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Prove Magazine Ownership

Discussion in 'Legal' started by KenB22, Jan 24, 2013.

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  1. KenB22

    KenB22 Member

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    I am relatively new to gun ownership and live in Oho so I've never had to worry about ownership of "hi cap" mags.

    Let's assume that a 10 round limit in enacted but current ownership of hi caps are grandfathered in. What did everyone do years ago to be able to prove they owned pre-ban mags. I have no receipts for when I bought them. I was thinking of taking some digital photos which will have a time stamp on the file. Maybe some polaroids with a date on them.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I can make a digital photo have any time stamp I want, and so can you.

    If you want to create a "proof photo," lay them out on a current newspaper with current headlines and dates clearly showing. Photograph that.
     
  3. Str8Shooter

    Str8Shooter Member

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    You didn't have to do anything to prove magazines were pre-ban. All the >10 round magazines produced after the ban was in effect had "RESTRICTED LE/GOVT ONLY" engraved into them. The Glock 15-round mag I'm looking at right now also has the date 9.13.94 engraved into it.
     
  4. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    The previous ban allowed transfer of pre-ban mags. This made things simple -- anything that was not marked with a post-ban date, or "LE use only"
    indication, was presumed to be pre-ban, and thus freely transferable. The only effect of this was to drive up prices, because plenty of pre-ban mags were still available.

    The antigunners have learned a lesson from this experience. Their current plans are to ban transfers of existing mags, as well as ban production and sale of new ones. The only thing that would be grandfathered would be mere possession. Therefore, you would have to have owned the specific magazine before the ban went into effect.

    But it would be impossible, as a practical matter, to prove this, since magazines are not serial numbered. The only way to enforce the anti-transfer provision would be undercover sting operations, etc. I don't see how Feinstein's plan to outlaw transfers of existing magazines would be feasible.
     
  5. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    If that worked you'd only need to dig up a 1993 newspaper and you could "prove" that any mag was pre-ban :).

    During the previous ban, pre-ban mags were unmarked. Mags produced during the ban were generally marked "for law enforcement use only" (and often serial numbered). If you had one of those it was against the law.

    If a new such ban passes you can expect a similar marking identifying mags made after the passage of AWB 2.0. You just don't buy those.
     
  6. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    You do realize that the idea of the newspaper is to show that something is recent, not to authenticate when something happened in the past, right? Since one can't predict the front page of a newspaper in advance, if one takes a picture of someone or something with the current newspaper, one had the person or thing recently. If you have something or someone with an with an old newspaper, that just means you have an old newspaper and took the picture sometime between then and now. It's a "this didn't occur before this date" thing.

    If you still think it works the other way, perhaps I can interest you in buying this vintage PMAG from January 1996?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  7. KenB22

    KenB22 Member

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    Thanks
     
  8. Blackhawk30

    Blackhawk30 Member

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    I din't do anything.100 ak mags all look alike.Nobody was demanding proof of ownership.
     
  9. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    No thanks, Jorg, I don't need any mags.

    I grant that one could argue down the road that you simply used on an old newspaper to make the photo, but one could also argue that any sort of documentation is forged. If government decides to confiscate, no form of pre-ownership documentation will guarantee exemption.
     
  10. ultramag44

    ultramag44 Member

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    Here's the thing. Everyone has someone that doesn't like you.

    Maybe an ex spouse, lover, the guy you edged out @ work for that promotion, the uber-libatard neighbor that would look out their window and grit their teeth as they watched you load gun cases into the truck during hunting season, etc. have you ever told an in-law "No" when they asked for a loan (that would never be repaid)? Ever call LEO on a couple that were up fighting @ 3am when you were trying to sleep? add your own whomever a to this list.

    They all will rat on you in a heart pump to some snitch hotline #.
     
  11. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

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    Wouldn't the authorities have to prove I didn't?
     
  12. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    lol buy them all up and set them a drift!!

    If we can't have them then no one can!!! muahahahaha.
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The NY ban includes semi-autos with internal magazines over seven rounds. The idea was to ban the M1 Garand and the SKS. The M1 is especially hated by the anti-gunners as it is a symbol of American soldiers fighting against tyranny, when the antis see a future in which American soldiers will be killing American citizens to impose tyranny.

    Jim
     
  14. bubba in ca

    bubba in ca Member

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    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

    If the bill passes, all new mags will have serial numbers. they are not kidding this time around.
     
  15. KenB22

    KenB22 Member

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    As long as the new mags look different from the old ones, I'll be fine.

    FWIW, I downloaded a camera app for my phone and took a date stamped photo. I then took that digital file and saved it to a DVD I have important documents on. The date stamp on the photo matches the date stamp on the digital file. I guess if i really did a lot of stuff I could manipulate those but I'm hoping this will be enough in the event I need to try and prove I owned them. I could always have the gov't hire a computer consultant to prove the meta data in the file accurately reflects the date but I'm also guessing if it comes to that, I'll have bigger problems than mag ownership. :banghead:

    Thanks for all the thoughts
     
  16. Outlaw Man

    Outlaw Man Member

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    If you want to do the photograph thing, take a number from the poor-man's copyright. Mail the photos to yourself and leave the postmarked envelope unopened. Of course, you'll have to find a way to prove they're the same mags, either way. A little tough, without serial numbers.

    As mentioned, the new mags will have serial numbers. Yours won't, and that SHOULD be enough proof.
     
  17. Vermont Guy

    Vermont Guy Member

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    Oh I don't know...

    Like maybe a birth certificate?

    It works like this. The government has to prove the law was broken. We don't gotta' prove nothing.
     
  18. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    You mean like the IRS? If you believe a government that will knowingly and with pride violate the Constitution regularly will adhere to the axiom that a person is innocent until proven guilty, then for you the entire argument is moot.
     
  19. thump_rrr

    thump_rrr Member

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    All digital photos have embedded EXIF data.
    You can download a simple EXIF reader online.
    Just drag and drop the photo in the EXIF reader and all pertinent data will be seen.
    Just make sure that the date and time are properly set in your camera.

    As a side note if you are using a smartphone and do not have Location ID set to OFF the GPS location where the photo was taken will also be displayed.
     
  20. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Member

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  21. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Member

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    No, it works like this. They don't have to prove anything. They can just bankrupt you and destroy your life.
     
  22. thump_rrr

    thump_rrr Member

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  23. goon

    goon Member

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    Ken - no offense, but let's not assume anything. Let's write our reps and tell them what they need to do to get re-elected.

    Don't worry about grandfather clauses for laws that don't exist yet. That is defeatist thinking and we don't want to be defeated. And we don't have to be if we all keep the pressure on congress.
     
  24. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    You can not do anything to prove it. Magazines aren't serial numbered and have no time related information associated with them.

    The failed AWB of '94 caused magazine manufacturers to mark the ones made between 1994 and 2004 with LE only sorts of markings (I have several as souvenirs of that moronic law).

    Magazine capacity has nothing to do with murder rates. The data clearly shows that while the popularity of the rifles and their magazines that are under debate has increased, the murder rate has decreased. The murder rate is at the lowest point in a generation. If the rate of murders is at 30 year low then how can the most sought after firearms and their magazines be responsible for an increase in murder rates? Up is down? Black is white? Lies are being told to the public so they start to ask questions like "Who needs...?" in spite of the fact that there's nothing about them moving the needle on murder nationwide.
     
  25. Ash

    Ash Member

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    HSO, as do I. I even have a Ruger Mini 14 so marked, sold to me, through an FFL I know, by the Mississippi Highway Patrol.
     
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