Crooked Dealers

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Being honest about what the gun is worth, what you are willing to pay, and what the current market is for such an item is the right thing to do. I know that those who treat me well and are honest get my return business faithfully. I like being honest, I like being treated honestly. Honesty and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive, people just use capitalism as an excuse to justify their unseemly behavior.
 
What does all the cash on him have to do with the price of beer??

He OFFERED $600, forget the qualification. That wasn't the point in any event. If you take the kind of logic that is being discussed in this and other threads and take it to the extreme, then there is ONE price that everyone has to sell at all the time regardless of market conditions.

Edit:

How do you know that the gun dealer didn't offer all the cash he had on him???
 
You are proving yourself to be a noob. This is THR, acting like a first grader ain't the way we play here.

Just because someone offered a low price doesn't make them a crook. Honesty doesn't work in that way. I wasn't there I don't know exactly what was said, but if it went like the below then tell me how the dude was dishonest:

Coot - "I want to sell my gun, you interested?"
Dealer - "Might be, can I see it."

Dealer inspects gun

Dealer - "I will give you $250 for it, what do you think."
chuckusaret - "Listen, I will pay $600 cash now if you will sell it to me..."

Tell me where the dealer lied, or was crooked??? Had the coot gone to Rosie O'Donnell to sell the gun, he wouldn't have gotten $1.00 for it.

Things are only WORTH what someone else is willing to pay. Guns / Gold / Stock, they don't have an intrinsic value. When you got to the car dealership don't you negotiate, take advantage of specials and what not? What's the problem with getting a good deal. Why is OK when YOU get one as a consumer, but when the SELLER gets a good deal that is BS...

I don't think the dealer acted ethically, but then again he didn't get the gun, so his gambit didn't work. That is the price you pay for offering to low a price.
 
Telling someone a gun is not worth much because that particular caliber is not in demand (knowing full well that the caliber is in HIGH demand) is outright lying. If the dealer had merely said, "I'll give you $250 for it," then no harm, no foul. The owner could have accepted/rejected as he saw fit. A bit of puffery is one thing (eg, "this is a great gun!") But to blatantly lie about material facts, especially to an 80-year old person who may be at a bargaining disadvantage because of his age, borders on criminal conduct. In Arizona, we have statutes that specifically make it a crime for someone to take advantage of elderly people in this way. I'm not saying the old guy was mentally incompetent, but it sounds like this dealer crossed WAY over the line. Making a profit is one thing; lying to vulnerable people to do so is entirely another thing. Glad it worked out.
 
But to blatantly lie about material facts
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Semi's are hot right now, maybe the .357 isn't "in demand" like semi's are.

What is the point? Compared to what he is selling, his target market, location or whatever then the .357 may not be in demand. I don't have access to that kind of information, but this is a negotiation...

For instance, have you ever been buying something and said "I CAN GET THAT CHEAPER AT XXXX."? In order to get good deals on negotiations, there are a lot of "tricks" that people play that are commonly accepted. One of them, is refusing to sell / buy at the given price...

Just saying
 
I read the post and believed everthing the OP said. You however want to add your own version.

The very instant the guy said that a .357 was not in high demand everything was a lie after that.

You can call me a noob all you want. If you can't see the dishonesty in the dealers actions now, then you never will.
 
The very instant the guy said that a .357 was not in high demand everything was a lie after that.
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COMPARED to the Semi auto's it may not be in high demand... Compared to his target market, usual customers, location and so on he (THE DEALER) may not be able to sell a .357 quickly.

I have low balled people before because I DIDN'T WANT to buy it, but if I could get it for a STUPID GOOD PRICE, then I would take it. Otherwise I wasn't interested...
 
The law looks out for those who look out for themselves, sometimes the sleeping but never the acquiescent. The problem in this case is not the superior position of the dealer but the appropriate sympathy for the old man. Profit is certainly appropriate, even the American way. Taking unfair advantage of others is turns the dealer in to just another used care salesman lying about the mileage on his car.
 
Guy asks a dealer what his pricey M27's worth.

Dealer tells him $250 LIE!

Tells him .357's and M27's aren't in fashion. LIE!

Dealer's a liar and a fraud.
 
I had the pleasure of watching a well known dealer in this area attempt to rip a 80 year old senior citzen off.
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I would agree with that summation. He indeed did try to rip him off which makes him a crook in my book.

And please spare me the "whatever the market will bear" platitudes. The fact is that there are many, many unscrupulous gun dealers out there who rank just below used car dealers in professional integrity.

Was his offer illegal? No. But he's still a crook, no different than three finger Eddy on West Broadway in Louisville, Ky, who will sell you a $50 watch for $300. "Well, somebody bought it, and so that's what the market will bear."

Yeah, right.
 
mbt2001, like I said you will never get it, but that ain't no big deal.:(

Bottom line is buyer and seller beware. There is a lot of difference in capitalism and honesty.:D

You can be both a capitalist and honest!
 
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I don't get it

Does the seller bear no responsibility in this transaction?

Before I go any further we have no idea how the seller reacted to the offer or what he did or didn't know because Chuck interupted their conversation to try to out bid the dealer.

I sold a couple of handguns a few months back and you can bet I looked around first. I looked on gun broker I looked at some reviews. I got an idea of the going rate, cut my asking price 25.00$ and sold the guns.

Why does the seller not bear similar interest in selling his gun?

Why blame the greedy, eeeeevil, capitalistic- running- dog -of- Wall -Street of a dealer for not getting out a price guide, doing our seller's homework for him and throwing in an extra hundred just to be a nice guy?
 
First of all, I feel that it is rude for someone to butt into someone's negotiations, once the parties cannot get into an agreement and leave, that is when I feel its appropriate.

Next, I believe that such revolver is not worth the $1,000 to $1,200 as posted by the original poster, but rather $750. I've seen several .357 magnum revolvers with barrels => 6 inches rotting at a dealer's counter for ages marked at very good prices. In my area, .357s <= 4 inches moves quicklyl, anything over that rots.
 
Buyers are pretty "crooked" too.

I had a LNIB BFR in .500 mag for sale for awhile. Had plenty of guys try to buy it for $150 - $300 because it wasn't in "demand" and "no one wants that".
 
Most of you guys that read my comment did not comprehend what I said. Most of you have twisted my comments to make me out to be the bad guy.
1st. The 80 + year old guy asked for the value of the revolver
2nd The revolver NIB has a value of +/- $1,000
3rd I told the guy his revolver was worth in the $1,000 range
4th But before he gave it to the dealer for 250 I would give him all the cash money I had on my person and that was 600 and change
5th It appeared to me that the old guy was in need of fast cash.

Nuff said
 
Buyers are pretty "crooked" too.

I had a LNIB BFR in .500 mag for sale for awhile. Had plenty of guys try to buy it for $150 - $300 because it wasn't in "demand" and "no one wants that".
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Fancy that.

You mean to tell me that people are people no matter on which side of the counter they stand? Some good, some bad, most all 'looking to get a deal'?

What a revelation!

To the OP - I think ya done fine. You had a moral compass and you followed it. It may not make you popular, but so what? But I don't think that the buyer was unreasonable, either. Most folk, buying as a dealer or as a private seller, will low-ball the seller to feel out the deal.

Capitalism is what it is. Those who want price controls (overt or covert) aren't capitalists.
 
There is a lot of difference in capitalism and honesty
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Capitalism tends to ENFORCE honesty to a degree. Take this is an object lesson. The Dealer did not get the gun... If he wanted it, he should have bid a higher price.

WORTH...

What is your car worth? To the insurance company it isn't worth much. To me, however, it is worth the cost to REPLACE IT. The idea of worth depends on what you will pay to get it. To the gun dealer, the gun was worth $250.00. I don't understand how that is a crime. No one told the Seller he HAD to sell at that price.

Frankly, if you go on gunbroker.com right now and look at that very model, you see guns ranging from $500 - $1,500 approx. WHICH ONE IS THE RIGHT PRICE??? Is everyone that sells that gun for $500.00 a crook??? Unless they are selling at a loss, they would have to be right?

I don't believe in "screwing" people to the wall, but what is wrong with getting a good deal? Since when should that dealer be required to pay a premium for something he is not sure he wants? Who is taking the risk here? What if the gun had been reblued and he noticed, and our hero didn't; wouldn't that affect the value? There are a thousand different iterations and to call the guy a crook is wrong.

He didn't lie, cheat or steal. He did offer a low price, which is his right. He did say that .357's are not in demand, which statistically speaking could be right. He could have said, I don't have a lot of demand for .357's, so I will give you $250.00. In any event, the system worked, because the gun didn't sell and will go to someone who pays a higher price.

What motivated the OP to step in? Well, HE made an offer. I didn't just step in and advise that the gun was worth more. He actually made an offer, so HE hoped to get a good deal. But his idea of good deal was HIGHER in price than the Dealer's was...

No question the dealer was an a** h***e, but I swear to any of you, in a free society, I would fight and die for you to be able to be an A** H***E without governmental interference. :p
 
After reading some of these posts I think and feel that the dealer was COMPLEATLY WRONG!!!!!!! some people dont have any morals at all and trying to ripoff a the elderly shows what kind of a person he or she is.This is Someting that bothers me verry much and im glad that there was someone who is honest enough to step up to the plate to let the older feller know the truth. I cant stand a lier and a theif and they usualy come in pairs.....
 
The revolver NIB has a value of +/- $1,000
Click to expand...

What are you basing that on Chuck? How did you arrive at that figure? Can you substantiate your estimate of the gun's value or are you just pulling numbers out of your hat again?


It appeared to me that the old guy was in need of fast cash
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Obviously not, otherwise he would have sold one of you the gun.
 
"First of all, I feel that it is rude for someone to butt into someone's negotiations"

So if one of your coworkers was on line at the office negotiating with a Nigerian scammer for his or her part of a large fortune you wouldn't butt in? Suppose that dealer had told the elderly gent that it wasn't even a real S&W but an imitation that was only worth $75? I know I'd call him on it.

If a dealer offers me way less than what my gun is worth I am not offended. I've been around. If a dealer tries the same stunt on an elderly person, widow, severely disabled vet, etc., well, they're a dirtball.

John
 
Actually the dealer did lie when he said .357 mag is not in demand. And while he technically didnt do anything illegal he still is a dirt bag for trying to rip off an old man.
 
Two things stand out to me that leads me to believe the dealer was dishonest.

1. The guy asked him what it was WORTH not what he would give him for it.

The dealers response was geared to take advantage of the old fella, so in my book he is dishonest.

Granted, it's a buyer/seller beware kind of market BUT, if some of these guys want to have customers return when all the hype subsides, they would do well to treat their customers with a certain amount of honesty and respect.

2. The buyer flat out lied about the .357 not being in demand! :what: I can't imagine how he could make such an outrageous comment and keep a straight face!

Even the lowly .25 and .32 have a demand in the current market place! Again, it was his way of trying to take advantage of someone in order to make an EXCESSIVE profit!

While I understand the nature of business is to buy low and sell high, I have a problem with those who take advantage of someone in order to make an unreasonable profit.

If you say that you disagree let me ask you this; Did you ever complain about the high price of fuel when gas was over $4.00 gal.?
:confused:

I applaud the OP for coming to the aid of a potential victim of this (IMO) liar.
 
Saying the guy is a jerk is one thing, calling him dishonest is pushing it, calling him a crook is wrong...

Other comments edited out...
 
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