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PTR....for what purpose?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Archangel14, May 9, 2013.

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  1. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    My LGS has a few PTRs in stock. I am impressed with the quality. Yet I found the basic model to be very heavy and a bit awkward. The sights were less than adequate also.

    So for the $1,300 price tag, I have to ask: what purpose does such a rifle serve?
     
  2. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    It's a reliable, powerful rifle that works for defense, competition, or just plain fun. In terms of price and quality, PTRs are really the best HK-style rifles available.
     
  3. Arp32

    Arp32 Member

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    Back when the CAI (I think) ones were $600, I asked myself the same thing after handling them in person a few times.

    A little unwieldy, little heavy and not super accurate... Expensive to feed (even then), but still there was something about them I liked.

    I think it's just because there aren't too many magazine fed battle rifles with pistol grips - a big thumper has a certain satisfaction to it.

    Never worked up enough desire to buy one though.
     
  4. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I get the whole "it's cool" aspect of the rifle. And I know it would be a good, reliable battle rifle. I imagine it can be used to hunt with. But at $1,300 I imagine there are a ton of better hunting and defense rifles out there. How many of us our going to ever be in a hard core, sustained battle against multiple well armed adversaries? Even so, an AR will more than suffice. I think the PTR is essentially for the "I got one" enthusiast.
     
  5. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    It's a cheaper alternative to shelling out well over $2,000 for a real HK-91

    I got mine brand new for around $1,100 a couple months ago.

    I wouldn't call it a tack driver but it's accurate enough for a battle rifle and it's reliable and fun to shoot. I don't think there is really a "purpose" to this rifle platform but I think it tends to appeal to gun enthusiasts who appreciate classic battle rifles such as the FAL and perhaps even the AK.
     
  6. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    You can stick a registered full auto trigger group on it. If you want a G3 clone, it's the cheapest game in town. Also, it's made off of HK machinery.
     
  7. adelbridge

    adelbridge Member

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    AR-10 made more sense to me
     
  8. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I think it's a great rifle, so don't get me wrong. But the pure weight of it, whewww! I'm in pretty good shape, and probably above-average strength for a middle age guy. But in no way would I want to be slugging it out with a group of armed adversaries for a hour or two with the PTR. Way too heavy! The AR is a much better fit. And for hunting? A simple bolt action will do just fine.

    On the other hand, if stuff gets crazy I can imagine the PTR bringing the thump!
     
  9. DesertFox

    DesertFox Member

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    1) It chows brass. Not good for the reloader
    2) It has no last shot bolt hold open

    Other than that, I dig it.
     
  10. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    I can't believe people constantly whine about an additional pound or two over varmint cartridge rifles. It's a full power weapon and actually isn't that heavy at all. A FAL is more front heavy IMO. I think it's a good rifle. Don't mind the lack of a bolt hold open. Safety catch is easy to reach. Worse part is the mag release, same with the HK93 style rifle, not sure what they were thinking.
     
  11. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    It's a good battle rifle in .308. The big advantages are reliability and dirt cheap magazines. I think I have 200+ mags for mine and bought them at $1 each!!!

    There are better .308 battle rifles. Look into the M1A or the FAL. Both are better rifles and not much more expensive. I have both and speak from experience. Better overall features and accuracy and ergonomics.

    I don't have a AR10, but have a lot of AR15s. That is also an excellent design.
     
  12. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

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    Exterminating entire sounders of swine...
     
  13. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

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    What makes the FAL better than the PTR?
    Just curious...
     
  14. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    $1300 is awfully expensive (Mine was $800 last summer), but they're quality shooters for sure. Mine shoots 2.0-2.5 MOA with the cheapest .308 available.

    The charging handle is awkward at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly.

    I'm not sure what you found inadequate about the sights unless you were looking at the notch. That's for very close shooting. You actually use the "2" a vast majority of the time.

    It also isn't really any heavier than any other battle rifle in .308. It's 9.5 lbs. You CAN get M1As, AR10s, or FALs at slightly lighter, but other configurations are much heavier. The LR308, for example, is 11.25 lbs. Unless you're comparing the PTR to an AR15, I'm not sure it's much heavier than anything else.

    A few things are slightly different, but it's just as good as FAL, AR10, M1A, etc... It's hard on brass, obviously, but that's a different story. LOL
     
  15. Gunnerboy

    Gunnerboy Member

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    Nothing no offense to anyone but if i remeber right its one of the few rifles that the africans cant break....within reason.
     
  16. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    Of course there are better hunting rifles. You're paying for a battle rifle. I doubt the store that has them for $1300 is selling any other battle rifle (FAL, AR10, M1A) any cheaper... Perhaps slightly on an LR308 would be my guess.

    If you don't ever think you'll ever have to battle against many well-armed multiple adversaries, then you should definitely skip it. You would only be getting it as an "it's cool" enthusiast. Stick with bolt action and lever action rifles.

    In the event of a "battle" against many well-armed multiple adversaries, an AR15 would "suffice"? LOL... For people who view this as plausible, "suffice" isn't really good enough. The .308 pentrates up to 3X deeper than the .223. It carries more energy and momentum at 500 yards than the .223 does at the muzzle. The .308 can shoot several hundred yards further without being nearly as affected by wind. If the weight and recoil of the .308 vs. the .223 isn't an issue (it will be for some), then a battle rifle is far better than an AR15.
     
  17. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    ++1
     
  18. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I disagree. The AR 15 qualifies as a "battle rifle", as does my Yugo M48. My concern is protecting my own from roving bands of citizen criminals during a Karina-type situation. I would have a difficult time believing that I'm not well armed with an AR in 5.56. Certainly the .308 is much more powerful and will do much more damage. But the 5.56 would serve well. I think that's the scenario I envision.

    And as for the rifle's weight, loaded at over 10 pounds? That's pretty heavy to be hauling around. My 30-06 bolt gun comes in at a bit over 6.5 loaded. That's actually a big difference in carry weight.
     
  19. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    The FAL is a superior rifle over the PTR91.

    FAL = Better accuracy, better sites, better ergonomics, more user friendly charging handle location, mag release location, safety design, etc. bolt hold open feature, and the balance is better. Factory forearm and stock on the PTR91 are complete junk and need immediate $200 replacement too.

    Invest $1300 into a DSA FAL and you'll be much happier.
     
  20. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Any complaints about mine are really irrelevant to the use of the rifle as a battle rifle. The rifle is meant to be zeroed once with one type of ammunition. Rezeroing is a bother . the windage adjustment knob has about a half turn of slack and you have to have a screw driver to loosen the screw. Since the elevation turret has fixed elevation adjustments for yardage, you have to play with a screwdriver to get an elevation zero when changing ammunition or bullet weights.

    PTRRearSight.jpg


    For a rifle to be handed out to untrained cannon fodder in a war, this is not an issue: cheap, fast, manufacture, reliability and ease of maintenance are far more important considerations.


    What happens in major wars is that the military does not have time to train recruits to any level of marksmanship. At best the recruits understand how to load, fire their weapons. There are a number of accounts of Dough Boys (WW1) and Dog Faces (WW2) who arrived in combat not knowing how to load their weapons. We still have a living WW2 veteran in the gun club, he had a total of 20 rounds of familiarization with M1 carbines before being second wave on the Iwo Jima invasion. He had two ten round periods of familiarization at a 200 yard range with a carbine before being loaded on an invasion ship. He got each of those carbines zeroed in the ten rounds he was to fire through them, but the carbines were taken away. One he had to aim at the bottom of the target to hit the middle, it was shooting at least three feet high! He was issued an unzeroed, unfired carbine on the way to Iwo Jima. He had to zero the thing in combat. He said his first shots, he aimed at the right most of three Japanese, and hit the left most! He had to beat the sight base over with a knife butt.


    My Uncle, 101 Airborne, he had a total of eight rounds of familiarization with his M1919 before being dropped behind enemy lines at Normandy. He and his loader were so ignorant of the function of the thing they did not know it did not have a safety. They loaded a belt into the machine gun, were setting it up in combat, and bumped the trigger mechanism on the ground. The M1919 discharged, shooting off a finger of the loader who had his hand over the muzzle!



    Another complaint has been the short buttstock and the scope mounts that place the scope directly into your head. Maybe about 2” into your head, I took my scope mount off after realizing that it placed any scope I had too far back.

    The rifle is hard on ammunition, but reloading is not a consideration for an issue service rifle. I installed a buffer which kept ejected ammunition within 15 yards. Without a buffer cases are ejected 25 yards or so.

    This is a well thought out battle rifle, it is still in production and service, after the FAL and M14 have been out of production for decades.


    In 2008 I had Bill Springfield do a trigger job on my PTR 91. He did an excellent trigger job, match quality for a service rifle.


    > wspringfield@comcast.net wrote:
    >
    > I can set you up with a pull that has virtually no creep in the 4.75 area. I
    > also remove all the take up slack. Price runs $54 and return postage is
    > included. Only the trigger pack is needed, personal check is fine. My address
    > is:
    >
    > Bill Springfield
    > 4135 Cricket Ct.
    > Colorado Springs, Co 80918


    PTR91fulllength.jpg
     
  21. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    In truth, speaking for myself only, I have no immediate use for any of the firearms I own, other than the enjoyment of shooting and learning about the mechanisms. I am not a soldier, nor do I want to be one. I do not fear roving bands of thugs coming to take my food horde. I do not fantasize about such events, I do not plan for such events, as I find the thoughts disturbing, and the liklihood of such nonsense pretty remote.

    However, I am an unabashed gear head, and love learning how things work. I enjoy shooting as a pastime, and sometimes I will compete, or at least I used to, before I broke my neck and spine. I really like my PTR91. It is more accurate than any FAL I have owned, and as accurate as any M1A I have owned. It is relatively short, has a free floated barrel, points well, and is absolutely reliable. With a port buffer, any brass that I can find ejected from the PTR is reusable, the sights are just plain marvelous. It readily accepts optics, and night vision. The "retarded blowback" roller "lock" mechanism always fascinates me, and makes me smile.

    Cleanup is a breeze, and the rifle is just plain my favorite of its type.

    Whenever I have the chance to shoot it, I always return from the range satisfied with the day. Back when 22 long rifle was plentiful, my 22 cal kit in the PTR was responsible for introducing several people to shooting sports, some of whom went on to buy their own firearms.

    AK reliable, AR accurate, super easy to clean up, naturally points well, what's not to like? It packs a whole lot of fun in that little package. I guess it is like licorice: Not everybody likes licorice, but those who do like it, really like it. :)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  22. GCMkc

    GCMkc Member

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    Different strokes for different folks. Out of all the battle rifles I feel this one gets the most criticism. Not everyone is a believer. Forgot to mention what purpose this rifle is for. Same purpose as an FAL, M1A, or AR-10 style rifle: Target shooting, plinking, hunting, self defense, SHTF, whatever roll you want it to fill.

    PTR makes a quality rifle on HK machinery. I cannot vouch for an FAL but I do recognize that the ergonomics appear to be more user friendly. I bought my PTR-91k about 3 years ago for $999. I have about $450 into the rifle (cheek riser, rail section, HK claw mount, scope rings, clipped and pinned metal SEF lower, and some other small parts). A new M1A, FAL, or decent AR-10 is going to run you that much.

    The lack of a bolt hold open doesn't bother me.

    I don't reload but dinged up brass can be fixed with a simple brass deflector ~$35.

    Everyone knocks the magazine release. I can understand why but if you are just out on the range bench shooting what need is there to be able to quick change magazines. Paddle mag releases have to be installed per BATFE specs with a certain size pin and have to be permanently welded in place so a push-pin lower cannot be swapped onto the rifle. Like others, I wished they just did this in the PTR factory during the building process. Anyway, you can go the TAC-Latch route for around $55 or have one professionally installed the rifle for around $150 (Bill Springfield does this).

    Whoever said that the stock forearm on the PTR is junk, can you please explain? It's machined aluminum, lightweight, and has the ability to add or remove picatinny rail sections. What more could you want? Why do you have to spend $200 more to get something better? What do you consider better?

    The weight isn't that bad. I don't have an FAL or M1A but I'm pretty sure that it can't be much heavier or unwieldy. I would think that an FAL would be more nose heavy due to the piston system but I could be wrong. Most people won't be lugging one of these rifles around all day with full kit so I don't really see a difference in 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound. It seems these rifles are either loved or hated.

    DSA SA58 w/ 16" barrel claims 8.35lbs
    PTR-91kf w/ 16" barrel claims 9lbs
    M1A Socom 16 w/ 16" barrel claims 8.8lbs
    DPMS LR-308 AP4 w/ 16" barrel claims 8.5lbs

    Agreed 100%

    For the "I got one" crowd. ;)

    [​IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  23. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    Do you find such thoughts "disturbing" and nonsensical? Well, just so you don't have the wrong impression, I spend very, very little thought on such subjects. But my personal experience has dictated that I give some thought to, and prepare for, several people trying to do harm to me and my family. Because it's actually happened to me. I'm sure that in your nice, insulated world there will never be a need to defend yourself or your family. Simply cannot happen, I'm sure. But strangely, it's actually happened to me. It's shocking, I know. And after a bit of research, I saw that it has happened to quite a few peaceful folk in recent times. The aftermath of Katrina is one solid example. Oh, and there were those roving bans of KKK guys no so long ago attacking peaceful black families. Oh, and there was that gang of teenagers who beat the living crap out of my cousin after Hurricane Sandy when he found them raiding his garage.

    I live in an earthquake zone. I've taken some steps to be a bit prepared. Sorry that offends you so much friend.;)
     
  24. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I get your point. I guess that after handling a light AR, the weight difference is quickly noticed. And I think that for hunting, particularly, I'd rather carry less weight if I could. And God forbid I ever find myself using a rifle in self defense, I think a lighter AR platform would be a great choice. I think those are the thoughts behind my "what purpose does the PTR serve" question. For us civys anyway.
     
  25. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    The FAL is more nose heavy, however, a standard 21" FAL with steel lower has excellent overall balance that makes it feel lighter than it is. Put a picatinny rail on, thereby ruining the balance, and you quickly see how a well balanced weapon negates extra weight. My own is a 16" barrel model with para folding stock and alloy lower. It has excellent balance as well. Handling and shooting a FAL, one quickly realizes why over 90 countries used it and many still actively field and produce a variant. It's simply a rifle that does nothing particularly well but does everything satisfactorily. I feel that is what makes it a great design.
     
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