Crooked Dealers

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chuckusaret

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I attended the Gun Show here in West Palm Beach over this weekend. I was shocked at the outragious prices dealers/sellers are asking for their weapons. I had the pleasure of watching a well known dealer in this area attempt to rip a 80 year old senior citzen off. The old fellow walked up to the booth and asked the dealer if he bought weapons and the answer was yes. The old guy takes a beautiful NIB blued 6" S&W 27-2 .357 Magnum out and asked the dealer what it was worth. The dealer does a 2 to 3 minute inspection on the revolver and without even a smile says $250 at best, reason the 357 is not in demand. I stepped in and told the old guy it is worth far more than that and I offered him all the cash I hand on me $600. He then asked what I thought it was worth. My guess, about $1,000 to $1,200 . He asked for my telephone number, thanked me and left. Needless to say I am not liked by that dealer.
 
So how was the dealer crooked? He told the seller the price he was willing to pay for the gun.

Could the seller not pick up a gun bible and look up his own weapon?

Or have it appraised prior to attempting to sell it?
 
I'm with chuckusaret on this one I've had nothing but trouble with dealers at gun shows in my area. It seems that they feel if they can take advantage of you that they will. I took my german mauser modle 98 to a gun show to see if I could sell and a dealer tried to buy it off me for $90. I know the guy has to make a profit, but where do you draw the line?
 
but where do you draw the line?
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Where ever you choose, you weren't forced to sell at 90.00$ right?

It is incumbent upon the seller to have some idea of the value of the item for sale.
 
I don't agree that the dealer was "crooked".

Unscrupulous, yes, but he didn't break his word or cheat on a deal. Doing so would have made him a crook. Real crooks on the dealer side of the table sell guns as one thing when they're something much less altogether and lie to potential sellers about what they have to convince them they're wrong about what they've brought to sell. You do see real "crooks" at shows in that case and no one but the other crooks have anything to do with them.

OTOH, I spend a lot of time with dealers at shows helping them work their tables and the scrupulous ones will look to purchase for 50-70% of what they think they can resell a gun for. They patiently explain that they have to purchase the gun at a price that allows them to resell for a profit. Often they'll tell a guy toting a piece to "walk it around" to see if he can get the asking price from someone who's also walking the aisles, but come on by before leaving if it hasn't sold.

The unscrupulous ones will consciously lie to the unsuspecting guy across the table and tell them their gun is worth next to nothing while knowing they can flip it for 200%.

The argument for paying as little as possible for any gun regardless of what it's worth is that some you've bought are going to sell for nearly no profit and the others make up for that. "It all evens out.:scrutiny:

The guys I work with think it's just bad karma to take advantage of someone beyond a certain point.:)
 
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There's a HUGE difference between trying to make a profit, and trying to get as much out of a person that you don't believe will know the difference. One is business, and one is extreme dishonesty - and nobody should be trying to pass one off as the other.
 
Yes a dealer is entitled to make as much profit as he can, but I don't believe there is any law that says we have to like it. And I believe chuckusaret had every right to speak out as he did. He offered up his own money too, which means he was at least 'invested' in his stance. The dealer could have counter offered if he wished.

Kudos to you chuckusaret for speaking out as you did. Nothing like a little competition in the marketplace; I like free enterprise.
 
One is business, and one is extreme dishonesty
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no, it's still the same - just an extremely dishonest (or dishonorable) business ethic. Oh well. Welcome to capitalism. Most gun shops I know are not well-liked for customer service. They have to compete with the internet nowadays, who can underprice them even with shipping and transfer charges at times, and beat them on ammo pricing, diversity in inventory, etc. Needless to say the shops aren't winning. Guns are a lucrative business; it ain't Wal-Mart or wholesale.
 
I don't mind dealers being focused on making money and I certainly have never confused them with the gentlemen I've had the priviledge to know for 50 years. These gentlemen - and women - have always been of the mind that it's best if a fair deal is reached for both parties. Sure, you might try to get the best of a trade or a sale, but you don't steal or try to squeeze every penny out of a deal - especially from old folks, widows and people who just don't know. It has to do with honor and being able to live with yourself.

But like I said, I don't expect dealers to focus on anything except making money. Buyer beware and all that.

And that's why I'm always happy to meet a dealer who really cares. You can tell the ones who were raised right. They have to make a living, but they go about it the right way.

John
 
And then there is the guy with the old folding trigger pinfire who thinks he has a Colt Paterson and will sell it to the dealer for only $100,000. When the dealer suggests that the value is more like $100, the guy goes away cursing crooked dealers.

Jim
 
I think the first response is most appropriate though

if you are trying to buy, sell or trade and don't know what it's worth, then it's your own fault.
 
I prefer to let the seller set the price. If its a good, great or decent price I just pay it. If it is close I will try to deal on it and sometimes you make a deal and sometimes you do not.
 
That dealer's a liar, a fraud and it's too bad some on the board are as unscrupulous as he is to defend him.

The guy asked the dealer what it's WORTH, not what he was willing to pay. A NIB M-27, much less any .357 today not in demand? Bovine Scatology. It'd either end up on the table for $900 or else end up on gunbroker with a $1000 reserve.
 
A thousand dollar gun? Sounds to me like it would be worth the seller's time to invest in a price guide.

If you had a Rolex and you wanted an appraisal would you take it to a Jeweler or a Pawn Shop?
 
I've been experiencing that sorta thing just about anywhere that has firearms lately.
At the Pasadena, Tx gunshow today, a dealer had the Lee 50th Ann. reloading kit (cheapest, for beginners) on the table for $177. You can get it from Lee's (official website) for $135..or if you shop around you can get it for $85 off fmreloading.com. Brand New.

I told him so and asked why he was asking so much more than MSRP, he got really pissed off and walked away.



I understand supply/demand and trying to make as much profit as possible, but tricking first time buyers just because you can doesn't mean you should. I thought that's why we have the BBB?
 
The dealer flat-out lied by telling the guy that there was no demand for a .357 revolver. That right there ought to tell you what kind of person the fellow was dealing with.
 
You can't lie and be honest at the same time. I have no problem with someone making a buck. This guy went for the jugular and I'm glad someone was there to stop him! If you can't see that then you are probably just as bad of a person.
 
First rule of selling ANYTHING:


NEVER ask the person you want to buy an item to tell you what it is worth.


While the dealer was unscrupulous, he wasn't crooked.


While the seller wasn't completely an idiot, he was naive.

Goes both ways...


-- John
 
I have a massive problem with this thread.

I constantly here people talk about how they bought a model 10 or 19 for $200.00 and I read the resulting posts of "Great Buy", "Good Job", "Do they have more?"...

So, what is the difference? If you can get a good deal, can't the gun dealer? Why is OK for you to get a good deal? Do you often correct "the man" when you see him selling too low?

The free market works on WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR. So that means that the Seller / Buyer have to Sell / Buy based on the prices that they believe they can get for the item. Since when is that crooked? You have choice in what you do and how you do it.

I stepped in and told the old guy it is worth far more than that and I offered him all the cash I hand on me $600. He then asked what I thought it was worth. My guess, about $1,000 to $1,200 .
Click to expand...

If you believe the gun was worth $1,000 why didn't you offer $900? Why is it OK for you to buy a gun at a drastically reduced price??? Isn't it then a question of you were willing to pay more than the gun dealer, so YOU would have gotten the deal? Isn't that then FAIR? Whoever wants it the most gets the item???
 
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