Questions about building an AR for long range accuracy

[joey93turbo]

I'm thinking of building or purchasing an AR for accuracy and distance. I already have an M4 for the short-medium range stuff. Would .223 suffice or should I be looking at .308? how far is the .223 accurate to? what're the advantages of the .308 over the .223? I don't really know what I want but I see these AR's with large scopes, heavy barrels, and bipods and it gives me a little stiffy.

 

[moredes]

Most practical (not like "practical pistol competition", but it's regular grammatical usage) shooters will tell you that an AR set up for 'distance' is set up in .308. Them that ain't pros are satisfied with .223's out to 300yd. Beyond that, for the 'average' competition AR setup, .308's take over. The reason is both because of ballistic performance and the ability to tolerate the effect of wind. The distance you plan to shoot will generally dictate the caliber you need in your AR.

Also, the different range facilities may offer 'unfriendly' targets--some of the ranges I shot at made it tough on the .223. Paper out to 300yd, but silhouettes from 200-500yd, and all the silhouettes were too heavy for the .223 to knock them down. Even hearing the clang was tough at 500 on a windy day, IF you were good enough to hit it in a 10-15mph wind.

 

[oldfart]

I kinda lean toward the .308 too but last month, at a match here in Oregon, a young girl with a short-barreled AR in what appeared to be .223, shot a 1164-17 (out of 1300) at 800, 900 and 1000 yards. I didn't ask about her load but I did notice she was pulling rounds out of 'Black Hills' boxes.

 

[444]

There are a lot of factors that figure into your decision.
Obviously, one of them is what you are going to be shooting at. I do some long range shooting with an AR15 at steel reactive targets, paper targets and cardboard silhouettes. The terminal balistics of the bullet mean absolutely nothing to me in these pursuits. I am a sport shooter and use the gun/cartridge that happened to pull my chain when I opened the safe that day.
The .223 cartridge performs well in the service rifle matches which are shot out to 600 yards. It has made the .308 and .30-06 a thing of the past for the serious competitors.
One of our local clubs here shoots the NRA 1000 yard match on every month with a fourth Satruday as well as practice on Wednesday mornings. I have never participated but was told that the last match was won by a man shooting a .223.
The cartridge is capable of fine accuracy out past where you are likely to be able to shoot it.
If you are actually trying to kill a living animal with it, it runs out of steam long before it runs out of accuracy.

 

[joey93turbo]

From the sound of it, it sounds like I'm going to want something in .308. I don't want this just for target practice, should I ever have to use it for other reasons.

What're my choices in .308?

 

[Eightball]

Choices in .308?

Lots of 'em! Saiga's are good if you can still find them, there's FALs, AR-10's, .308 AR-15's (think DPMS)......or you could go for some milsurp stuff (SMLE in .303, MN 91/30, Mausers)--all big bore, good distance, blows the crap outta things . I only have 2 .308's, but love 'em both!

 

[NMshooter]

Just how much money are you willing (and able) to spend?



$4000 would not be out of line for a nice long range rifle.

 

[444]

Again, I have to ask: what are your criteria ?
What do you consider acceptable accuracy ?
What do you consider long range ?

I know what I consider long range and I know what I consider acceptable accuracy. No rack grade autoloader is that accurate and nothing milsurp is that accurate. My definition of accuracy and anything like an AK doesn't even belong in the same sentence. In addition, if I was putting together something strictly for long range, I wouldn't stop at .308. There are plenty of other cartridges that are far better for "long range".
If you consider 300 yards "long range" just about anything within reason will be minute of man at that range. A basic iron sighted AR15 is plenty for 300. If you are talking about 1000, that is a whole different world. As was already mentioned, what you are planning on spending ? Is this just a plinker where you might take a flyer at a big rock in the distance or are you going to be shooting groups on paper ?

You are not giving us a lot to base our answers on.

A few local guys including me are putting together rifles for shooting at long range: 1000 yards on paper. We all bought the same scope which was $1200 without ring, or mount: let alone rifle.

 

[threeseven]

An AR chambered in .243 Winchester would have to be pretty damn accurate at range, I should think.

 

[moredes]

Again, I have to ask: what are your criteria ?What do you consider acceptable accuracy ?
What do you consider long range ?

I know what I consider long range and I know what I consider acceptable accuracy. No rack grade autoloader is that accurate and nothing milsurp is that accurate. My definition of accuracy and anything like an AK doesn't even belong in the same sentence. In addition, if I was putting together something strictly for long range, I wouldn't stop at .308. There are plenty of other cartridges that are far better for "long range".

I agree completely with 444 last post; .308 is a fine 'average' choice for them (like me) that'll 'settle' for "general store" availability. .308 reloading components and tools are cheap, plentiful, and easy to find almost anywhere; as are riflesmiths, barrels, internet articles, etc. But there are other choices out there...they're just a little more 'specialized'.

You need to answer some questions (for yourself and the thread) to proceed any further to make a decision. What is accuracy to you? Ya wanna blow up a milk jug at 100yd, or hit a dime at 300 ? Will hitting something as big as a U-Haul truck at 800yd do, or do you wanna shoot 12" groups at that distance? The smaller you want, the more it costs....

 

[lightweight]

.308 armalite

i like my 5.56 guns but after 200 yds i switch to my ar-10 4x14 Nikon,it puts a bigger dent.

 

[nyresq]

The question of how far you want to shoot is in direct proportion to how much money you want to spend. The further you want to be able to hit targets the more money it will cost you for a match rifle. Almost any out of the box AR is adequate for 200 yards; beyond that you start moving into the range of factory heavy barrel ar rifles with free floated barrels. These will run a few hundred dollars more then a standard AR model. These will take you out to 500-600 yards. Beyond that the price gets very expensive to make a .223 shoot out to 800-900 yards. For a quarter to half that price you can go with a .308 that in a standard factory model will take you out to 800 yards with minimal smithing (trigger job, freefloated barrel).
One question I have is, at 1000 yards, do you really need a repeater?
A .308 bolt action at half the cost of a repeater, is capable of match accuracy at 1000 yards.
for instance a DPMS heavy barrel 308 runs in the neighborhood of $1200 while a Remington 700 PSS will cost you only $600. Both rifle prices are less optics of course.


I have my M4 for ranges below 200-300 yards, past that I take out my .308 bolt action.

 

[Houndawg]

A factory chrome lined 1/7 barrel on an AR15 will get you out to 500-600 yards no problem. It won't be as predictably accurate as a heavy barrel with a float tube, but tell that to the Marines who qualify out to 500 yards every day with box stock M16's. Or ask anybody who shoots Service Rifle with a stock commercial or military barrel. The AR15 will shoot a LOT farther than many people think. Contrary to popular belief, it's not limited to 200-300 yards.