jefnvk
Member
This is what teh Jihad is about, the 'mistreatment' of the Qua'rn 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7937016/site/newsweek/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7937016/site/newsweek/
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Qua'rn 'mistreatment' examples
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El Tejon
Member
Hey, any excuse to jihad.
If you are a 13 year old boy and the beautiful 21 year old woman ignores you, you don't need a reason to be upset. You already are upset.
If you are a 13 year old boy and the beautiful 21 year old woman ignores you, you don't need a reason to be upset. You already are upset.
Vernal45
member
Why Islam is disrespected
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | May 19, 2005
IT WAS front-page news this week when Newsweek retracted a report claiming that a US interrogator in Guantanamo had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet. Everywhere it was noted that Newsweek's story had sparked widespread Muslim rioting, in which at least 17 people were killed. But there was no mention of deadly protests triggered in recent years by comparable acts of desecration against other religions.
No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor, appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope John Paul II.
There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless, 1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in Afghanistan.
Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred.
Christians, Jews, and Buddhists don't lash out in homicidal rage when their religion is insulted. They don't call for holy war and riot in the streets. It would be unthinkable for a mainstream priest, rabbi, or lama to demand that a blasphemer be slain. But when Reuters reported what Mohammad Hanif, the imam of a Muslim seminary in Pakistan, said about the alleged Koran-flushers -- ''They should be hung. They should be killed in public so that no one can dare to insult Islam and its sacred symbols" -- was any reader surprised?
The Muslim riots should have been met by outrage and condemnation. From every part of the civilized world should have come denunciations of those who would react to the supposed destruction of a book with brutal threats and the slaughter of 17 innocent people. But the chorus of condemnation was directed not at the killers and the fanatics who incited them, but at Newsweek.
From the White House down, the magazine was slammed -- for running an item it should have known might prove incendiary, for relying on a shaky source, for its animus toward the military and the war. Over and over, Newsweek was blamed for the riots' death toll. Conservative pundits in particular piled on. ''Newsweek lied, people died" was the headline on Michelle Malkin's popular website. At NationalReview.com, Paul Marshall of Freedom House fumed: ''What planet do these [Newsweek] people live on? . . . Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them it was likely that people would die as a result of the article." All of Marshall's choler was reserved for Newsweek; he had no criticism at all for the marauders in the Muslim street.
Then there was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who announced at a Senate hearing that she had a message for ''Muslims in America and throughout the world." And what was that message? That decent people do not resort to murder just because someone has offended their religious sensibilities? That the primitive bloodlust raging in Afghanistan and Pakistan was evidence of the Muslim world's dysfunctional political culture?
No: Her message was that ''disrespect for the Holy Koran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States."
Granted, Rice spoke while the rioting was still taking place and her goal was to reduce the anti-American fever. But what ''Muslims in America and throughout the world" most need to hear is not pandering sweet-talk. What they need is a blunt reminder that the real desecration of Islam is not what some interrogator in Guantanamo might have done to the Koran. It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11 and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and exhortations to ''martyrdom."
But what disgraces Islam above all is the vast majority of the planet's Muslims saying nothing and doing nothing about the jihadist cancer eating away at their religion. It is Free Muslims Against Terrorism, a pro-democracy organization, calling on Muslims and Middle Easterners to ''converge on our nation's capital for a rally against terrorism" -- and having only 50 people show up.
Yes, Islam is disrespected. That will only change when throngs of passionate Muslims show up for rallies against terrorism, and when rabble-rousers trying to gin up a riot over a defiled Koran can't get the time of day.
Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is [email protected].
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | May 19, 2005
IT WAS front-page news this week when Newsweek retracted a report claiming that a US interrogator in Guantanamo had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet. Everywhere it was noted that Newsweek's story had sparked widespread Muslim rioting, in which at least 17 people were killed. But there was no mention of deadly protests triggered in recent years by comparable acts of desecration against other religions.
No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor, appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope John Paul II.
There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless, 1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in Afghanistan.
Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred.
Christians, Jews, and Buddhists don't lash out in homicidal rage when their religion is insulted. They don't call for holy war and riot in the streets. It would be unthinkable for a mainstream priest, rabbi, or lama to demand that a blasphemer be slain. But when Reuters reported what Mohammad Hanif, the imam of a Muslim seminary in Pakistan, said about the alleged Koran-flushers -- ''They should be hung. They should be killed in public so that no one can dare to insult Islam and its sacred symbols" -- was any reader surprised?
The Muslim riots should have been met by outrage and condemnation. From every part of the civilized world should have come denunciations of those who would react to the supposed destruction of a book with brutal threats and the slaughter of 17 innocent people. But the chorus of condemnation was directed not at the killers and the fanatics who incited them, but at Newsweek.
From the White House down, the magazine was slammed -- for running an item it should have known might prove incendiary, for relying on a shaky source, for its animus toward the military and the war. Over and over, Newsweek was blamed for the riots' death toll. Conservative pundits in particular piled on. ''Newsweek lied, people died" was the headline on Michelle Malkin's popular website. At NationalReview.com, Paul Marshall of Freedom House fumed: ''What planet do these [Newsweek] people live on? . . . Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them it was likely that people would die as a result of the article." All of Marshall's choler was reserved for Newsweek; he had no criticism at all for the marauders in the Muslim street.
Then there was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who announced at a Senate hearing that she had a message for ''Muslims in America and throughout the world." And what was that message? That decent people do not resort to murder just because someone has offended their religious sensibilities? That the primitive bloodlust raging in Afghanistan and Pakistan was evidence of the Muslim world's dysfunctional political culture?
No: Her message was that ''disrespect for the Holy Koran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States."
Granted, Rice spoke while the rioting was still taking place and her goal was to reduce the anti-American fever. But what ''Muslims in America and throughout the world" most need to hear is not pandering sweet-talk. What they need is a blunt reminder that the real desecration of Islam is not what some interrogator in Guantanamo might have done to the Koran. It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11 and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and exhortations to ''martyrdom."
But what disgraces Islam above all is the vast majority of the planet's Muslims saying nothing and doing nothing about the jihadist cancer eating away at their religion. It is Free Muslims Against Terrorism, a pro-democracy organization, calling on Muslims and Middle Easterners to ''converge on our nation's capital for a rally against terrorism" -- and having only 50 people show up.
Yes, Islam is disrespected. That will only change when throngs of passionate Muslims show up for rallies against terrorism, and when rabble-rousers trying to gin up a riot over a defiled Koran can't get the time of day.
Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is [email protected].
One of the Islamic governments to protest the alleged desecreation of the Koran was none other than Saudi Arabia - where possession of a Bible is against the law. Saudi police raid private gathering where Christians hold worship services, seizing and destroying Bibles, crucifixes, etc. In 1993 the Saudi government even beheaded one Saudi citizen for his possession of a Bible. Since Saudi Arabia is our "ally," we didn't hear much about it.
DesertEagle613
Member
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Here's what I don't get. AFAIK, Islam has a legal structure (if not content) similar to that of Judaism. But I know that in Judaism, we have extremely precise rules for when we are allowed to kill.
Is there anything at all similar in Islam? Because it looks like in practice at least, the rules are much more lax.
Is there anything at all similar in Islam? Because it looks like in practice at least, the rules are much more lax.
One of the Islamic governments to protest the alleged desecreation of the Koran was none other than Saudi Arabia - where possession of a Bible is against the law. Saudi police raid private gathering where Christians hold worship services, seizing and destroying Bibles, crucifixes, etc. In 1993 the Saudi government even beheaded one Saudi citizen for his possession of a Bible. Since Saudi Arabia is our "ally," we didn't hear much about it.
Islam is a backward religion. We should only be allies with countries that have similar values to are own.
-Bill
duck hunt
Member
Islam is a backward religion.
Wow. Just wow.
But you have no qualms against eating up free bandwidth provided to you by a Muslim? Just askin'.
DesertEagle, Islam *does* have very specific rules about when killing is permitted -- I actually was researching it yesterday and found I think two specific instances in the Qu'uran where killing someone was permitted as opposed to about thirty in the bible. That said, there are Muslims who pay about as much attention to the tenets of their holy book as do many Christians. Every religion has its bad eggs and hypocrites, but that doesn't make the religion itself "backward."
jefnvk
Member
Yep, duck hunt is right here. It is not the religion that is the problem, it is a few people. I imagine most Muslims will not go on a murderous rampage because of this incident, only a few ones that use their religion as an excuse.
I brought this up not as a bashing Islam post, but as a 'here is what the complaints are this time' post. IMHO, accidently knocking Qua'rn out of the bedside holder, or placing one on a TV is hardly a mistreatment of prisoners.
Heck, are free Bibles even provided to Americans captured by Iraqis, let alone freely available to the population? How come our news can't focus on 'when this Muslim was captured, he was provided a Qua'rn to read. He was given treatement for malnourishment, and now gets three meals a day. The guards are trying to be careful not to offend his religion', Instead of 'An anoynomous source told us he heard that a prisoner stated that a guard crammed his Qua'rn down a toilet'?
I brought this up not as a bashing Islam post, but as a 'here is what the complaints are this time' post. IMHO, accidently knocking Qua'rn out of the bedside holder, or placing one on a TV is hardly a mistreatment of prisoners.
Heck, are free Bibles even provided to Americans captured by Iraqis, let alone freely available to the population? How come our news can't focus on 'when this Muslim was captured, he was provided a Qua'rn to read. He was given treatement for malnourishment, and now gets three meals a day. The guards are trying to be careful not to offend his religion', Instead of 'An anoynomous source told us he heard that a prisoner stated that a guard crammed his Qua'rn down a toilet'?
That said, there are Muslims who pay about as much attention to the tenets of their holy book as do many Christians. Every religion has its bad eggs and hypocrites, but that doesn't make the religion itself "backward."
Mohammed himself was a bandit and had a 9 y/o bride.
-Bill
duck hunt
Member
Mohammed himself was a bandit and had a 9 y/o bride.
Rather than start pointing out examples of naughtiness in the Bible, I would respectfully suggest you find another playground where bashing people's religions is acceptable. This board is run by a Muslim, has Muslim members and does not welcome your brand of bigotry.
Thanks.
quick edit to add that during that time period nine year old brides were not uncommon given life expectancies and living situations -- marriages were not always consummated right away either.
duck hunt
Member
It's hard not to bash Islam, since it's a profoundly anti-Western ideology, and the vast majority of board members are Westerners.
True Islam is not a profoundly anti-Western ideology. There are many Muslims in all parts of the world, including the west.
Saying "it's hard not to bash" something you don't agree with is a cop-out. A little self-restraint shouldn't be that difficult for intelligent, civilized people.
I read the koran, and I found it to be about the mirror-opposite of modern Western culture. From my reading, it seems the so-called "moderate" muslems are the ones who are wrong, and the so-called "radicals" are the ones reading it correctly.True Islam is not a profoundly anti-Western ideology.
duck hunt
Member
But one could also say the Bible is the "mirror opposite of western culture" given the change in time, lifestyle and social mores represented therein. One must take into account the audience for whom the book was written at the time.
I know we aren't supposed to get into theology here, but my point is simply that no matter how much we may disagree with something, that doesn't mean we have to bash it. Just click past posts about it.
I know we aren't supposed to get into theology here, but my point is simply that no matter how much we may disagree with something, that doesn't mean we have to bash it. Just click past posts about it.
Vernal45
member
I read the koran, and I found it to be about the mirror-opposite of modern Western culture. From my reading, it seems the so-called "moderate" muslems are the ones who are wrong, and the so-called "radicals" are the ones reading it correctly.
Bingo! Nail on the head time..
jefnvk
Member
Remember, deep down Islam, Christianity and Judaism all are worshiping the same God. The difference is in what parts of history they choose to accept as the proper truths of their religion.
As for those saying that Islam is anti-Western, the Amish ain't exactly the poster children of the Western culture. And the Bible certainly doesn't embrace some of the new Western values that seem to be taking a foothold (i.e. abortion, gay marraiges)
I'm sorry I started an Islam bashing thread.
As for those saying that Islam is anti-Western, the Amish ain't exactly the poster children of the Western culture. And the Bible certainly doesn't embrace some of the new Western values that seem to be taking a foothold (i.e. abortion, gay marraiges)
I'm sorry I started an Islam bashing thread.
duck hunt
Member
Hey, man, not your fault. Besides, sometimes I'm grateful when these things happen -- gives folks a chance to show their true colors.
You're right on the money, though as far as same roots, same God -- and we can pick bits out of any holy book out of context if we want to prove how "backwards" they are.
You're right on the money, though as far as same roots, same God -- and we can pick bits out of any holy book out of context if we want to prove how "backwards" they are.
Preacherman
Member
Folks, we do not, repeat, NOT, bash other religions on THR. We may respectfully disagree with their views, but we don't express this here, nor do we label their followers as being idiots - or worse - because of their religion.
It's been my experience that idiots are idiots in spite of, rather than because of, their religious beliefs. I don't think that Islam, as a religion, has anything to do with the excesses of some of its followers, just as I don't think that Christianity can be blamed for the fanaticism and criminal conduct of some alleged Christians in various way-out-there sects.
I'm closing this thread to prevent further religious intolerance.
It's been my experience that idiots are idiots in spite of, rather than because of, their religious beliefs. I don't think that Islam, as a religion, has anything to do with the excesses of some of its followers, just as I don't think that Christianity can be blamed for the fanaticism and criminal conduct of some alleged Christians in various way-out-there sects.
I'm closing this thread to prevent further religious intolerance.
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