Questions on Scenario

[Mr. Mosin]

Almost-Incident

First time I’ve ever genuinely wanted a gun on my person, in my hand in all my years was the other evening at Waffle House at 1am. Lady friend and I had been out for a night on the town, I’d had a few drinks (planned on such, left my ccw at home).

And yes… I know I screwed up royally just with “Waffle House”… let alone the “1 am”.

We were coming out, both totally sober; not a drop of alcohol in either of us (I’d fully sobered up hours earlier). Had her between myself and the wall heading back to the vehicle, this guy came along acting… odd; to say the least… something seemed… off. I mean gut-wrenching, spine-tingling *off*. Everything in me was on red-alert. He wasn’t obviously drunk or anything, but he was on *something*. My guts don’t normally react in such a way…

We steered clear of him, nothing happened… turns out the next day, saw on the news he was an escapee. Generally unassuming in appearance and clothing, minus the… airs he had about him.

All I know is one thing… I didn’t want a .22LR, .25 Auto, .32 Auto, .380 Auto, 9x19 Para., or anything else short of an M60 and a battalion of USMC Riflemen in full kit behind me. I *might* would’ve settled for my 870 fully stoked with 2-3/4” 00 buck. If I’d of had to settle for a handgun, it wouldn’t have been my .32 ACP- It would’ve been a 1911 Gov’t with Hornady CD, or a Ruger GP100 stoked with the same (they’re what I know and am familiar with).


So… I know I did well by steering clear (best way to win a fight is to simply…. never have said fight happen), and creating space (space equals time, time gives you options). Anything else I could’ve done (outside not drink), or should’ve done differently ?

Teach me, oh Wise Ones.

 

[GJeffB]

I'll toss some options, but clearly disavow the Wise One moniker.

We steered clear of him

That needs a little enhancement. Steered clear how, where? Generally the recommendation is a nonchalant change of direction, most likely a crossing the street. If the skel follows crossing, there's a most certain condition orange minimum. Depending on how far you are from the restaurant, return and reenter. Order another coffee, pretend to have forgotten something, get to a public area. That's no guarantee of safety, but it's discouraging to a bad doer. Loud noise, attention getting - shouting "Hey Horatio! It's me, Franklin! How are you?" to no one in particular. Again, bring attention, distract, determine intentions. The only thing else that comes to mind is intermediate obstacles. Detour around a parked car, bus stop, etc, putting some obstacle in between you and the skel, unobtrusively. Time and distance. And, even though you addressed ... wrong place, wrong time, party without alcohol and with a defensive means (firearm? Pepper spray? Knife [ugh knife fight is ugly]? ASP/Baton/stick? *BRIGHT* flashlight [some are really small and unobtrusive])

I suspect you know the answer, based on the question, but we can't always have perfection in life. We can most always have condition yellow at minimum, which includes an E & E plan if the condition escalates.
MHO, no particular recommendation, take it as you will, blahda blahda, YMMV

-jb

 

[westernrover]

If I knew that it wasn't wise to drink and carry, I would not drink. Better to carry and not drink than drink and not carry. It hadn't occurred to me that I need another reason not to drink, but that sounds like a fantastic one.

In my state, I think it's unlawful to drink and carry. I realize that may very well be why you didn't. I can recall in my CCW class, someone explaining the virtues of their wife having a permit and how one time they were at a street festival and started drinking. They suddenly realized they needed to transfer their firearm to their wife who was not and her having a permit made that lawful. As fascinating as that is, I'll just stay sober and armed.

As for wanting extraordinary firepower, I wouldn't concern yourself with that. Jim Cirillo more frequently than any of us ever will confronted armed robbers with deadly force. After doing it repeatedly, he felt his S&W Model 10 was completely adequate. He had additional guns available, but trusted the 38 to work fine because it had proven to do so. I don't think he used any special ammo either. This isn't any reason not to use the most effective equipment available to you, but to consider that equipment selection isn't going to make the biggest difference. What will make a lot of difference is having something rather than nothing.

 

[shafter]

It's generally not difficult to avoid trouble by casually steering yourself around it. I probably wouldn't have even thought of a gun until some sort of hostile behavior towards me was displayed. Guys like that are an easy day.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I'll toss some options, but clearly disavow the Wise One moniker.

That needs a little enhancement. Steered clear how, where? Generally the recommendation is a nonchalant change of direction, most likely a crossing the street. If the skel follows crossing, there's a most certain condition orange minimum. Depending on how far you are from the restaurant, return and reenter. Order another coffee, pretend to have forgotten something, get to a public area. That's no guarantee of safety, but it's discouraging to a bad doer. Loud noise, attention getting - shouting "Hey Horatio! It's me, Franklin! How are you?" to no one in particular. Again, bring attention, distract, determine intentions. The only thing else that comes to mind is intermediate obstacles. Detour around a parked car, bus stop, etc, putting some obstacle in between you and the skel, unobtrusively. Time and distance. And, even though you addressed ... wrong place, wrong time, party without alcohol and with a defensive means (firearm? Pepper spray? Knife [ugh knife fight is ugly]? ASP/Baton/stick? *BRIGHT* flashlight [some are really small and unobtrusive])

I suspect you know the answer, based on the question, but we can't always have perfection in life. We can most always have condition yellow at minimum, which includes an E & E plan if the condition escalates.
MHO, no particular recommendation, take it as you will, blahda blahda, YMMV

-jb

To address such, the vehicle in question (Mustang GT) was c. 10yds away, with the suspect individual in question on an intersecting course to meet us about halfway to the vehicle. I took note of him (I’m entirely unsure why), and my “Spidey-sense” went to code red… I would’ve done everything except clear leather, given a weapon on hand. Entirely unassuming individual, but everything in me screamed “threat”. Put myself between him and my lady friend, put her at arms reach and told her to “Get to the car- now. Don’t ask, just do.”


She took the cue, noticed the individual; and sped up. Got to the vehicle, locked ourselves in; and watched him saunter into the joint.

 

[Scrapiron45]

Something like this is a great opportunity for one to reevaluate their plans concerning self defense strategies. You've obviously had a chance to reconsider your unarmed attendance at late night diners so use the encounter as an education.
Suppose he stopped and asked for money or followed you to the car, neither of which would justify a display of lethal force, how would you be prepared to deal with that? And since you had a companion you felt responsible for, what if she had not picked up on the situation and followed your defensive actions , what then?
I think you did good so use your success in avoiding this confrontation and expand your thoughts and options to better be prepared for the next time .

 

[fastbolt]

Just out of curiosity ...

What kind of 'escapee' was he? County, state or federal? Pre-trial or convicted/sentenced? What crime(s)?

What actions and demeanor of his made you suspect he was 'on something'?

Being wanted by the law can sometimes tend to put some people on edge.

 

[Kleanbore]

What is an "almost incident"? What do you mean by "steered clear of him"? What are you asking?

 

[The Night Rider]

It's hard to evaluate nothing.

You went to a known trouble spot right around the time the bars closed. Probably nor your best work.

Waffle House - SNL

A couple (Jenna Ortega, Marcello Hernández) has a serious conversation about their relationship outside of the Waffle House.Saturday Night Live. Stream now o...

youtu.be

 

[shafter]

Just out of curiosity ...

What kind of 'escapee' was he? County, state or federal? Pre-trial or convicted/sentenced? What crime(s)?

What actions and demeanor of his made you suspect he was 'on something'?

Being wanted by the law can sometimes tend to put some people on edge.

I second this question. "Escapees" are usually people who walk away from minimum security prisons or "farms" where there aren't any fences. They typically aren't violent offenders, just people who have a bad track record with life.

A real escapee would be different but it's rare and difficult to escape from actual prison.

 

[scaatylobo]

Almost-Incident

First time I’ve ever genuinely wanted a gun on my person, in my hand in all my years was the other evening at Waffle House at 1am. Lady friend and I had been out for a night on the town, I’d had a few drinks (planned on such, left my ccw at home).

And yes… I know I screwed up royally just with “Waffle House”… let alone the “1 am”.

We were coming out, both totally sober; not a drop of alcohol in either of us (I’d fully sobered up hours earlier). Had her between myself and the wall heading back to the vehicle, this guy came along acting… odd; to say the least… something seemed… off. I mean gut-wrenching, spine-tingling *off*. Everything in me was on red-alert. He wasn’t obviously drunk or anything, but he was on *something*. My guts don’t normally react in such a way…

We steered clear of him, nothing happened… turns out the next day, saw on the news he was an escapee. Generally unassuming in appearance and clothing, minus the… airs he had about him.

All I know is one thing… I didn’t want a .22LR, .25 Auto, .32 Auto, .380 Auto, 9x19 Para., or anything else short of an M60 and a battalion of USMC Riflemen in full kit behind me. I *might* would’ve settled for my 870 fully stoked with 2-3/4” 00 buck. If I’d of had to settle for a handgun, it wouldn’t have been my .32 ACP- It would’ve been a 1911 Gov’t with Hornady CD, or a Ruger GP100 stoked with the same (they’re what I know and am familiar with).


So… I know I did well by steering clear (best way to win a fight is to simply…. never have said fight happen), and creating space (space equals time, time gives you options). Anything else I could’ve done (outside not drink), or should’ve done differently ?

Teach me, oh Wise Ones.

IF you learned from all the mistakes.

AND you never commit any of them EVER again = good on ya.

Otherwise,your a Darwin award away from ------------- you know !.

 

[westernrover]

You come off as being scared and irrationally fearful. It's been pointed out that you didn't describe any justification for use of force, but you wrote that you would have done everything but clear leather. You've been given some good advice on more responsible behavior, but I wonder if your imagination isn't also overly-active. You didn't describe how you came to know the person you saw was the escapee.

I once stayed at the county jail. I'll be specific. It was the Santa Clara County Jail in California. I was there for driving with a suspended license. Most of the other inmates were there for DUI or drug offenses. There were two facilities. The main jail is in the civic center north of downtown and adjacent to the courthouse, but it has insufficient capacity to house all the inmates. Elmwood is the larger facility in Milpitas, about 5 miles north of the civic center. It was notorious for the fact that inmates could escape and stop at the 7-Eleven or Taco Bell on Abel St. / S. Main / Oakland Rd. before returning to jail. If they had Waffle House in Milpitas, I'm sure inmates would have gone there too. Anything was better than the ice-cream scoop of mystery-meat casserole that passed for a meal in the jail.

Another time I was in a work furlough program, serving a 180-day sentence (I was released after 31 days). In that program, inmates were held overnight, but released to go to regular jobs during the day. I worked at a paper mill and power-generating plant (the paper mill had a cogen plant). I rode Caltrain every day back and forth. I could stop at a train station short of where I stayed and go into the old Mayfield Mall. That place is gone and now it is part of the Google campus. I'd go in there and get an espresso or cappuccino or something at the Italian import place, you know, because they didn't have that in jail. At that point, I was an escapee. I'd catch the bus to get back to the work furlough place. I could have decided not to go back and stay an escapee. But I remember the inmates for Memorial Day had a barbeque out in the exercise yard. This one brother from the south was cooking up some pork ribs with a sauce of his own recipe, and he said, "Woo-wee! You be commitin' crimes to get some of this sauce." The program probably had less than a hundred people. In my dorm of about 10, the guy opposite me was an illegal arms dealer, and the guy adjacent was on his third DUI. I remember there was one dude in there that made sure the place was kept super clean, and sanitized. He didn't want any sickness, and as long as I was there, nobody got sick.

I met some toughies too. One dude wanted to scrap because he believed I had sat down in the wrong lounge. He explained that I was in the lounge for Mexican Americans (nortenos). He pointed out the other lounge was for Mexican Mexicans, and the third lounge was for white boys, and that's where I needed to go. I hesitated because of his unfriendliness and he became convinced that he needed to intimidate me to avoid showing weakness.

I recommend for you to meet people that are different than you and get to know some. Ignorance and naivete result in fear, and that's not a good condition to carry a gun in. I was redeemed from my lawless youth, but since then I intentionally pursue thugs, hoodlums, punks, tweakers, waistoids, motorheads, gangbangers, junkies, thieves and other deviants. I do it to share the love of Jesus. If I saw your fella, I would hope that I would have said "howdy," and might have bought him a cup of coffee at the Waffle House. Most of the time I do outreach, I'm unarmed because I'm in California. California has no reciprocity and there is currently no way for a non-resident to get a permit. If I do carry in some place like Reno or Las Vegas, it's not because I'm scared of thugs. I carry emergency life-saving equipment to respond to people who are shooting at me. Creepy punks don't make me think about clearing leather, but about what could become of them for better or worse.

You'll learn a lot if you park the Mustang GT every once in a while and try taking the bus. No M60 or battalion of Marines required.

 

[Kleanbore]

Some good answers here. Not much more to be said about it.