Protestors march against more secure U.S. border

[Crom]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...n,0,1410089.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

Mexico Cheers Passage of Immigration Bill

March 28, 2006, 4:43 AM EST

MEXICO CITY -- Mexicans cheered the proposal approved Monday by the Senate Judiciary Committee to legalize undocumented migrants and provide temporary work visas, and credited huge marches of migrants across the United States as the decisive factor behind the vote.

Mexican President Vicente Fox said the vote was the result of five years of work dating to the start of his presidential term in 2000, and puts Mexico one step closer toward the government's goal of "legalization for everyone" who works in the United States.

"My recognition and respect for all the Hispanics and all the Mexicans who have made their voice heard," Fox said. "We saw them turn out this weekend all across the United States, and that's going to count for a lot as we move forward."

Some Mexican media outlets were even more euphoric, predicting final approval for the committee bill as drafted, and suggesting the weekend demonstrations showed Mexico still holds some sway over former territories which it lost in the 1846-48 Mexican-American War.

"With all due respect to Uncle Sam, this shows that Los Angeles has never stopped being ours," reporter Alberto Tinoco said on the Televisa television network's nightly news broadcast, referring to a Saturday march in Los Angeles that drew an estimated 500,000, mainly Mexicans.

But U.S. ambassador Tony Garza warned Mexicans on Monday that the proposal still faces a long, difficult path through Congress.

"The debate will no doubt be heated and at times contentious," Garza wrote in an open letter distributed in Mexico City. "The debate in the Senate is only one part of the lengthy process."

The bill is designed to strengthen enforcement of U.S. borders, regulate the flow into the country of so-called guest workers and determine the legal future of the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the United States illegally.

The bill would double the Border Patrol and authorizes a "virtual wall" of unmanned vehicles, cameras and sensors to monitor the U.S.-Mexico border. It also allows more visas for nurses and agriculture workers, and shelters humanitarian organizations from prosecution if they provide non-emergency assistance to illegal residents.

The most controversial provision would permit illegal aliens currently in the country to apply for citizenship without first having to return home, a process that would take at least six years.

Fox has been pushing for a migration accord that would grant some form of legal status to many of the estimated 6 million undocumented Mexicans in the United States. He is likely to bring up the topic when he meets with President Bush starting Thursday in Cancun.

Although a bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants is unlikely to be approved by Congress, Fox remains hopeful that at least a guest-worker program will be put in place before he leaves office on Dec. 1.

If the United States approves such a program, it would bolster Fox's image and aid the prospects of Felipe Calderon, presidential candidate for Fox's National Action Party, or PAN, said George Grayson, a Mexico expert at the College of William & Mary.

"Fox is looking for some way to be remembered in history," Grayson said.

Illegal migration has emerged as a significant issue in the campaigns of Mexico's three major presidential hopefuls for the July 2 elections, and the United States has asked Mexico to do more to strengthen security along their common border.

 

[308win]

Illegal migration has emerged as a significant issue in the campaigns of Mexico's three major presidential hopefuls for the July 2 elections, and the United States has asked Mexico to do more to strengthen security along their common border.

Why not give them a little incentive - let's stop the flow of water via the Rio Grande until such time as the Mexican government does a more responsible job of controlling its borders. And if this doesn't work let's stop the flow in another river; eventually, they will either get the message or perhaps foolishly escalate their actions.

 

[longeyes]

The irrendentism cries are going to prove extremely counter-productive. This is a visceral thing. Only people intoxicated by childish fantasies don't see that. Unfortunately, our political establishment doesn't seem to be paying adequate attention to all aspects of this problem. If they want to be known as El Congresso that will be their choice--and their fate.

 

[longeyes]

Why not give them a little incentive - let's stop the flow of water via the Rio Grande until such time as the Mexican government does a more responsible job of controlling its borders. And if this doesn't work let's stop the flow in another river; eventually, they will either get the message or perhaps foolishly escalate their actions.

Unfortunately, Teddy Roosevelt is long gone.

But I have the feeling another is being born.

 

[jlseagull]

let's stop the flow of water via the Rio Grande until such time as the Mexican government does a more responsible job of controlling its borders.

Now, just like felony arresting and jailing every illegal immigrant, the same idea applies.... Can we put all this water at your house for 5-to-20?

If they want to be known as El Congresso that will be their choice--and their fate.

And all your bellyaching cracks me up, because I bet 95% of the people in this thread still mindlessly check down the GOP column next election, without regard to the individual politics of the people in question.

 

[Biker]

Alright Folks! Nineteen pages and nobody has allowed J6 or Seagull to goad them into a internet fight that would prompt Art to shut the Bad Boy down.
Lots of good info and ideas coming up here...
Has everyone contacted their Senators today? Hmmmm?
Thanks to Ira for a new angle.
Um, gotta put aside my pom-poms and grab a brew...
Biker

 

[jlseagull]

Who wants this thread shut down? Reading these xenophobic posts and jumping at shadows is pure entertainment!

Gotta admit that I didn't think anyone still thought of blogs as legitimate news sistes, but some of you have shown me that "I read it on the internet, it MUST be true!" is still alive and well.

Hispanic supremacy blogs, invasion plans from 1915, it's been most enjoyable to see the tin-foil hats come out. What goofiness will people search out to be scared of next???

 

[Biker]

I played the xenophobe in High School. It was a lot of fun.
Biker

 

[308win]

Now, just like felony arresting and jailing every illegal immigrant, the same idea applies.... Can we put all this water at your house for 5-to-20?

Sure. We already have 1/3 of the available fresh water in the world on our north coast, we might as well add to our hoard. Or how about we pipe it to the idiots trying to grow row crops in the semi-desert high plains; they have done a pretty good job of depleting the aquifers and could use the extra water. In fact, anything will work for me except the blissninny appeasment you have been advocating.

 

[seeker_two]

I played the xenophobe in High School. It was a lot of fun.

Me too, but I never could get past Level 13...

 

[longeyes]

Who wants this thread shut down? Reading these xenophobic posts and jumping at shadows is pure entertainment!

Xenophobia is deplorable.

But not as deplorable as xenophilia or xenomania.

Laugh now, weep later.

 

[308win]

Instead of wasting time posting here, why isn't everyone using this energy to write to their congress-critters?

 

[Biker]

A fair point, 308. I figure I can only write twice a day, hence my effort to spur others.
Biker

 

[308win]

But I have the feeling another is being born.

Please tell me you aren't refering to El Presidente Jorge!

 

[longeyes]

No, not Bush. No way. The times will create the people who are needed.

 

[longeyes]

a little touch of "xenophobia"

"It’s ally ally in free to foreign workers!

Dear Friend,
Just thought I’d let you know what exactly the Senate Judiciary
Committee
passed last night. First it’s blanket amnesty—everyone here illegally
will be given a swift path to citizenship. Then of course our laws
allow
your family to join you. That should give us 20 to 30 million in the
next
few years.

It will also encourage millions of more illegal aliens.

Next the bill proposes a massive new guest worker program. These new
“guest” workers will be allowed to live here permanently. Each year
400,000 new guest workers are welcomed and as they move to citizenship
they too bring their families.

Next the bill proposes an unlimited guest worker program for
agricultural
jobs. If you work here just part of every two years you too can stay
permanently. And yes we welcome your families as well.

The number of new foreigners in this country is too large for me to
count—but I assure you none of us will recognize our country.

So who benefits. We will be paying for the education and medical
expenses. We will be paying for the social services that are
associated
with the legal poor. And as economist Robert Samuelson wrote this
month
we are just importing poverty—“What we have now-- and would with guest
workers—is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States
while relieving it in Mexico.”

But the corporations, they get just what they want, millions of cheap
workers with no responsibility for any of them! Our Republican
Senators
must reject this bill and any other like it.

Although Senator Frist said the Judiciary Committee bill would not see
the
light of day in the Senate if a majority of the Republican Senators on
the
committee voted against it, he looks like he is backing off this
position.
We hear now that he may allow it to be debated on the floor along with
his bill.

And as I have said before, Frist claims his bill is enforcement only—IT
IS
NOT!!

Please keep calling the Senators! And we are planning to ask everyone
to
visit the local offices of the Senators and Congressman the week before
Easter. They will be home and need to see you face to face.
Americans
agree with us!! The Senators need to know they can not sell this
country
to their corporate friends. We won’t tolerate it!!

Thanks for all your help—keep the phones ringing. I know it is making
Republicans nervous. We need them scared to death! It’s an election
year
and they know it is not a good time to infuriate America!!

Will update you again as soon as I know more.

My best,
Bay Buchanan"

 

[Kodiaz]

A virtual wall that is total crap we have a virtual wall now and it is very porous.


The only virtual wall I would support is a lot of land mines.

 

[Biker]

Good Lord, Longeyes, I hope you're right. I think you're wrong. Americans don't want to *see*. Although I avoid Hollywood metaphors like the plague, the Matrix comes to mind.
Biker

 

[gc70]

by JammerSix
The United States does, the majority of this insignificant gunboard doesn't.

We are, however, honored that you would waste your valuable time to enlighten us on this insignificant gunboard.

 

[Kodiaz]

Ok boys I just wrote Mel Martinez and Bill Nelson again.

 

[gc70]

I don't feel I'm qualified to speak for any Mexicans regarding immigration from South America, as I don't live in Mexico, let alone near it's southern border.

I think anyone who tries to answer your question who is not from the area will be pulling an answer out of their butt to support their existing viewpoint.

Try doing a Google search - Mexico southern border immigrants works nicely for starters.

Oh, and the sources aren't all "ass-pulls" or blogs; here's a good article from The Economist.

I particularly like some of the information in this article by a Professor of Government at the College of William and Mary. Here's a description of illegal Guatemalan immigrants to Mexico:

Chiapan finca owners are frequently in the news, notably in the Tapachula and Guatemala City press, for their Simon Legree-like care of workers. The wealthy growers prefer Guatemalans over Mexicans to work on their plantations, where they raise mangos, bananas, coffee, and dozens of other crops in the fertile, steamy ambiance of southern Chiapas. Echoing U.S. employers’ claims about Americans, these finqueros insist that Mexicans will not do the hard work of planting, cultivating, and picking. ... This approach allows them to pay rates at or below the official minimum wage. Although the daily compensation may sometimes be slightly higher, the amounts specified on the three contracts in the author’s possession vary between $3.52 (32 pesos) and $3.85 (35 pesos) — with ranchers seldom if ever paying the workers’ social security, year-end bonuses, and other benefits. Even worse, some finca owners deduct from the paltry wages the cost of the two rudimentary daily meals and rustic housing furnished to most workers.

Wow, doesn't that sound familar.

 

[kart racer]

Everyone just needs to have the least amount of taxes taken out of their check-those that are working legally,then refuse to pay taxes when the gov't says you didn't pay enough.No money to fund the illeagals and maybe get a tax reform.How does the gov't expect to get the criminals to pay the 2000.00 fine and learn english,when they say there's no way to deport them now.

 

[jlseagull]

Try doing a Google search - Mexico southern border immigrants works nicely for starters.

Oh, and the sources aren't all "ass-pulls" or blogs; here's a good article from The Economist.

From your sources, GC....

A study conducted in the Tenosique area of Chiapas found that three groups — criminals (47.5 percent), the local Public Security police (15.2 percent), and migration agents (15.2 percent) — accounted for most of the mistreatment of immigrants arriving in Mexico from Central America mainly along the new El Naranjo-El Ceibo-Tenosique highway. Further south in Chiapas — in the Tapachula, Puerto Madero, Ciudad Hidalgo, and Soconusco region — charges have frequently been leveled against plantation, or finca, owners for exploiting Guatemalan guestworkers, known as jornaleros or braceros, who work on their vast ranches.

And the Economist...

Last year Mexico deported 147,000 illegal immigrants in all, some 20% more than in 2002. Over 90% came from just three Central American countries (Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua), almost all of whom are likely to have entered through the southern border. In Tapachula, immigration officials concede that the higher figure represents not their success in stemming the flow, but evidence that more are making the journey.

So it is not the Mexican federal government who is taking a hard-line on it's southern border and abusing immigrants, while simultaneously trying to loosen the northern border. Therefore the original charge of hypocracy against Mexico doesn't hold.



You even had the sources to read, and still pulled a conclusion from your ass.

 

[Biker]

Care to address my source, Seagull?
Biker

 

[Cuda]

Biker

Has everyone contacted their Senators today? Hmmmm?

Three days straight. Each time with more ammunition to stem the tide of illegals.

C