
the crooked pirates fired at crooked ships


BTW, you rock for posting that Cannonball

 

[Blackbeard]

Ok, this is getting silly. Kelly's blue book for cars lists three values for every used car -- trade in, private party, and retail. They are low to high in that order. Is this an endorsement of dealer rip-offs? Must everything be sold at the private party price? No! A dealer isn't buying your car (or gun) for his personal use. He's buying it to sell again. He will always offer less than the private party price or he won't make a profit. If he doesn't make a profit, he goes out of business. It's that simple.

On the other hand, if you're buying a car (or gun), the dealer will always be more expensive than a private party price. So why does anyone ever buy from a dealer? The answer is convenience, and service. Sure you can buy what you want from a private party, if you can find it. Most of them only have one maybe two things for sale. Dealers, on the other hand, have a big selection and usually what you want is in stock and ready for delivery. That convenience comes at a price -- the difference between the private party price and the retail price. On the other hand, if you're selling for the private party price, you have to do the legwork to find someone who wants what you're selling. Dealers are always willing to buy just about anything -- but at their price. Convenience in exchange for money. Capitalism.

So, everyone PLEASE -- stop acting like there's only one fair price for a gun! If you don't like someone's price -- don't pay it! If you don't like their offer -- don't sell! Get it?

 

[Rockwell1]

I am a great believer in that if you don't know what you are talking about don't talk.

And yet I've seen a few times right here that you've spouted some statistic or number, been asked for a cite and backed down.

That's I tend to question your valueation of the gun.

And if the gun was worth 50% more than what you offered the the only difference between you and the dealer is one of degree.

 

[mbt2001]

So, everyone PLEASE -- stop acting like there's only one fair price for a gun! If you don't like someone's price -- don't pay it! If you don't like their offer -- don't sell! Get it?

+1

Moreover, I found this thread posted in another area on the board.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=444563

Basically he talks about a lady that sold 1,000 rnds 9mm for $85.00... I didn't here anyone lecturing him on stepping in and advising that the lady needed to be re-educated on selling prices.

Frankly, the problem I have is that it is a double standard. I have seen a lot of people buy good deals, but when it is brought to the dealer level (ammo or guns) and sell prices high or buy prices low, next thing you know you hear the "gouging" word.

 

[chuckusaret]

And yet I've seen a few times right here that you've spouted some statistic or number, been asked for a cite and backed down.

When????????

 

[chiggerbyt]

Later that afternoon the dealer's dad said "we almost had that one, wish he would have had more than $600 bucks on him."

 

[Rockwell1]

The "home invasions up in your area" thread comes immediately to mind

 

[Frank Ettin]

The guy asked the dealer what it's WORTH, not what he was willing to pay....

If someone wants an appraisal, he needs to go to an appraiser and pay for it. He should not expect an objective appraisal from a dealer for free.

The trade in used guns is an exercise in the free market. As in any free market, you will find normal puffery and "shading" of the truth. One should not expect complete candor from anyone. It is not a place for the naive.

 

[harmonic]

Does the seller bear no responsibility in this transaction?

It was an elderly gentleman who was obviously out of his element. What if that were your grandfather who was in need of cash? Would you make the same statement? He was about to get seriously screwed and somebody helped him.

I did the same for an elderly lady trying to sell a mint Python, and I mean mint, at a gun show and she had it priced ridiculously low. She didn't even know what she had as she had it labeled as a Smith and Wesson. I was tempted to lowball her even further, but such people deserve some consideration, don't you think? So I told her what she had and what they were currently going for. She raised the price. Not as much as I suggested, but she raised the price. Plus she got rid of the S&W sign.

Buyers are pretty "crooked" too.

And that makes it all alright, huh? Since there are evil workers out there, we're all justified in perpetrating evil? Cause that is a dangerous conundrum.

Kelly's blue book for cars lists three values for every used car

Your analogy is preposterous. The gun as described by the OP was, "a beautiful NIB blued 6" S&W 27-2." There is no market, nor current book of gun values, in America where that gun is worth only $250. If you think there is, I'll give you $250 for every such speciman you can produce.

 

[Baba Louie]

It's always interesting to see capitalism at work. Buy low, sell high... right?

Last year I bought one of the new S&W Nightguards, the 327, and gave it to my Son In Law as a HD gun. Last weekend he called me and asked if I minded if he traded it off for, something a little smaller.

"Go For It," I replied. "Let me know how your dealin' goes, OK?" I told him what I paid for it and left it at that (knowing the lesson soon to be learned)

He called back later that evening and was a little indignant. The guy only offered him $560 on a trade in (I'll call it 66% value... not bad actually). I asked him "Whadyaget in trade?"

"Nothing. Was he ripping me off?"

We then proceeded to discuss wheelin' and dealin', making a livin', keeping the doors of his favorite (maybe not now) gunshop open, price of ammo & guns currently, dickerin', FTF sales, throw in to boot, etc. (whence does "throw in to boot" come from, I wonder?)

Now that's one thing. chuck's experience/situation was another. I'd figure from the $250 ?offer? proferred that the dealer was thinking he could move it for $750ish, maybe some wiggle in there. Markup on used guns (in good shape) v. markup on new being somewhat higher, yes? (typically). Ya wanna pay for a real appraisal? That ain't free either IIRC.

Good on ya chuck. "What's it worth?" To whom? is the right frame of mind to keep when asking or having been asked that question.

To chuck (and others) the 27-2 was worth a lot more than to this guy who plans on holding it for awhile then hopefully moving it without too much money being held up too long. LNIB isn't NIB or pristine/unturned. Used is another matter altogether be it lightly used, terribly used & abused or just one cylinder thru it.

Wonder how much $$ the old man had tied up in it? What did they sell for new back in the day? (not that I know he bought it new back in the day or anything... just wondering)

Caveat Emptor works both ways.

Never did find out what son in law got (if anything). Maybe I should have given the kids one of my Glocks... ya think? Also wonder if the old man in the OP could actually get $1K from a buyer in the amount of time he has left. Maybe in an auction... maybe not.

 

[mbt2001]

It was an elderly gentleman who was obviously out of his element. What if that were your grandfather who was in need of cash? Would you make the same statement? He was about to get seriously screwed and somebody helped him.

Just listen to yourself amigo... IF IT COULD SAVE JUST ONE LIFE!!

Don't stand on one principle and then fall on another. No offense to old people, but being old isn't an excuse for anything. An explanation maybe. This whole idea of protected classes in society is getting out of control.

I was tempted to lowball her even further, but such people deserve some consideration, don't you think? So I told her what she had and what they were currently going for. She raised the price. Not as much as I suggested, but she raised the price. Plus she got rid of the S&W sign.

Good for you. The Golden Rule and all. But have you thought of the other side of that coin? You "help them" with the price and it doesn't sell? It doesn't take a genius to ask for a high price, but go and look at some of the "gouging" threads.

Chicken+Egg = The death of good deals...

Maybe we need a price committee in Washington to stop all of this nonsense, eh Comrade?

 

[amd6547]

I have learned over the years to ignore the dealers behind the tables at gun shows, and the minions they have roaming the crowd. Unfortunately, there are those, perhaps like the old guy in this thread, who get reeled in...Here, they have ads on TV for our gun shows, and they always announce that you should bring in your old guns, dealers will "evaluate them".

 

[texnutah]

The dealer would have a great market for the gun as he was at a GUN SHOW, so trying to rationalize the "not much demand" statement does not work. Based on the info provided (an no, I have no sorted thru 4 pages of this to verify) we don't know if the senior citizen was going to sell the gun or not. We only know that he asked for an appraisal. I don't have a problem with dealers making money, but when someone asks for an appraisal, they are asking the value of the item, not "what will you give".

Randy

 

[chuckusaret]

The "home invasions up in your area" thread comes immediately to mind

I never went back to that tread. The info came from my daughter and I am not a sicko like you, I don't require proof from her.

 

[harmonic]

Just listen to yourself amigo... IF IT COULD SAVE JUST ONE LIFE!!

Don't stand on one principle and then fall on another. No offense to old people, but being old isn't an excuse for anything. An explanation maybe. This whole idea of protected classes in society is getting out of control.

mbt: Your logic is unsound, aka, the fallacy of a false analogy. Helping an elderly man in his time of need is not the same thing as calling for the abolition of firearms.

One does not lead to the other and your suggestion only makes you look ridiculous and uninformed.

But be my guest and eviscerate anyone you can in the name of profit. Maybe someday someone will do the same to you.

I'll continue to try to help those who are weaker.

 

[mbt2001]

throwing out the comments doesn't mean they don't apply. You are advocating a protected class... Same as children to whom the rules and risks of society do not apply.

I'll continue to try to help those who are weaker.

Please do not get morally outraged here... This isn't about morals. This is about capitalism. If you get a $10K car for $5K you got a good deal didn't you? But by your (and others here apparently) own logic good deals extend only to when you buy what you want. Everything bought from you must be bought at a premium...

 

[Rockwell1]

I am not a sicko like you,

Ad hominem Attack: Noun, an attack made against a debater's character in order to draw attention away from the weakness of the attacker's argument.

 

[Blackbeard]

If someone wants an appraisal, he needs to go to an appraiser and pay for it. He should not expect an objective appraisal from a dealer for free.

And you should never trust an appraisal from someone with a conflict of interest -- especially a free one.

I smell a business opportunity here. If you're so conerned about people getting ripped off at gun shows, you could rent some space and do objective appraisals for the attendees for $5 per gun. Of course, you won't buy or sell any guns because you want to remain objective and unbiased.

 

[KarenTOC]

I've learned 3 things from this thread:

1. capitalism confuses some people
2. analogies confuse some people
3. there's nothing to learn from this thread

edit: I agree with everything mbt2001 has said in this thread.

 

[harmonic]

throwing out the comments doesn't mean they don't apply.

You made two separate points in your earlier post, and neither have anything to do with the other.

But you have a nice day, anyway.

 

[harmonic]

I've learned 3 things from this thread:

1. capitalism confuses some people
2. analogies confuse some people
3. there's nothing to learn from this thread

And I've learned that people with absolutely nothing to say insist upon saying it, anyway.

 

[rbernie]

And on that note, this one is done.