Question for any Vets on target shooting

[FLAvalanche]

It depends on your assignments in the Navy.

The Navy can be the worst when it comes to weapons/marksmanship. Usually on our deployments, which were always on a Naval Amphibious ship, usually an LSD, we had firearms training days.

Everyone would bring their guns to the flight deck and we would cross train. We'd even take one of our AAVs up there and let the Navy and the grunts shoot the guns in our turret. Grunts brought out their toys. The Navy brought out the single and coax .50 cals on the mounts around the flight deck. Even the CIWS got some exercise.

What always suprised us what that us Amtracers, because of our infinite knowledge on the .50 cal, always had to train the navy gunners how to mount, head space, time, clean, maintain and fire their .50 cals. They simply never did it.

I've been on 5 different LSDs where we had range days and it was always the same. The Navy personnel just didn't use their guns enough to retain the knowledge. It was sad.

 

[Tim the student]

Army regs require ONE record fire qualification per year, however, trigger time largely depends on the unit / MOS.

Different missions, different unit standards.

I agree that it depends largely on unit. I was in 1st ID, and we did the once a year thing - in my experience, my unit placed a really low standards on basic skills. It was by far the worst unit I was ever in. But, we had tanks, and that was where they placed their priority. Came back to bite the leaders in the ass when they learned they would need to make up for a long lack of training when we deployed.

But, I was also in a few Airborne units, and we shot much more than that. We qualified a few times a year, and shot more than that. The last time that I did CQB stuff, we probably each shot around a thousand rounds - which was more than I ever did in training in 1st ID.

 

[dinky Dau Don]

US Army '56 - '65 Qualifying - Division SOP was twice a year - I averaged 300 rds a day 5 days a week and 200 rds on weekends with the M1 then M1A (did I forget to mention for 5 years I was on a Division Rifle team).

As for training that might be above and beyond a civilian = Basic training - Advanced Infantry Training (made basic seem like scout camp) - Ranger School (made AIT seem like girl scout camp) - Jungle Warfare School (not real useful in civilian life) - three tours Southeast Asia (made me really appreciate the previous two schools).

 

[gloucestergarand]

Varied Army career in the Big Green from 76-96. Three memorable fun days:

a. Tanker at Ft. Lewis, WA...back when we had M60A1's and were issued 1911's and M3's...went to a pistol range and for some unknown reason, far too much .45 ball showed up and it couldn't be returned...we'd be there all night firing our .45's...until somebody got the bright idea to bring out our M3 grease guns and every 30 round mag in the arms room. Made for a fun afternoon!

b. Air Cav in Korea...somehow 2ID got a bunch of AKM's and 7.62x39 and directed "familiarization fire training"....so we aviators got to play for several hours with spanking new AKM's and all the ammo we could shoot...and didn't have to clean'em!

c. Loggy HQs in northern Germany before the wall fell...had a really worthless HQs commandant...a QM CPT, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Failed to qual with his .45...despite many on the staff bending over backwards giving him additional training (and ammo). CG got highly irritated and directed him to qual with the M16...guy bolo'd just as bad...again despite help from Rod & Gun clubbers and long-time NCO's...the QM CPT simply couldn't shoot. In the end, amongst other inefficiencies...I do remember the officer getting a less than stellar command OER that included a statement...this officer failed to qualify on any of the individual weapons assigned to his command....

 

[RevDerb]

In the Navy, once a year I had to show that I knew which end to point at the target, how to load it, and where the trigger was basically.

 

[Jahmby68]

Army- Airborne Infantry 85-95: We qualified every 90 days on each weapon system so they staggered them and so it seemed we were shooting SOMETHING every month. The more expensive things (AT-4/ Dragons AT missiles & M203 40mm grenade launcher was almost always sub-munitions.

 

[pyth0n]

U.S.A.F. 1970-1991. I had to qualify annually unless I fired expert, then it was every three years. We fired the S&W model 15, .38 spl. I fired the M-16 in basic and not again until 16 years later for a base sponsored, all local squadrons, competition. I thought SP, LE, and Munitions people shot more, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

[jonmerritt]

At least 3 or 4 times a month if I wasn't on assignment. I was based in Germany, but was sent all over on various assignments that always required a weapon. I was a Cav Scout in the begining, but things changed in the process after basic. But that's another story. We went to the range often to keep our skills sharp.

 

[wideym]

While in the Army (Infantry) we would shoot for qualification right before EIB (Expert Infantrymans Badge) training otherwise we would only seem to get funds for ammo right before the fical year ended (October), when the "use it or lose it" mentality took over. Sometimes we woud get to fire up all the old ammo cleaned out of the ASP, expecially old explosive stuff like mortar rounds, M202 (4 barreled rocket launcher IE:Commando), AT-4s and LAWs.

Right after Desert Storm, Bush SR. started the military drawdown and Clinton expanded on that during the 90's, meaning ammo budgets were pitiful. It took Iraq and Afganistan to increase range time budgets to a more acceptable level for all branches and MOSs. It's nice to see clerks, cooks, and mechanics getting quality firearms training before deploying and most taking it to heart rather than them carrying their assigned weapon only because they were made to.

 

[Ramman911]

Navy.... Ya nuff said

We would go back to the fantail/flight deck on occasion and pop off some .45, shotgun and m14. As long as we didn't shoot off the non skid we passed.

 

[Tim the student]

It took Iraq and Afganistan to increase range time budgets to a more acceptable level for all branches and MOSs.

Maybe in many cases, but not all. Some units were doing the right thing then too.

 

[swampsavage]

'65-69 w/US Army Security Agency...1st year (basic and advance schooling) only fired M-14 in Basic...3 yrs W Germany only went to range once for 40rd M-14...once, while on duty driver assignment, had to take a satchel of classified docs down to Geissen ('bout 90m south)...SOP called for being armed when such so off to the Autobahn w/ M-14 and 1 empty mag in the passenger seat of the Dodge sedan

 

[JohnBiltz]

My honest opinion is no unit shoot enough except for the Special Ops community. Some are just better than others and it always has been like that. Firearms use just gets tangled up in administrative BS. Range proticals alone make it difficult and there are just too many other demands on a units time.

 

[clamman]

USMC 74-81. Qualified with the M-16 and fam fired the 1911 in basic. Got to shoot the 50 cal. from a 6x6 while in driver training, also qualified with the 106 recoiless mounted to a 4x4 mule. After that just qual with the 16 once a year. Good ol' days.

 

[rfnut]

USMC 75-79. MOS 6636. So I only got to see live ammo once a year at the range.

 

[Ole Coot]

Late '60s, plenty of practice. I think we averaged about 50,000 rounds per hit. I couldn't attempt to count that high, too old to finish the count.

 

[kmcintosh78]

US Air Force 97-01. 100 rounds once a year with the M16.
As a LEO, at least 300 rounds every month.

 

[skoro]

USMC, 1974-1977

We had to qualify once each year with both the M16a1 and the M1911a1, and that was REAL target shooting. During the rest of the year in field exercises, we'd go through a lot of blank ammo, though.

 

[CZguy]

During the rest of the year in field exercises, we'd go through a lot of blank ammo, though.

Yea, I always shot expert with blanks.