Pump vs Auto

[Dave McCracken]

What works best is either one that you've put a messa ammo through since New Year's Day.

What we hold in our hands matters much less than what we hold in our heads......

 

[BeerSleeper]

The guys working the pumps in that video are clearly either not trying for speed, or not terribly proficient. The big dude in the middle took about 9 seconds to get off 5 shots.

 

[mickeygrimreaperblueeyes]

There's only one reason Benelli, a combat supplier would make a pump to semi shotgun for combat applications. The Semi Might Foul.

 

[JNewell]

To add to Dave's post, consider this.

The "operator" of the shotgun is far more likely to fail the shotgun than the shotgun is to fail the "operator."

...and that's TRVTH...

 

[twofifty]

Isn't it easier to clear a jam, stovepipe or whatever with a pump?
You don't have to fight the return spring.

 

[Youngster]

I think in absolute terms the box mag fed semi would be better in a narrow set of circumstances. However, I wouldn't carry one for woods defense nor would I find myself doing most of my shooting with one, so I'd lean towards the pump.

 

[Taurus_9mm]

Personally I'd opt for a pump shotgun with a capacity of 5, 6 or 7 + 1.

 

[benellimax4]

I have had Benelli M1S90s and FN SLP Mark I defense shotguns. I currently have Remington 870s.

Both can fail.

Important consideration - a failure with a pump gun will usually be easier and faster to clear than a failure with a semi auto.

 

[david58]

I have never shot a pump in my 52 years. Dunno why, just never shot one. But I am very confident in my Rem 1100. May have a bit longer barrel than ideal, but for HD I plan to procure another and mount up a shorter barrel.

I would think 5 rounds and the ability to reload on the fly is probably plenty - and I feel pretty confident in my ability to clear a failure to cycle.

 

[Hal Carter]

This an often discussed topic, and no doubt a pump can and has worked for many years. Think about this though;If an AR 15 was available in a pump, how many would prefer it over the semi auto? Or even a single action cowbow pistol? Not many I'd bet. Both could be pressed into service but if we have the money get the best we can afford. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Hardware]

If you see a HD problem needing more than 6 shots, who do you plan on defending your home from, Godzilla?

I'd weight in against box fed shotguns since most auto pistol failures are magazine failures. Over 100 years of auto pistol building hasn't got it 100%, then the short interval of box magazine fed shotguns hasn't either.

Plus, with a tube fed shotgun if you have rounds you can reload singles. With a box it is full or partial.

A semi shouldn't fail due to fouling with 6 shots or less. But semis are more expensive. I'd get a pump, due to relative expense and spend the balance of cash on ammo and practice. Expertise and familiarity with your weapon will help balance things out if you ever need to use it for real.

 

[AuthorityDenied]

Ill stick with my 7+1 Mossberg 500

 

[Domino]

From a purely self-defense perspective, the auto is unquestionably better provided it is reliable enough to be used with defensive ammunition. For most people though, a pump is far more practical and better suited to the different sort of tasks that that a shotgun could be expected to do, including self-defense. Either would be adequate for self-defense (and its proven every day) as long as the user is willing to train with one.

Personally, I feel the best design for a defensive shotgun would be an autoloader in a bullpup configuration with a tube fed magazine. We need a modern version of the High Standard model 10B, (or better yet a semi-auto KSG). Detachable magazines are too heavy and impractical to carry outside competition, so the Saiga 12 is too impractical in most cases.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

The only thing that would stop me from using my auto is that the barrel is too long---I can get a whole pump shotgun for less than it costs for a shorter barrel for my auto.

 

[BeerSleeper]

chambering an auto just doesn't have the same tacticool sound as a pump.

 

[RX-178]

All else equal (which we're going to assume since specific models haven't been mentioned by the OP), the auto shotgun is undoubtedly the more effective weapon. Period.

It's also the more expensive weapon, and generally the more maintenance intensive weapon. Generally speaking, for the same price you could have a semi-auto rifle, which is an even more versatile weapon than either shotgun.

The pump action has the definite advantage in that for the most part, they are dirt cheap, and after a century of use have certainly proven themselves at least 'good enough'.

 

[Girodin]

For most people though, a pump is far more practical and better suited to the different sort of tasks that that a shotgun could be expected to do, including self-defense.

Why is that? What is the bases for this conclusion. I'm not trying to be contrarian I'd genuinely like to know what the real argument you are trying to make is. "Practical" could encompass any number of considerations.

Detachable magazines are too heavy and impractical to carry outside competition, so the Saiga 12 is too impractical in most cases.

I'm not sure I would agree that is per se the case.

 

[Ole Humpback]

It all dependent on two things: personal experience & number of rounds fired.

For me pumps suck for one of two reasons; either they have an "awkward" pump action that makes me feel like my left arm is under the muzzle of the gun or they have a great action but come to my shoulder awkwardly.

But this is also due to the fact that I shot almost 10000rds a year in high school with a Sweet 16. Semi-autos have been and will always be my go to shotgun. I'd feel much safer wielding a semi-auto that I know inside & out and have shot with for years.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

You can't short shuck an auto.

 

[Delmar]

Id be okay with either, provided I was given the choices on which shotgun to have. My personal preference is a 12 gauge pump, but thats a money issue more than anything else. I really like 870s...nothing magical about them at all, just a very workmanlike assembly. Easy to break down and it swings nicely. Plus, you can outfit it to your hearts content. Sort of the chevy small block of shotguns, you could say. Havent short stroked it in a covey since I was first learning on one many years ago, and this thing just gets smoother with time and use.

 

[jdh]

In the heat of battle it is common to short stroke a pump. The resultant jam can be difficult to clear.

Can you cover the threat and top off your Box mag fed at the same time?



BeerSleeper,

Stand on the other side of the door where you can't see what I have in my hand and tell me if I am loading my 870 or 11-87.

 

[Domino]

Why is that? What is the bases for this conclusion. I'm not trying to be contrarian I'd genuinely like to know what the real argument you are trying to make is. "Practical" could encompass any number of considerations.

As far as practical goes, a good quality pump is much cheaper than even the cheapest auto. Also a good pump can use an extensive range of ammunition types with no change in reliablity where that is rarely the case with an auto. Additionally, pumps can generally accept a wider range of accessories to better suit the shooter and its intended uses whereas there do not tend to be as many for a lot of automatics. Basically, a pump will get you in the game cheaper and easier.

As far as the Saiga 12 goes, it is a good combat shotgun until you run out of loaded magazines. Of course, you could carry a couple of 10 round magazines on you and that would probably be enough for pretty much any likely scenerio any civlian would find themselves in. But they are bulkier and expensive than a shotgun with a simple tube mag. Personally, I like the fact that I could carry a selection of loose ammo and be able to feed my gun as needed.

 

[Girodin]

Also a good pump can use an extensive range of ammunition types with no change in reliablity where that is rarely the case with an auto.

Lets say agruendo that this is the case ( I don't think it actually is for all autos). For HD this is not a huge consideration. You load it with slugs or buck and whether it will run 7/8 oz target loads or the like is neither here not there.

As far as practical goes, a good quality pump is much cheaper than even the cheapest auto.

Pumps are cheaper that goes without saying. However, cheaper is only one consideration of many when it comes to being practical. How hefty of a consideration depends on ones finances. For some a few or even several hundred dollars one way or another is not much of a factor at all.

Basically, a pump will get you in the game cheaper and easier.

No argument there. I'm not sure that it equates to it being per se more "practical" than an auto loader. I'm certain that doesn't per se equate to it being the better fighting gun.

I like the fact that I could carry a selection of loose ammo and be able to feed my gun as needed.

I find truly loose ammo to be more difficult to carry and access than a loaded mag or the 5-10 round variety.

Of course, you could carry a couple of 10 round magazines on you and that would probably be enough for pretty much any likely scenerio any civlian would find themselves in.

If we hypothesize (fantasize?) a scenario where 20 rounds doesn't suffice that is not an argument against the saiga and its box mags it is an argument for them IMHO. My 930 SPX for example is an 7+1. I could ghost load it to 9. However, I, like many, would keep it cruiser safe. The gun has 7 rounds in it. With even an 8 round side saddle (and some pump guns wont run that without modification) and a two shell holder a fore the ejection port I have only 17 rounds on it. A pump might have an 8 round mag tube and an 8 round side saddle. If you need 20+ rounds things are not looking good unless you have an additional source of ammo you are going to carry. In which case I doubt it is vastly superior to carrying it in a box mag.

Some people keep spare mags in a "sneaky bag" right by the gun. My set up is a three mag pouch, "man purse" bandolier of sorts. I can sling it over my shoulder in less than a second and have 30 more rounds.

As the round count climbs the reload speed and, as importantly in my mind, simplicity of the box mags starts to be a much more significant advantage.

 

[rbernie]

It's probably pretty well established on this forum that I <heart> my Browning Auto5s, and that at the same time I have a fondness for 870 Wingmasters. Over the last year, I have probably put about 3K rounds through each platform, and recently been comparing their performance on a back-to-back basis.

The Wingmasters will clearly eat any load, regardless of power, while the Auto5s will struggle to cycle my 7/8oz range puff loads. However, either of them will cycle low recoil or full power slugs and buck just fine (making them equally suitable for HD/SD use). Of greater importance to me is the fact that I can get a second shot off faster and with less perturbance with the Auto5 than with the 870. The semiauto allows me to focus solely on the target, and sadly the pump does not. I have not had issues with short-shucking the 870 or anything like that - it's not hard to ingrain the motions needed to work the gun. But it's an undisputed fact that the pump gun requires muscle movements to work the action, and that those motions can detract or distract from tracking a moving target.

I like my pump guns. I have, well, more than a few of them. I think that getting proficient with any gun is more important than debating over which gun is most perfect. But there is no doubt in my mind that if given the choice between the two and the budget to afford the purchase and the practice with either, I would certainly select a semiauto such as my Auto5 for SD/HD use over a pump gun.

But two hundred and fifty bucks worth of pump gun and two hundred and fifty bucks worth of range ammo and range fees will always be a better choice than five hundred bucks worth of semiauto that never gets used.

 

[BeerSleeper]

autos are finicky about ammo quality

pumps are finicky about operator quality.

If you have both, shoot whatever you want, if you have one or the other, choose accordingly, and if you have neither, hide.