proper use of a PGO shotgun?

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AcceptableUserName

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other than just hip shooting. I'd like to learn more about this. I'm okay with mine I suppose but I think I could be better. Don't wanna start a debate of pgo vs. full stock, cause you and I both know which is better and why. However, my main hd weapon is a pgo wingmaster - for mobility and because I have small hallways and rooms and such, abnormally so even. Is there any articles, dvds, courses etc out there on this?
 
I don't know about formal PGO training, I suspect what there is of it consists of dealing with offending locks and hinges.

However I know from when I familiarized myself with a friend's "PGO" {actually folded stock} shotgun, that holding it at about 3/4 arm extension while aiming down the sights worked a heck of better than shooting from the hip. I was using full power buck and 1 oz slugs and never came close to having problems controlling it let alone getting my teeth knocked out and all those other things you hear of.
 
There is no proper way to use a PGO shotgun. Period. I suppose you could use it for contact shooting. Just get a regular stock. If you MUST carry a PGO shotgun, consider it less useful than a pistol.
 
The proper way is the one that lets you hit the target without inflicting un necessary pain or suffering on your self.

Myself, I use a push pull technique to spread the recoil between both arms.....push forward with the front hand and pull back with the rear.

I've never tried a pistol grip foreend but I could see where this would make the push pull technique even easier.

Other things to consider to help aiming would be perhaps a red dot or laser but with practice you can develop good instinctive shooting up close and it's not hard to get on the bead or rifle sights once you have your technique worked out.
 
:rolleyes:

Folks, let's just try to answer the question.

AUN, I've found that bring the PGO up to eye level works. As mentioned, the way it worked for me was to keep my elbows bent, push forward with my weak hand, pull back with my strong hand - like I'm trying to pull the SG apart. This worked pretty well for controlling recoil.

If you try this, dry fire it first to get used to it, then use birdshot to get your live fire in. I don't recall using slugs, so your on your own there. :)
 
I really don't know if there is any proper way to use a pistol gripped shotgun

other than in movies like "terminator".:D

Seriously, it is very difficult for most folks to use with high pressure loads and if you go on you tube and type in pistol gripped shotguns, you can see what happens if you don't put a gorrilla grip on that ting.

A shoulder but stock is really what is needed IMHO for proper control of a defensive use shotgun.

It's enough to control a full size standard bbl. length field gun with heavy loads.:D
 
Go to a shotgun class taught by Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain, John Farnam, the crew at Gunsite, Clint Smith or the like. I think you'll find your answer there.

Failing that, if you insist on handicapping yourself with a PGO shotgun due to the mistaken idea that it's a good thing to "clear" your house all by your lonesome with no training, no FoF experience, etc., then at least 1) put a good laser on your PGO shotgun so you can tell where it's pointed, and 2) practice with it a lot.

JMHO, YMMV, and for the record, I have done both of the above in the past (the class, and the laser on a PGO shotgun).

lpl
 
I agree definitely it is a big handicap in most situations. If we're talking IDEAL combat shotguns in most situations I'd definitely opt for a full stock, 18" gun with full mag tube, simple as that... Let me state my logic behind having a pgo (I also have and PREFER full-stock guns, just not in my house) designated for hd.

I have a very small 2 bedroom, one level house. Any confrontation in an hd scenario will be at distances of 15 feet at the absolute MOST. The main hallway in my house is about 4 feet wide. So we are ALMOST talking about contact shooting. In this event, I won't be doing any house clearing. In fact I know better not to attempt it. I feel the pgo gives me the best mobility/space balance in a gun that I can A, lay right by my nightstand and B hole up in a corner/small room with while I try and assess the threat/call the police. I'm not one of the mall-ninja crowd that thinks you can point a shotgun in a general direction and get a vital hit....however within a certain distance and a certain amount of enclosed space, at least to the degree I am in my home, I feel pretty comfortable with space vs. the aiming disadvantages of the pgo. Some might ask why I don't just opt for a pistol? Simple, the only pistol I own is a .45 and I could see the .45 loaded up with Golden Sabers or Starfire penetrating my outer walls easier than some reduced recoil 00 I bought specifically for the pgo. Maybe I'm wrong...
 
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We've gone down this path before. You're NOT going to go room to room clearing the house and, if you did, a PGO shotgun would be the LEAST preferable gun to do it with. Worried about the neighbors? Don't shoot a shotgun that you aren't SURE will hit the target. This leaves you with a shoulder-stocked gun.

There are places where a PGO might help you. I carried one in a back scabbard when fishing in Alaska. It was lightweight and packed enough punch to discourage bears or wound my fishing partner so the bear has something to chew on while I'm escaping.
 
I have two pistol-gripped shotguns. I've had them since I've found them, about fifteen years ago. One is fun to shoot, so it stays as-is. I've finally found a proper stock for the other.

The only proper uses that I've found for PGOs are firing flares, making loud noises, and, on finding the right grip, having fun!
 
Mossberg used to make a Camper PGO pump in .410 gauge and that would make a handy little weapon for HD use at close range .:)

It's a gauge that is manageable and at close range, very effective.:)

I agree that walking to a perp instead of letting a perp walk to you spells death since you are on PERPs terms when you do that.:what:

But, tactics aside, I would familiarize myself with my shoulder stocked short barrelled shotgun first.;)

I don't believe I've ever seen any troops in "Nam, the Gulf War, Iraq, or Afghanastan use PG shotguns and for very good reason. ;)

All of the trench guns I've seen, past, present and future, are designed with full stocks.;)

All Hollywood guns are back@$$wards of reality and debunking myth seems to be the biggest hurdle when dealing with folks new to firearms.:rolleyes:

I have an old Stevens "Westpoint 167H" that was cut down to 20" and retains the full stock.

I got it from a friend who goes up to the mountains to see his folks and he brought the Stevens home and I traded a single barrel for it .

I cleaned it up, installed new springs, reblued and deburred all sharp edges and shot it to make sure it would work and am happy with it as a home defense shotgun.

I have two other shotguns and would not hesitate to use them in a pinch, but the ol' Stevens is solid and feels god to my shoulder.:D
 
First, hold the pistol gripped shotgun with your arm at ANY angle up to 45 degrees off axis. Notice something? Where is your elbow? Is it further back than the butt of a shoulder stock would have been? Hmmmm. Funny thing about a PGO shotgun, the only advantage it has is when the gun is NOT being used... that is when it is stored. The FIRST thing you'd do with a folding stock is to extend it.

A PGO shotgun is USELESS for actual shooting. Try to hit the target when your wrist isn't in a 30-45 maximum arc behind position behind the gun. Fat chance you're going to HIT your target unless you're at contact distance.

A conventional Pistol is 10 times more effective.
 
Other than just hip shooting...
Click to expand...

If it's an AR-type vertical grip, get a tight grip and lock your wrist right under your right pec muscle. Keep your left elbow tight to your left side. You want to keep the firearm as tight to your body as you can so that it can't be taken away from you in a skirmish. Keeping it tight also makes the recoil a part of your upper body and not just of your hands/wrists and it allows you to move and aim the weapon faster. The farther from your body a weapon is, the longer it takes to come onto target. When not aimed, keep it at port arms. It can serve as a shield to possibly deflect enemy fire.

When aiming, exactly like skeet shooting, always aim with your upper body, not the weapon! Always keep the weapon in that previously described firing position and move your upper body to aim it. If you move the weapon and not your body, you risk having the weapon in a bad position for aim and recoil if you have to fire it. In a bad position, you can injure yourself and possibly even lose your grip on your weapon. If your weapon ever moves out of about a ten degree angle from that firing position, you need to practice more.

When firing in that previous position, keep your arms and hands locked in place and absorb the recoil with your upper torso in a twisting motion, not straight up and down. Up and down, you risk having the weapon cross your line of sight and you losing sight of your target.

Lights work better than lasers. Lasers show you direction and nothing more. Lights show you the direction *and* what you're shooting at as well as range. A cheaply made but perfectly effective shotgun light system can be made by securely mounting any decent LED light onto your weapon's barrel or magazine tube and then using a colored marker to mark the lens to show where your shot spread will impact.

Anyone that tells you a pistol grip shotgun is useless is simply telling you that *they* suck at shooting them. Anyone that tells you that you can't learn to use one by simply practicing is an idiot.

Read enough manuals and you pick up all sorts of funky know-how that you never thought you'd use. ;)

rich
 
Acceptableusername,
How long is your barrel?
If it's not to much hassle to get the "I'm a good guy" stamp where you live maybe you could consider a 12.5 or 14" barrel and a hogue short length butt stock....here in Canada we can get 12.5 " rem 870 clones for around $350 US and they are very handy without giving up the buttstock!
 
thanks for all the input. I know it's a heated issue. I have pretty considerable experience with both and while I definitely prefer the full-stock for most application hands down..the pgo is better for my house because of the extremely limited space I think. Most any hd scenario WOULD be more or less contact shooting (10-15 feet at the the utmost). I would never try to "clear a house", especially alone. I'd definitely hole up somewhere and call the cops/determine the threat. I'd have much more space doing so with a pgo though in my particular situation. In most defense applications I'd MUCH prefer an 18.5" barrel and youth full stock....just not this one....
 
10-15 feet is not what I was talking about for contact distance. CONTACT is what I was talking about or close enough for the BG to grab the muzzle. He's now got 26" of leverage against your NO inches of leverage.

The point you should STRONGLY consider is that at ANY position with which you can actually fire the gun and strike the target, your elbow is already further than the butt of the stock would have been had it been there. There is therefore NO "space" advantage. I've got a PGO shotgun and it's strictly a toy. You'd be surprised that the 10" you save (yeah, only 10" from the back of the PG to where the buttstock would have been) is always taken up with your forearm.
 
Just a quick aside on ammunition, it's been mentioned by several folks how difficult it is to manage recoil with a PGO with full house loads. Bear in mind that even "loaded down" with lighter recoil loads, the shotgun still lays on an amount of energy that is magnitudes greater than any pistol round.

Like many weapons it is inflated by Hollywood, and requires a lot of practice to use effectively, but I try not to dismiss anything out of hand (with the exception of my brother-in-law, who is a bit of a nooch).
 
To sum it up, IMHHO, it can be presumed there is really no right way to

utilize a PGO shotgun.

If it was all I had in a HD situation ,I guess I would have to

adapt ,improvise,or overcome to employ it in a given situation.

Let me state this, IT WOULD NOT, and will not be my first choice/design to

use due to the limitations it would impose on me in handling.

I'm not knocking a person or their preference of what they want to use in HD

but my gun is as straightforward and stock looking as can be so as not to

look like I intend to inflict murder and mayhem with ,forgive the term, a

"tacticool" glitzy plex, flashlifght laden replete with a built in laser light

show,shotgun.

Please accept my apoligies if I offend anyone but that's just me.

Practical is tactical for me.
 
If it's not to much hassle to get the "I'm a good guy" stamp where you live maybe you could consider a 12.5 or 14" barrel and a hogue short length butt stock
Click to expand...
X2. Having owned and shot both I would much rather have a 14" 870 with a shorter full stock than any PGO.
 
Well, golly. I guess the next time I need to feel stupid I will post on this website that I have a Pistol Grip shotgun. It is not a PGO officially, it is a Remington Police Folder. Yes, I believe there are several ways to use these guns to positive effect.

While you may not agree with me please be civil. I will be civil about plastic shell holders, red dots, lazers, and other such trinkets. :rolleyes:
 
Rshooter said:
Yes, I believe there are several ways to use these guns to positive effect.
Click to expand...

Name one.

While you may not agree with me please be civil.
Click to expand...

Who is being incivil? The OP asked a question, we answered it. Do you have a different answer? Did we say nobody should have one? No, we said it was useless. Check this thread out:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=451916

Notice I didn't say I was going to chase bad guys around the house with it. It's a toy. A novelty. Primary use will be to play at the range. That's the proper use for PGO shotguns, to injure your "macho" friends' egos when they shoot it.

For serious work in 99% of cases, leave it at home.
 
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