Range report. Disaster!

[mickeydim468]

I took my son out to the range yesterday. All was going great. I was teaching him to shoot and he was doing everything I was telling him and he was hitting the 100yd target with great consistency. He was shooting my Weatherby Vanguard .243 Win. I decided to let him be as he was doing good and I would go shoot my M1917. (My son is 20 years old and did fine.)

Here is where the disaster comes in. Last time I took my 30-06 M1917 out to the range was 3 weeks ago. It was shooting 3/4" 5 shot groups. 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100yds, and 2" 5 shot groups at 200. I lined up on my 100yd target and squeezed the trigger. It shot 3"low and 2" left of target. I shot again and it shot 3" low and lined up for target L/R. I shot again and it was 4" high and 3"right. I am using my new Nikon ProStaff 3-9X40 scope with the BDC reticle.

I took off the scope and put it on my .243 that my son was shooting and I shot a 3 shot group at 200yds that you could have covered up with a quarter.

I have ruled out the scope: So what else could it be? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I checked all of the screws and etc and everything was tight... The stock mount screws, the scope mount screws the mount base screws even the ring screws. All were tight. In fact The base screw was so tight that when I tried to tighten it the screw broke. Now I have to find the long screw that goes through the "ears" that would normally hold the base of the sight leaf on.

I am just sick about this.

Should I even mess with it? or should I get a Williams Peep sight and call it a day?

If I do that, I will need an alternative for a front sight. My barrel was cut down to 20" and I do not have a front sight on it.

Where would I get one and would I have to have a gunsmith install it or can I do it on my drill press and use a tap and die set to do it myself?

 

[Al Thompson]

Hate to ask a silly question, but is it the same ammo as last time?

 

[Boba Fett]

Before you throw in the towel, you might have a gunsmith take a look at it. Maybe someone at your local range can help you?

Sorry about your bummer range trip. Have someone look at it before you give up hope.

 

[mickeydim468]

I forgot to mention. I was using a new batch of the same recipe, but I had some left over from the old batch, and used some of them too. They did the same thing.

BTW... Not a silly question at all.

There is no one at the range on a regular basis I could ask. It is hit and miss as to who shows up while you are there. I am usaully there by myself for the most part of my shooting. There was one other guy who showed up Sunday while I was shooting and trying to figure it out and he was clueless too.

 

[Zerodefect]

Usually a scope mount problem.

 

[Bearhands]

I'd hardly post a DISASTER. I'd take that gun to a competent gunsmith for evaluation.

 

[mickeydim468]

Therein lies the problem... Where I live, there are no competent gunsmiths nearby that I know of. I have looked in the phone book and there is only one within the book. Those I have talked to about this say that he used to be really good but since he is getting up in the years his work has fallen way below standard. It looks like I am going to have to figure this out myself, which is what makes this a disaster!

 

[mickeydim468]

I think, rather than mess around and get frustrated, I would like to just go back to non-optical sights. Something in the way of a peep rear sight and a barrel mounted front sight. Then I can just use it as my brush gun.

I found a Williams peep sight for the rear that I think would work fine, it is the front sight that I am concerned with. Because my local gunsmith may not be very competent, is there a solution such as a bolt on or even possibly something I could drill and tap to add for a front sight?

 

[61chalk]

Just a thought...but that 30/06 is going to kick more than the 243....thats more
vibration going through the gun an into the scope. The scope might not be able to
take the shock from the 30/06 an stay true. Also weather conditions may of affected
the wood to swell or loosed on the old 30/06 since it was last fired...I know this can happen on Garands an even taking them apart from the stock an putting back can affect the first several shots.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Was the weather doing the same thing as last time?

 

[ms6852]

Check the action, my old 30-06 Savage used to come lose after a trip, finally had to start using nail polish or loctite. Humidity and temperatures play havoc on wooden stocks. The swelling of the stock on a humid day will create pressure points along the barrel if it is not free floated.

 

[docsleepy]

yep, a zillion possibilities. that's what makes this hobby challenging

Some of the mistakes I've made:
a) lousy rest, puts different pressure on the gun each shot
b) back bag at an angle, or moved between shots
c) forgot to dial out the parallax perfectly on the scope (does your scope allow parallax to be removed?)
d) friction on the front or rear bag
e) different neck tension on different cases
f) poor bedding, or no bedding at all
g) something touching the barrel where it shouldnt
h) action screws looose, or worse, action threaded hole wallered out
i) loose scope rings
j) different seating depth, or wrong seating depth
k) COPPER FOULED BARREL (did that one today@!)

the list is huge, that's why this is a fun hobby

 

[Fremmer]

Well, it is either your shooting, the scope/rings/mount, or the rifle. How's that for an answer?

The only things I can think of are an action moving around in the stock, or inconsistent placement of the rifle on bags or on the rest while shooting. Or maybe a little flinch? Try taking it shooting again, see if it does the same thing.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out!

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

First thing that comes to mind besides mount & rings is stock/action screws being loose. Ask youself "What was different?" Was it the weather? Maybe the humidity is making the stock touch the barrel. Was it a different rest setup? You ruled out ammo & scope, so I'm thinking one of those 4 things most likely. It also could have been you (but probably not) - did you drink caffiene or do something else different? Oh yeah, could be copper fouling, too, or a nicked crown, like the man said.

And that ain't a disaster - that's a rough range trip - you win some, you lose some. That's part of what makes it fun.

 

[mickeydim468]

To answer a lot of your questions in one swoop, I will tell you that the weather was not the same. The last time out a few weeks back it was raining and windy. The wind was blowing at me from the north east about 10 degrees from head on. It was only blowing about 5-10MPH with occasional gust to 15MPH. I shot during the lul in the wind. The temp was in the high 40s to low 50s. Yesterday it was sunny and warm high in the high 50s to low 60s. There was little to no wind. I will tell you that the wind on the 100 yard range rarely affects my shooting. Even heavy gusts because the range is blocked on three sides by a 30 foot berm of dirt. It is really only when I move out to 200 or 300 yards that the wind is ever a factor.

To dispel any thoughts of the stock warping due to weather changes I will let you in on something. About a month or so, I changed the stock from the old bubba'd wood stock to a synthetic stock that I took off of my Weatherby Vanguard 300 Win. I inletted the action and glass bedded it. The barrel is free floated and has been cut down to 20" by someone before me. This rifle has always shot very accurately behind glass. Peep sights have never been too hot, but that was before I got glasses too!

I did use sand bags this time instead of my work sled. I have a pinched nerve in my back and my right hand ring and pinky fingers are numb, but they were numb the last outing too. I was very relaxed and comfortable. It should have been a fun day. It was a perfect day to be shooting.

See answers below in parenthesis for my response to you questions.

a) lousy rest, puts different pressure on the gun each shot (Possible)
b) back bag at an angle, or moved between shots (Rarely use a back bag and didn't on these 2 occasions)
c) forgot to dial out the parallax perfectly on the scope (does your scope allow parallax to be removed?) (No paralax adjustment Scope sight looked good)
d) friction on the front or rear bag (Possible)
e) different neck tension on different cases (Nope I use a fishing scale on my pull handle to make sure)
f) poor bedding, or no bedding at all (See above)
g) something touching the barrel where it shouldn't (Checked with dollar bill, no obstructions)
h) action screws looose, or worse, action threaded hole wallered out (Checked and all ok)
i) loose scope rings (Checked and all ok)
j) different seating depth, or wrong seating depth (I thought this may be the case, which is why I went back to my old batch to check.)
k) COPPER FOULED BARREL (did that one today@!) (Scrubbed the barrel just before the previous visit and this visit too)

And that ain't a disaster - that's a rough range trip - you win some, you lose some. That's part of what makes it fun.

The disaster is breaking that screw that holds my scope mount and rear peep site on. I have no clue where or even if I can get one.

I can't use the rifle at all without this stupid 0.02 cent screw. It'll probably end up costing me $50.00 to find one and get it shipped. I just thought the paint was causing the screw to not turn, well... I was wrong!

 

[blackops]

Were you usuing the same ammo? Sometimes a heavier bullet won't stablize properly depending on the rifle and some bullets just won't fly the same even if they are the same gr. Have you cleaned your barrel? Try shooting it with iron sights at 50-100yds. See if it's the same.

 

[mickeydim468]

Yes Speer SPBT 165Gr 58.5Gr H4350 Federal Primers seated to an OAL of 3.295" I even had some ammo left over from my previous range trip and tried that. Same results.

Oh and by the way. This was not a bad range trip. My son and I had a lot of fun together. He didn't even know I was having issues until the ride home. He thought I just wanted him to use my New Nikon scope. The scope was bought just before the last range trip and then on this trip yesterday, Blammo. I do not believe it is the scope.

I was so proud of him. He had never been with me to the range before. Yes we had been out to the BLM land to do some shooting, but this time I could give him some really good instruction and he followed it to a "T" He was shooting quite well and even better once I put the Nikon on my .243 for him. It could not have been a better day!

Sorry to give the wrong impression. But even a poor day at the range shooting guns is better than... well... Just about anything!

 

[Dirtpile]

Have you checked the crown? You're sure the barrel is tight in the action?

As for the gunsmith, ask around. If the local guy's work is slipping he's had to have lost customers. Find out who they are using now.

 

[mickeydim468]

As far as I know they are going way out of town. Over 100 each way. I checked the proof mark alignment lines on the barrel and action, and they have not moved. I have never parted the barrel from the action. Never found the need to, the gun was shooting so good before. If it ain't broke... Don't fix it!.

 

[skidooman603]

I was expecting blown up rifle pics. I have bigger disasters before 9:00am everyday

 

[ole farmerbuck]

I know how you feel. I can put 5 shots in 1 hole one day and the next time......well, you know! It doesnt make any sense why i cant get them to all shoot the same day after day after.

 

[AKElroy]

To dispel any thoughts of the stock warping due to weather changes I will let you in on something. About a month or so, I changed the stock from the old bubba'd wood stock to a synthetic stock that I took off of my Weatherby Vanguard 300 Win.

Had you previously shot tight groups AFTER changing this stock?

 

[Al Thompson]

Looks like your doing everything right. I too have the same issue with no good gunsmith with in 75 miles, so know how that goes. I still keep looking at the scope as an issue - over the years, scopes have always been a weak link.

As for the screw, see if you can locate a machine shop - they should be able to tell you the specs for that screw so you can get another one. Alternately, if you can find a nut that fits the screw, you may be able to go to a big box store and find a screw that will work. Or the machine shop may have one or be able to get you one.

HTH!

 

[Uncle Mike]

Had you previously shot tight groups AFTER changing this stock?

Well...did you?

 

[mickeydim468]

Quote:
Had you previously shot tight groups AFTER changing this stock?
Well...did you?

Yes. The range trip prior to this past Sunday was it's debut with the new stock and scope. It was shooting like a dream! I could not have been more pleased with it's performance. On another of my threads I have pictures of the prior trip's results along with a range report.Click Here! for my other thread. At the bottom of the first post you will see a link to the picture page.

Here is a link straight to the picture thread Picture page.