Question from a complete newb

[Barry loyd]

Go to YouTube and find Gunblue490. The man is a wealth of information.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well fellas I finally grew a pair and tested out my first batch of .308’s. I’d really rather I had someone with me as the spot I go to is in BFE and preferably for this individual to have some sort of emergency medical training in case of a catastrophic miscalculation on my part.

I’ve been including my 100 round box homemade goodness the last 3 times I’ve been out there along with several boxes of the super bulk deal I got on some Winchester 180 gr soft points I’ve been burning up. After about 40 rounds of the store bought trying to connect with my full size steel silhouette with my AR10 at roughly 440 yards out hitting about 70% of the time I said screw it and decided to give my creations a day in court.

I drove back to my target, which looked like I’d been tagging it with 12ga 00 from 50 yards out and laid down a fresh coat of white with a crude bright orange circle roughly 6” in diameter in the middle of the chest. Back at my spot I loaded up. Not going to lie I was sweating/shaking a little for the first pull but once it was gone and I still had all fingers and my face was still there I settled down.

First shot pinged the bottom left of the target (assuming the nervous shakes I made no adjustments) and second came in low middle. The rest of the mag was spent walking the shots upwards into the orange. Once on point I’ll be damned if the next 30 rounds didn’t leave about a 3.5” inch area of bare metal inside my rudimentary target.

At that point I was starting to lose day light and I questioned if my hand loads were really THAT much better or was it me focusing, breathing and controlling the trigger more efficiently. I repainted the target and using the same technique as I did with the handloads I put another 40 rounds of the Winchester softies down range and it again looked like I was using the scatter gun.

Next weekend I’ll set up at 100 yards and actually do some 5 shot group testing but I am feeling A LOT better about my hand loading venture and a lot of thanks needs to go out to all of you that took the time to guide me.

So...thank you all.

That sounds like outstanding results to me.

Yes, your handloads can be that much better than factory ammo and at a discounted price too. Keep up the good work and remember, don't sweat the small things and remember to have fun.

Very good results for sure!

 

[Bixster_inc]

Thank you.

I’m still in somewhat awe, I didnt know the factory stuff I was running was THAT bad.

I’m a reloader for life.

 

[Blue68f100]

It does not surprise me that your loads were more consistent. Particularly when your starting out, your triple checking everything. As you do more you will gain more confidence. Hand loading is a very enjoyable hobby with many great benefits. You will have a life time of enjoyment from it for years to come.

You had a great 1st outing.

 

[FROGO207]

I feel you picked a load that your rifle liked fairly well first thing. You never know about those things until the shots are fired. Remember that factory ammo HAS TO run "good enough" in most any firearm it is used in. Jack of all and master of none thing. Along with that automated filling and seating will induce some variances. Then your pouring them all into a box and grabbing them, more variances there between brands/lots. You are basically loading match quality ammo on your first outing compared to random factory rounds. I am sure fine tuning will better tour groups. Sorry but I agree the diagnosis is that you have reloaditus big time!

 

[FROGO207]

After a little reflecting I find that having the equipment and all the reload data already done/worked up for everything that I reload/shoot is a good thing. Then when you have to rely on rolling your own you already know what propellants work and the experimentation need not waste resources. I can reload things like 9MM, 762X39, 762X54, and other inexpensive (for now) ammo IF I need to but choose to purchase store bought for now. In the firearms world things can change literally over night so being prepared is prudent. Buying in bulk, especially on line for Haz-Mat items will save you big money. I keep supplies enough to shoot for 5+ years ahead of anticipated need to insulate me from supply problems and as a hedge against cost increases. Just a few things to think about when you have that bit of extra cash to use at your discretion.

 

[Dudedog]

and there are some, like Perfecta, that are notorious for having off-center flash holes.

Perfecta brass = not even close to perfect,= brass

 

[thomas15]

This not a cheap "hobby". You will be compounding problems and frustration unless you start fresh.

^^^This is in my opinion the big thing about handloading. I think a lot of beginners to handloading are obsessed with saving money and as a fringe benefit get more accurate ammo. It is true that you can get started handloading on a budget but to get everything you really need and works well and robust in construction is for most of us going to require writing out a few checks. And while the mechanics of handloading are basic as the OP is finding out it can take considerable time to educate yourself on the minutia depending on what level you want to take this hobby. The negative is that once you get an understanding of what exactly you want to accomplish it is almost impossible to revert back to factory ammo.

I’ve been thinking about getting into reloading since the great ammo famine of 2012/2013. Especially since and this leads to arguments every time I say it but off the shelf stuff is not as good as it was when I got back into shooting in 2010.

I’ve found every excuse not to do it. Initial cost, too technical, lack of free time, lack of space, need and since I’ll be trading states next year so I figured it’d be more stuff to move. For the last year I’ve been stockpiling everytime I see ammo on sale as here in Californistan we can no longer buy ammo online without having it shipped to an FFL for pickup and by the time the shop you send it to charges to “handle” your shipment it negates the savings you were trying to get. Next year the rules change again and rumor has it I’ll have to get a license to buy ammo and the seller will have to report large quantity purchases to local authorities. Reloading circumnavigates all this mess.

I think most of us here have a similar experience sans the California lifestyle. The problem is of course we start accumulating the gear and components needed for just about every conceivable situation imaginable. Only on a handloading forum is it safe to admit that I own tooling to handload for calibers that I don't have firearms for LOL!

 

[Bixster_inc]

^^^This is in my opinion the big thing about handloading. I think a lot of beginners to handloading are obsessed with saving money and as a fringe benefit get more accurate ammo. It is true that you can get started handloading on a budget but to get everything you really need and works well and robust in construction is for most of us going to require writing out a few checks. And while the mechanics of handloading are basic as the OP is finding out it can take considerable time to educate yourself on the minutia depending on what level you want to take this hobby. The negative is that once you get an understanding of what exactly you want to accomplish it is almost impossible to revert back to factory ammo.



I think most of us here have a similar experience sans the California lifestyle. The problem is of course we start accumulating the gear and components needed for just about every conceivable situation imaginable. Only on a handloading forum is it safe to admit that I own tooling to handload for calibers that I don't have firearms for LOL!

I was mocked heavily in my circle for being the first to take the plunge into making my own rounds.

California is terrible and only getting worse, I really wanted to get out of here before our next Governor is anointed because he’s going to make the current look like a right wing extremist.

I was asked how much I’ve spent on reloading stuff and I honestly have lost track. I guesstimated between equipment and components I’m over 2k. Didn’t take long for me to start getting texts with links for ammo deals at one of our few remaining gun stores (we’ve lost 4 in less than 2 months) saying I could’ve bought “X” amount of ammo for what I’ve dropped.

Saturday night I sent out a group text message with a pic of my grouping stating I finally used my rounds. “Big whoop” was the response followed by LOL’s.

Then I told them it was at 440 yds (my friends shoot a max of 200, I’m the only one with aspirations of 1000+) and the LOL’s turned into requests to come by my house so I can show them what I’m doing.

This gives me satisfaction.

 

[Toprudder]

I was mocked heavily in my circle for being the first to take the plunge into making my own rounds.

Saturday night I sent out a group text message with a pic of my grouping stating I finally used my rounds. “Big whoop” was the response followed by LOL’s.

Then I told them it was at 440 yds (my friends shoot a max of 200, I’m the only one with aspirations of 1000+) and the LOL’s turned into requests to come by my house so I can show them what I’m doing.

I was just about to tell you that you need to find a new circle. Good work, and keep the faith!

 

[Walkalong]

This is the tendency, we start to save money, but end up just shooting more for the same money, or worse. It's like anything else, it takes discipline to curb the spending, but we can shoot more for the dollar spent.

 

[thomas15]

Saturday night I sent out a group text message with a pic of my grouping stating I finally used my rounds. “Big whoop” was the response followed by LOL’s.

Then I told them it was at 440 yds (my friends shoot a max of 200, I’m the only one with aspirations of 1000+) and the LOL’s turned into requests to come by my house so I can show them what I’m doing.

This gives me satisfaction.

I think just about everyone that owns and shoots firearms, especially (dare I say it) younger males, have the idea that handloading saves ton's of money and many, it seems, talk about starting to handload. However, talking about it and actually doing it are two vastly different things. Guys that don't know you handload will tell you that it's a great way to save money. Then you mention that you have some first hand experience, offer to let them give it a go, then suddenly they remember that they have to take their girlfriend for long walks on the beach. I think deep down, even the most optimistic of us know that you really don't save money (total dollars spent) handloading ammo. Plus there is a time and space requirement. BTW, I need to assemble 2000 rounds 9mm within the next week, I ordered 8000 bullets last night.

 

[fotheringill]

Walkalong-

Never mind the added cost to "save" money, there is a huge shift in leisure time allocation since a lot more time is spent doing what one does to chase that perfect round.

 

[Walkalong]

there is a huge shift in leisure time allocation

It's not for everyone.

 

[Poper]

The RCBS hand priming tool that came with my kit is crap, and I’m open to suggestions for an upgrade. I thought it was bad jamming up with small rifle primers every 10 or so a few nights ago until I did large rifle primers today and only on out of 10 went smoothly. It took an hour and a half to seat 100 primers. If this is normal please let me know so I can throw all my equipment on craigslist....kidding.

Regarding your RCBS hand priming tool: Contact RCBS, I believe they will ask you to return it and will replace it (maybe repair it) for no charge. I have a lot of RCBS equipment and they have never let me down when I have had an issue.

With that said, my current favorite priming tool is the Lee Auto Bench Prime. Inexpensive and it works very well mounted to 1x3x7 a piece of oak. Be aware there is a generous use of plastic in its design and it can be broken by applying too much pressure to the press' lever. (Please do ask how I discovered this...) Also, mine came with the pot metal body halves over tightened. It's a simple thing to save a little frustration by loosening the screws holding the halves together and then snugging them up, but not tight. If you buy one, save yourself a headache and buy the set of shell holders for it. They are cheap will will fit all but a few chamberings.

BTW, I am one of those guys that have used a multitude of priming tools from RCBS, Lyman, Lee, Lachmiller, Dillon, Redding and probably a couple others. Most I still have, some I have given away or traded off. So far, the LEE Auto Bench Prime gives me the pain-free use (arthritis) and good feel for fully seated primers. And it is pretty quick, too. Primers that get in sideways is a rarity, but has happened a few times.

I will throw in two inexpensive tool suggestions: 1) Buy a stuck case remover - You will eventually stick a case in a die. (We all have done it.) 2) Buy a universal decapping tool. Comes in real handy when you really need it.

Enjoy the obsession! The rest of us do!

 

[Bixster_inc]

So loaded up another 100 rounds of .308 last night shooting for an OAL of 2.8” and ended up all over the board from < 2.790” to > 2.810”. Not sure where I went wrong because my first 100 were mostly 2.8” with a few over or under by .002 at the most. Bullets are all from the same box the last 100 came from and everything fits the mags. I’m thinking of pulling anything that’s off .005”+ in either direction tonight and trying again, thoughts?

EDIT: I guess I wouldn’t pull the longs, I’d just run them through the press again.

 

[Bixster_inc]

Regarding your RCBS hand priming tool: Contact RCBS, I believe they will ask you to return it and will replace it (maybe repair it) for no charge. I have a lot of RCBS equipment and they have never let me down when I have had an issue.

With that said, my current favorite priming tool is the Lee Auto Bench Prime. Inexpensive and it works very well mounted to 1x3x7 a piece of oak. Be aware there is a generous use of plastic in its design and it can be broken by applying too much pressure to the press' lever. (Please do ask how I discovered this...) Also, mine came with the pot metal body halves over tightened. It's a simple thing to save a little frustration by loosening the screws holding the halves together and then snugging them up, but not tight. If you buy one, save yourself a headache and buy the set of shell holders for it. They are cheap will will fit all but a few chamberings.

BTW, I am one of those guys that have used a multitude of priming tools from RCBS, Lyman, Lee, Lachmiller, Dillon, Redding and probably a couple others. Most I still have, some I have given away or traded off. So far, the LEE Auto Bench Prime gives me the pain-free use (arthritis) and good feel for fully seated primers. And it is pretty quick, too. Primers that get in sideways is a rarity, but has happened a few times.

I will throw in two inexpensive tool suggestions: 1) Buy a stuck case remover - You will eventually stick a case in a die. (We all have done it.) 2) Buy a universal decapping tool. Comes in real handy when you really need it.

Enjoy the obsession! The rest of us do!

I’ll definitely look into those, thanks.

I was a construction plumber for a few years after high school doing nothing but threading and installing metal pipe. 50-60 hours a week of using a pipe wrench has me inadvertently destructive to many handheld tools/devices to this day so I’m going to need to find a tough one or buy a few backups.

 

[SamT1]

How do you feel about their .308 brass? I’ve got a grocery bag full of it that I’d love to make into match grade quality food for my AR-10 but I’m not 100% sure on powder charges for milsurp brass.

I shoot exclusivly LC 308 brass. Commercial data is fine. I’ve chronod loads at max in lots of different 308 brass and even converted 243 and still get low SD. It’s very forgiving.

 

[Poper]

So loaded up another 100 rounds of .308 last night shooting for an OAL of 2.8” and ended up all over the board from < 2.790” to > 2.810”. Not sure where I went wrong because my first 100 were mostly 2.8” with a few over or under by .002 at the most. Bullets are all from the same box the last 100 came from and everything fits the mags. I’m thinking of pulling anything that’s off .005”+ in either direction tonight and trying again, thoughts?

EDIT: I guess I wouldn’t pull the longs, I’d just run them through the press again.

Sometimes a variation like you describe will be caused by a dirty seating die or stem button. Try disassembling the die and cleaning it well. Then reassemble with an extremely light coat of gun oil. Then check your variances again.

Sometimes variance can be caused by crud in the shell holder, but usually that much crud will make placing the case in the shell holder problematic.

Some seating dies are more consistent than others. My Redding competition die is probably the most consistent. Running neck and neck in second place are my RCBS Competition Bullet Seating Die and, believe it or not, a Lee bullet seating die of the specific caliber being loaded. (The seating die included in my Lee 6.5x55 die set is every bit as consistent as the RCBS Competition die.)

 

[Bixster_inc]

Sometimes a variation like you describe will be caused by a dirty seating die or stem button. Try disassembling the die and cleaning it well. Then reassemble with an extremely light coat of gun oil. Then check your variances again.

Sometimes variance can be caused by crud in the shell holder, but usually that much crud will make placing the case in the shell holder problematic.

Some seating dies are more consistent than others. My Redding competition die is probably the most consistent. Running neck and neck in second place are my RCBS Competition Bullet Seating Die and, believe it or not, a Lee bullet seating die of the specific caliber being loaded. (The seating die included in my Lee 6.5x55 die set is every bit as consistent as the RCBS Competition die.)

I’m working with Hornady dies because they fit the initial budget (I’ve long blown by that number and the several revised budgets since) and someone I trust said they’d be a good starting point. I’ll definitely clean them out before I seat some rounds tonight for tomorrow.

I was able to fix the longs but apparently I’ve got serious neck tension because no matter how hard I gorilla’d it my bullet puller they didn’t budge but I’m going to run them anyways. It would seem I’ve finally found something in life where I’d rather be too short than too long.

If I ever get the 6.5 cm precision rifle up and going I’m definitely investing in Redding dies for it, until then I picked up some Hornady micro adjusters for my .308 and .223 dies so I can make what I’ve got a little more technical.

 

[Bixster_inc]

Regarding your RCBS hand priming tool: Contact RCBS, I believe they will ask you to return it and will replace it (maybe repair it) for no charge. I have a lot of RCBS equipment and they have never let me down when I have had an issue.

With that said, my current favorite priming tool is the Lee Auto Bench Prime. Inexpensive and it works very well mounted to 1x3x7 a piece of oak. Be aware there is a generous use of plastic in its design and it can be broken by applying too much pressure to the press' lever. (Please do ask how I discovered this...) Also, mine came with the pot metal body halves over tightened. It's a simple thing to save a little frustration by loosening the screws holding the halves together and then snugging them up, but not tight. If you buy one, save yourself a headache and buy the set of shell holders for it. They are cheap will will fit all but a few chamberings.

BTW, I am one of those guys that have used a multitude of priming tools from RCBS, Lyman, Lee, Lachmiller, Dillon, Redding and probably a couple others. Most I still have, some I have given away or traded off. So far, the LEE Auto Bench Prime gives me the pain-free use (arthritis) and good feel for fully seated primers. And it is pretty quick, too. Primers that get in sideways is a rarity, but has happened a few times.

I will throw in two inexpensive tool suggestions: 1) Buy a stuck case remover - You will eventually stick a case in a die. (We all have done it.) 2) Buy a universal decapping tool. Comes in real handy when you really need it.

Enjoy the obsession! The rest of us do!

I spotted a Hornady hand priming tool at a place that doesn’t sell anything related to firearms or outdoor equipment other than...well...the one Hornady hand priming tool they had on the shelf in the very back of the store next to the restroom entrance.

Assuming this was a sign from God I bought it and just primed 200 rounds in under 10 minutes with no hiccups and while simultaneously responding to a customer via text message.

What’s better is I don’t feel like I’ve been hand squeezing orange juice all day. I’m not sure if it’s just s better built device that operates with the lightest of touch or if it’s because I borrowed my friends Lyman case prep station and it had a primer pocket uniformer bit which I didn’t have before but I’d imagine if I had arthritis it’d be ideal.

Anyways it’s the one that comes with a trays for both Hornady and RCBS shell holders if you’re interested.

 

[Bixster_inc]

I shoot exclusivly LC 308 brass. Commercial data is fine. I’ve chronod loads at max in lots of different 308 brass and even converted 243 and still get low SD. It’s very forgiving.

I was examining my first batch of LC brass after I ran them through the tumbler and they looked better than the first time I prepped them. The Winchester stuff I’ve been saving up by peeling off that bulk case I bought not so much. I found a few with a very fine line indicating head seperation. I know I need to up the powder a little bit from what I put in the LC for the same results but I’m also cautious since a few of them didn’t hold up to one firing from the factory load.

I left about a 3.5” bare spot on my steel target with 30 rounds from 440yds away so I was pretty damn happy. I’m using 40 grains of Varget but I am curious and kind of want to add some powder and see if I can’t tune the load a little more to get even better results. Next on the list is to buy a chronograph. Any recommendations on which one I should get?