Quick, Dumb AR cleaning time question

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I just cleaned a throttle body injector with gas last week; my dad grew up rebuilding carbs, using gas to clean them. Obviously, common sense is handy when doing so. Adequate ventilation, keep away from flame, gloves help, (though it's still COLD!) etc.
That said, there are better solvents for cleaning gun parts than gasoline.
 
The cleaning regimen you espouse is better suited for an AK than an AR. Run an AR 1000+ rounds wet and leave it sit until the next range trip, and you may have rock hard carbon buildup cause malfunctions. You might not, but why risk it?

Yes, I know about Robert McNamara and the bad reputation the M16 had when it was introduced. This gets brought up all the time.

And where did I say run a 1,000 rounds and leave it sit. I said that’s a good point to spend the time on a thorough cleaning. I have several AR’s (one being a x39 shooting dirty Russian steel) that have about 500 or so rounds sitting wet ready to go the next time I’m out. I’ll keep to my own experiences, as I’ve yet to have a problem.

It’s probably overkill at 1,000 rounds in all honesty for a complete breakdown and clean. There are minor cleanings and the obvious lube (keeping it wet) in key areas) that happen along the way, but it’s nothing major.
 
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Just don't clean it. Its a military rifle, it does not require pampering. Maybe dump a little oil in it once in a while. I run my AR's silenced, which gets them utterly filthy in short order. I almost never clean them, just add a little lube occasionally. If its puking out black sludge from every orifice, you're doing it right.:thumbup:
 
Never use gasoline as a solvent. When I was at Ft. Knox in the 1980's an NCO was using a tiny amount of gasoline to strip off boot polish prior to re-polishing. He was doing it in the kitchen, and the pilot light of his oven flashed the gasoline and killed him. There are plenty of other examples showing that it is not safe to use gasoline in this way.
Yes, indoors is dangerous, which is why I mentioned doing it outdoors in a safe manner. Aside from that, my question was will it work as a solvent for the grime accumulating on bolts? Is there anything it can harm on the bolt?
 
There are lots of chemicals in gasoline that are not great for your health that absorb through your skin and lungs. As a gearhead I get it on my hands enough as it is and spend enough time trying to scrub the smell off my skin before going in the house. I don't know why you would want to scrub gun parts in it.
 
One of the common misperceptions is that the gas tube somehow dumps an extraordinary amount of gas residue into the action. First, it does direct gas into the bolt carrier - which IS the gas cylinder and piston. Every one I have cleaned from the Garand up will get residue into the gas cylinder, it's like they designed it that way or something.

Same for the AR15.

What also happens is that, correctly timed, the bolt unlocks and starts retracting as it first part of the reloading cycle. There will be residual gas pressure in the barrel when this happens - it's trying to exhaust up to 11,000 psi at that point, and it all can't get out past the muzzle, any more than your tire with a nail in it can. It leaks down a little more slowly that a sudden explosive decompression, thank goodness. And since the bolt is unlocked and the brass is pushing on the bolt face, once it's moved just a fraction of an inch, gas pressure rushes past the casing. As it keeps retracting, the hole gets bigger until it's base diameter sized, dumping a lot of gas residue onto the bolt, carrier, and trigger parts. Not the tiny little tube high up in the receiver connected to a .061" or slightly larger gas port.

So, the tube feeds the gas cylinder inside the bolt carrier, and the chamber dumps most of the residue into the action. And that's the way it is with ALL self loading guns. Even blowback .22's - you eject dirty brass and have to clean them, too. No gas tubes or nuthin. If you have owned a roller locked HK you certainly experienced it - again, no gas action at all, dirty brass and dirty action. I had to clean more residue out of it when I owned one firing a mag of .308 than a couple of mags in my 5.56's. Government powders are the cheapest bid and aren't known for cleanliness. They do that because a battle weapon requires daily maintenance No Matter What just to clean off the mud, rain, dust, and lunch. Dragging it thru the local environment with three second rushes, low crawling, crossing streams and ditches - you clean it daily or else. Gas residue isn't the real problem in combat, and a basic load of 10-15 30 round mags won't dirty it up enough to cause a stoppage.

In the field it gets a bit of oil, you wipe it down with the tail of your t-shirt, and you do it during your assigned down time on overwatch. That is the standard for a combat gun, and the M16 design allows you to get to the gas cylinder in seconds, unlike the armorer level machinations involved on typical piston designs. And as for a piston AR - be aware, every one is proprietary. You can only buy spare parts from the maker, and there are already a few who have gone out of business. It's a boutique adaptation, not combat proven and certainly out of the mainstream when you need to fix it.

We went to this design decades ago, when we had 1 in 10 who were service veterans and every one trained in maintaining a piston gun. It wasn't wrong to say the M16 was a gun that "didn't need cleaning" when compared to the much longer down time of the Garand or M14. It was a fraction of the time needed and didn't involve special tools and a ground mat to do it. What got a fly in the ointment was ramping up production four fold, bad chambers in outsourced barrels, and powder lots which were repurposed from their intended use in much larger weapons. McNamara and the whiz kids ARE to blame, it's what happens when you let people who are not qualified subject matter experts to make decisions.

Like that has changed for the better? Well, in the Army, yes, even newly minted Generals get instruction from Specialists on their area of expertise. This is why it's important to largely discard those talking heads who once wore stars when it comes to subject matter expertise - and when it comes down to gun design, to listing to gun designers and engineers, not users who have no clue what is going on after they pull the trigger.

ALL SELF LOADING GUNS DIRTY THE ACTION. Its a necessary offset of their design and there's no getting around it. If you want a clean action and clean brass - keep the bolt closed until all the gas goes out the muzzle, and operate it manually. There is no other choice.
 
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There are to areas where carbon will build up on the BCG. The tale of the bolt (bolt stem)and the inside of the bolt carrier behind the bolt.
Years ago I posted on another forum on how to do a quick field cleaning using just a rag, the firing pin, a pocket knife and a stripper clip. I caught a bunch of flack from would be Operators who had never been in the military, let alone combat.
What they gave me flack about was using the knife to scrape the carbon off the bolt stem and using the firing pin to brake loose the carbon inside the bolt carrier. they said I was doing damage to the bolt and firing pin. But then a few years later this new fancy tool came out.
Cat-762.jpg

All those that gave me flack started talking about how great this new tool was, like it was the next best thing to sliced bread. When I pointed out to them that they were doing the same thing I had posted about, but just using a fancy tool that cost about $25 at the time.
The AR is a simple simple to keep running, just keep it oiled with a good gun oil like CLP and remove the carbon buildup from time to time.
 
Unless you're turning it in to an armorer, you really don't need to do much cleaning. On the rare occasions that I do clean mine, I go outside and use a solvent blaster to knock out the gunk and then apply a little CLP at the lube points. Every once in a while I run a couple of CLP soaked patches down the bore. I'm not trying to shoot sub MOA groups- those guys may have a more fastidious cleaning regimen. Most of the time mine go into the safe not having any cleaning done. It's a completely different routine than for nicely blued firearms.
 
I shot one round thru my AR this year - a doe deer during season. When home, I pushed the rear release pin, pulled the charge handle and the BCG - pulled the cotter pin, the firing pin, the cam and the bolt. A very, very light coat of gray carbon in the bolt housing. Cleaned all with solvent, solvent/ then oil patch down the barrel, oiled and reassembled the BCG. All very unnecessary but I am retired and love to do the simple stuff - the whole process took about ten minutes going at a slow and methodical pace - easy design to clean. As a footnote, I had not cleaned this design since the end of Vietnam; some forty plus years later when I made an AR purchase, I had forgotten how to disassemble the M16 design - I had to look it up on the internet. It all came back very quickly - again, a very simple design to clean - good shooting!
 
John G C 1 wrote:
He mentioned that cleaning the type of AR that blows the gas back into the entire gun can take about an hour,...

The manual that came with the S&W M&P-15s I bought for my sons says to:
  • Field strip the rifle,
  • Do the normal bore brush and patch thing you would do with any rifle,
  • Wipe down the exterior,
  • Oil up all the components,
  • Reassemble the rifle.
Takes about 20 minutes if I work at a leisurely pace. If I work like I'm in the Zombie apocalypse and they just crashed through the front gate, it can be a whole lot less. ;)
 
Well, in the Army, yes, even newly minted Generals get instruction from Specialists on their area of expertise.

I know- because I was one of those Specialists. Had a BG from the five-sided funny farm ask my opinion of the weapons cleaning steam system he'd sent me to evaluate- And I told him everything, including about the SGT that pulled rank on me and took over the steam cleaner and promptly burnt both his hands.:D
 
I go on prairie dog hunts. By far, my go to rifle is my ultra accurate Windman Bushmaster. I may clean it after a hunt if I think about it, maybe not

It's had thousands of rounds and has never malfunctioned even once. Bench rest shooters will tell you that more damage is done to rifles by improper cleaning than being dirty. My rifles for the most part still look new.

FWIW... I do use hand loads that run far cleaner than much of the milsurp and cheaper commercial ammo. I ran low on ammo before one hunt. Bought some cheaper commercial ammo. Until you experience the difference first hand, it's difficult to realize how much difference it makes.
 
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I clean my ARs far beyond what most people here are talking about and it MIGHT take me a half hour at most. I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds without cleaning at places like Gunsite. No problem. When I have attended classes like this, there were always people who never cleaned their rifle the whole time. Just kept it lubricated. We fired over 2000 rounds of ammunition in the four day class. They didn't seem to have problems either. In my case, I was paying for the class out of my own pocket and wanted to get the most out of it that I could, so I cleaned my rifle at least every couple days even though I am not sure it was needed.

Gun cleaning is a topic that comes up a lot on gun forums and in my opinion, most people over-think it and over-do it. I think some of this comes from the military where at one time they used corrosive powder and corrosive primers and the ritual just carried over to times when it is a waste of time. Another thing about the military is that they are trying to instill in you the idea that you need to take care of your gear and they go way over the top to hammer home this lesson. Yet another thing about the military is that it isn't unusual for them to just create busy work: idle hands are the devil's playground: they keep you busy doing something and cleaning weapons is busy work. The weapon will never be clean enough until they have something else for you to do.

In my opinion, the piston AR is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. The M16 platform rifle has been in service with the US and foreign militaries all over the world, in every corner of the globe, in combat, under the harshest of conditons for close to 50 years. It has more than proven itself. Never the less, a lot of bandwidth is consumed every day from people on gun forums discussing it's shortcomings.
 
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I clean my ARs far beyond what most people here are talking about and it MIGHT take me a half hour at most. I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds without cleaning at places like Gunsite. No problem. When I have attended classes like this, there were always people who never cleaned their rifle the whole time. Just kept it lubricated. We fired over 2000 rounds of ammunition in the four day class. They didn't seem to have problems either. In my case, I was paying for the class out of my own pocket and wanted to get the most out of it that I could, so I cleaned my rifle at least every couple days even though I am not sure it was needed.

Gun cleaning is a topic that comes up a lot on gun forums and in my opinion, most people over-think it and over-do it. I think some of this comes from the military where at one time they used corrosive powder and corrosive primers and the ritual just carried over to times when it is a waste of time. Another thing about the military is that they are trying to instill in you the idea that you need to take care of your gear and they go way over the top to hammer home this lesson. Yet another thing about the military is that it isn't unusual for them to just create busy work: idle hands are the devil's playground: they keep you busy doing something and cleaning weapons is busy work. The weapon will never be clean enough until they have something else for you to do.
Cleaning rifles in the Corps was a good way to keep Marines busy. Nothing is more dangerous then a bored Marine with nothing to do.:D
I have carried the M16A1 and the A2 all over the world, snow, rain, heat, desert, jungle and mountains. And a swamp or two. The biggest problem you will ever have is rust. Just keep the outside clean and the inside oiled.
In my opinion, the piston AR is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. The M16 platform rifle has been in service with the US and foreign militaries all over the world, in every corner of the globe, in combat, under the harshest of conditons for close to 50 years. It has more than proven itself. Never the less, a lot of bandwidth is consumed every day from people on gun forums discussing it's shortcomings.
I have always said that it's the $200 answer to the $20 question.
 
I'm a fussy, slow Fudd. After a few mags, I will spend an hour (or two) cleaning my AR. It probably
doesn't absolutely need it, but I'd rather it were cleaner, than caking up with soot. One thing you could do,
is focus on a different part of the action to clean, every time you clean the barrel. Ref post#36. That tool what
GunnyUSMC said is great for getting the crud from the bolt.
 
I might take an hour to completely clean an AR15 to my standards, but I am a bit obsessive about it and cleaning guns gives me a warm & fuzzy feeling inside. Especially when I use Breakfree CLP. But an AR15 does not need an hour of cleaning/PM to keep going day after day.

If I were in a hurry and wanted an "80% solution" it would take maybe 5 minutes:
1. Shotgun it / pop rear pin and rotate at front pin.
2. Remove charging handle & BCG
3. Quick scrub of chamber with CLP wet chamber brush.
4. Run CLP wet patch then dry patch down bbl from chamber end using quality one-piece cleaning rod--OR just a bore snake wetted at the brushy bit. Should clear excess oil from bbl & chamber.
5. Disassemble BCG, scrub or wipe it down with CLP, checking rings, then wipe off excess leaving a "light coat of oil."
6. Wipe out interior of upper & lower with a cloth that has a tiny bit of CLP on it.
7. Wipe down outside steel bits with same cloth while looking for issues.
8. Lube all the right spots with CLP, preferably CLP in one of those needle-spouted bottles from Brownells. Don't need much and slopping it all over the place gains you nothing.
9. Re-assemble.
10. Function check.

If you have severe copper fouling or some such, you may be in for a lot of bonding time with your AR15.

Some folks use grease and a buncha other oils/solvents/etc. If you want it done quick, Breakfree CLP does it all good enough. Some other products do specific tasks better or cheaper.
* Cheap: Mobil One synthetic AT fluid for solvent & M1 synthetic motor oil for lube & protectant. I have 1/8qt of M1 left over from oil changes every 5000 miles. And the same bottle of AT fluid I bought a few years back.
* Better: A whole 'nuther thread to include declarations of faith, hollers of agony, protestations of innocence, and accusations of ferrous metal abuse directed at the WD-40 crowd.

Solvent Soak
If you want a cheap splashy-soaky-scrubby solvent I generally prefer odorless mineral spirits with a splash of synthetic motor oil in the mix. Much less dangerous than gasoline, MEK, acetone, and some other more aggressive solvents. OMS by itself will strip all oil off. I like to add the splash of motor oil to leave a minuscule coat of oil in case I let the parts hang out for a while. I have lived in high humidity locales, so rust is a fear of mine that I find hard to shake.
 
Is that true? Or does that sound like ocd type cleaning? Very curious.


It takes me about 20 minutes to clean any of my AR15's. I think I do a very thorough job. I do remove the bolt, disassemble the bolt, clean it inside and out. Clean the upper of all fouling, especially around the locking lugs. I use a chamber brush and a bore brush. Everything is cleaned up and oiled. I don't want rust and I don't want gunk gumming up the mechanism. There are always those who push the limits of dirt, which is fine if all you are doing is busting rocks. If you are a target shooter, you don't want to have your score ruined by a jam, you spend a lot of money on your stuff, and a lot of time, so target shooters want reliable guns. So they tend to keep their guns clean. If my life depended on it, I would keep my gun clean and well oiled. They are after all, just machines.

These guys are attacking the myth of over lubrication. AR15's need to be run wet for best reliability. And, like the guys say, they are just machines. Keep them clean and well lubricated for best reliability.

 
Wow, @Slamfire I didn't even know that over lubrication was an actual concern for some folks. At worst it seemed to be a minor inconvenience that excess lube ends up on your eye-pro.
 
The excessive cleaning is a military make work. Also you don't need anything to jam in the gas tube. Just do a basic clean, it will be a fraction of that guy's hour.
 
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