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Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Discussion in 'Air Guns' started by cobalt327, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    It's a shame the cost is so high- within spitting distance of a LW tube.

    FWIW I see there's an electroless Ni process that uses a percentage of phosphorus to increase wear resistance (unsure if this is inherent to ALL electroless Ni plate or is a 'special' process). When heat treated it seems that it would be gtg in a BB gun shooting plated ammo. More HERE.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  2. hinz57

    hinz57 Member

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    FWIW, the price included a heat treating process said to make the Rockwell hardness higher. He didn’t think it would make much difference. Sorry, probably left out more....
     
  3. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    It would be interesting to see just how well it worked, and for how long. I think as long as the muzzle wasn't eroded, accuracy would be better. I'm not sure how wear would take place but it would seem if there was going to be wear that it would be right in the area where the air tube contacted the BB. Once the BB is in motion all there would be is the friction between the BB and ID of the tube and that doesn't seem like it would be all that much. But he's an expert on this and I'm a backyard hack, so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  4. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Your also up way too early in the morning. Is this BB gun thing keeping you awake at night? :)
     
  5. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Haha ordinarily I would say no, but actually I've been butting heads with a recalcitrant 111-40 that refuses to shoot the MV I know it should. It's the most perplexing gun to cross my path is quite some time and it actually has made me stay up late trying different things to get it shooting right! I can't quit now- I have too much time invested already, so in for a dime, in for a dollar...
     
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  6. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Good hear Hinz investigated the plated bore idea. I contacted several area shops. No one was interested in taking the time. At least for the $$ I was willing to invest.
    Thankfully I believe the “Marksman” BBs have solved the bb to bore fit issue.
    I’m using two of the 1938Bs (both fitted with scopes) to test accuracy and improved trajectory. The gun I modified with a hop-up “nub” in the bore is showing promise. Still playing with the amount of engagement the nub has with the BB. Will publish results when and if I’m satisfied they’re correct.
     
  7. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    For anyone who didn't see it, there are some very interesting photos of two BB pistols that use hop up. One is the Sig Sauer P226 X-Five Open without adjustable hop up, the other is a Umarex Beretta M9A3 with adjustable hop up. They show the shape of the bucking and how the adjustment is made, etc. Good stuff and thanks to rws_53 for posting it.

    I'm wondering how critical it is for where the bucking is placed along the length of the barrel. For the pistols shown, it's close to the breech. But with a BB 'rifle', is it better to place the bucking near the breech or would putting it closer to the muzzle be better? It would seem that there'd need to be more bucking engagement the further the BB had to travel inside the barrel to keep the same amount of backspin due to friction.
     
  8. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Daisy STILL hasn't stocked any new air tubes, at least not as of my last order that I placed on 7-1-19. Sure hope this isn't something that is dropped from their parts. They're also out of the regular (w/o fiber optic rod) front sight/barrel plugs.
     
  9. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Hmmm, sell the tube in an assembly? As they do the spring plunger.
    Does anyone know, where are the RRiders and Bucks assembled ? Offshore or here ? Asked one of the customer order ladies, she inferred they were assembled in Arkansas? Couldn’t get her to give anymore details. Rather “closed mouthed” I thought. It would surprise me if assembled here.
     
  10. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Forgot to add, they're also out of plunger assemblies.

    China as far as I know, w/the exception of a few limited/special edition guns.
     
  11. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I just got a model 99B Champion BB gun in a trade. This particular 99B has a LOT. NO. (period after "LOT" same as the 1938B and others from this era) E907890, so was made May 1979. It's down on power and in need of a rebuild so I took it all the way down today. I found the shot tube/abutment assembly to be interesting from an evolutionary standpoint. It has not one magnet to locate the BB like current "B" models but two of them, across from each other horizontally. No idea why it was configured like this but it didn't last long. There are a few other "transitional" configurations Daisy used briefly as the "B" models were sorted out, so I suppose we can chalk this up to a sort of a running change/teething process these lawyer-inspired guns went through on their way to what we have today.

    Briefly, here's what the rest of the gun shakes out like:
    • Piston is 7/8", same as the 1938B. Non "B" wide frame Daisys are 13/16"
    • Uses a piston pin with flats
    • Shot tube is the same as the '38B except for the number and placement of the magnets
    • Both the shot tube and air tube have visible seams- both will be replaced with current production '38B parts
    • Oil wiper is felt, not foam
    • Plastic trigger module with no anti beartrap mechanism
    • Monte Carlo style stock with "Official Shooting Education" medallion
    • Straight lever with black plastic insert
    • Long wood forearm
    • Tan fabric sling
    SPRING
    • 29.25 turns, unground closed ends
    • 7.125" free length
    • 0.091" wire
    The abutment seal feels like a Necco wafer...
    fx9uWH8.jpg

    Shane made me a new plunger fork:
    bpRdyBM.jpg
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  12. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    A few shots of some stocks Shane's been working on. The receivers have been fire blued:

    ItovbZZ.jpg

    8sIsdnt.jpg

    ipYvlxQ.jpg

    TiGmoMd.jpg

    86uTh4j.jpg

    JnxK8Vs.jpg
     
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  13. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Those stocks are simply incredible. I'm not a wood person but one of those is going on the bucket list. They are beautiful!
    Thanks for the photos.
     
  14. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    A while back, chokes were being discussed. I mentioned seeing some homemade setups for choking barrels but I didn't have the info at hand until it was reposted HERE. This is a screenshot of the post showing two methods:

    JYUe2v6.jpg
     
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  15. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    I would think with the split choke dies and a hydraulic press the choke could be formed without much effort. I'm wondering how much effect this would have on a ball type of projectile? The 499 type barrel is a pretty tight fit to start with. This winter I will give it a try if someone hasn't tried before then.
    Something to think about. When the barrel is placed in the die and pressure applied you are not forming a round choke. It will be slightly dimpled out on each side where the die is split. So you rotate the barrel 90 degs. and press it again. What I imagine you end up with is still not round. I wish I could describe what I invision happening. The dimples are forced inward but so is the material right next to either side of it. Now you have a choke with a slight clover leaf shaped bore. Honing might remove that.
    What do you think?
     
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  16. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I understand what you're describing. In that same posters previous posts on this, he did mention rotating the die but I'd imagine there's still going to be some amount of eccentricity. What the effect would be, I can only guess but I'd say some choke- even w/dimples- is better than none.

    Our Daisy shot tubes are much thinner (and softer to some extent) than a powder burner gun barrel, and there's no real concern over marring the OD where the rollers contact so I think using a modified tubing cutter would be the better way to go.
     
  17. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Placing a hardened dowel inside the barrel before the choking process might help keep the barrel concentric. The thin Daisy barrel would definitely make things easier.
    Hinz have you had an opportunity to do any accuracy testing on your LW barrel?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019 at 3:28 PM
  18. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Hey guys, good to see the posts. Great wood from “Shane” and the plunger fork is terrific. The choke idea is interesting. Affect the O.D. Fit to the plastic bushing ?
    I’ve gone down another rabbit hole. Decided to remove the “copper” coating on the “Marksman” BBs. The theory, if oil in the barrel affects accuracy, as it does, what happens if the “slick” coating is removed? Using a mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, takes couple tenths off OD. Also added salt on a couple batches to “etch” the steel. Get some rust.
    Haven’t had time to determine the effects. Will post what I think I know.
    Aim small
     
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  19. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    When Hinz measured the LW barrel OD, IIRC he said it was only 0.001"-0.0015" smaller than the rest of the tube. If I'm remembering this right, I don't think that will have much effect on the fit.

    Will be watching for the results of your BB de-coating experiments!
     
  20. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Daisy model 105B optics rail?

    Sure, why not? After all, what haven't we done here?? lol I've messaged with the owner/maker of this rail and I think it's interesting so I wanted to let the members here know about it. At first, the idea of mounting a scope to a Buck may seem... odd. But I personally have shot better groups using a Buck than I got with quite a few Red Ryders, so the potential for accuracy is there (accuracy testing seen HERE). And for me, the biggest drawback to the Buck (other than the short LOP) has long been the lack of an adjustable sight. He also considering making an under barrel rail for mounting a bipod or possibly a flashlight to the Red Ryder.

    Details on the Buck Rail can be seen HERE, the Red Ryder under barrel mount is HERE. It’s not in production yet if I understand it correctly but it could be if there is enough interest in it. His young son has come up with the idea of 3-D printed targets. They're on the same page as the under barrel mount.

    IMG_4411.png?scale.width=300&scale.png


    IMG_4425.png?scale.width=1024&scale.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019 at 11:50 PM
  21. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Thinking you'll be impressed if you can get a scope mounted on your gun. If nothing else it sure makes seeing where your hitting on the paper a lot easier.
     
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