rarest caliber in a pre-64 model 70 winchester?

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I collect pre 64 Winchester 70s since the first one I was given in 1965 when I turned 18. I have 20 or so of them and am about to start selling down on gun broker. I am selling my 1953 .270 with unertl 6x which was my first one . I am selling the Westerner, the Alaskan and the .300 H&H , the standard .243 first. I have rarer and common ones too.The last ones to go will be the .243, 264, and 30-06 Featherweights of which I have exceptional examples that I have hunted with. In the local market pre 64 Model 70s don't sell well, there seem little interest every one buys Tikka T3 or Weatherby Howas ect. Gunbroker opens a broader market and you get good response if fairly priced.
 
Gordon, I second your decision to sell your rifles on GunBroker. I have bought several rifles on GunBroker and if I needed a rifle that is were I would go. Sad to say there are several people who buy rifles on GunBroker and turn them into parts because there is a going market for Model 70 parts. I couldn't stand to see my good rifles turned into parts, so when I get near my end in life I plan to give my rifles to my younger friends. In my opinion 1953 was the Cadillac year for standard grade rifles. 1955 was the Cadillac year for featherweights.
 
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tark said:
I have always wondered what is the rarest caliber offered in the pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters? I have heard everything from 7.92 Mauser, to 7,65 Argentine Mauser to 300 Savage....and everything in between. There were only 22 shipped in 9X57 Mauser, supposedly. That's an odd one.

Were there any one-offs, special order guns, chambered in really off beat calibers?

The reason I am asking is to settle a bet, and I know very little about Model 70s ....other than I want one!

Help me out....
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I once saw a picture of a couple of target models that a collector had special ordered - IIRC in 35 Remington and 458 Win Mag. He wanted one of a kind Winchesters. I guess one way to get them is to special order cartridge / configuration combos that nobody in their right mind would order.

Update: I found these:

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-133...ester-model-70-target-rifles-with-case-39918/

Can't tell if they are the same ones.
 
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My favorite Pre-64 Mdl. 70 was the Heavy Barreled .243 WCF. Some time in the 1970s in Central Wyoming we parted ways. I still miss that Ole girl. :(
 
sage5907 said:
Gordon, I second your decision to sell your rifles on GunBroker. I have bought several rifles on GunBroker and if I needed a rifle that is were I would go. Sad to say there are several people who buy rifles on GunBroker and turn them into parts because there is a going market for Model 70 parts. I couldn't stand to see my good rifles turned into parts, so when I get near my end in life I plan to give my rifles to my younger friends. In my opinion 1953 was the Cadillac year for standard grade rifles. 1955 was the Cadillac year for featherweights.
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concur on the primo years. Actually 51-54 (and earlier but not all the desirable feature before 51) they had one piece forged bolts I think. You can see the quality going down after 59, good but not the wood and fitting of before.
 
According to the Standard Catalog of Firearms, 19th Ed. (p. 1377), the 300 Savage is the rarest pre-64 Model 70 with less than a thousand made. Closely followed by the 35 Remington. In ascending order of production numbers, relative rarity is 300 Savage, 35 Remington, 458 Win Mag, 7mm, 358 Win, 250-3000, 300 Win Mag. (which is the first caliber to reach 5000 units produced), 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 257 Roberts, 220 Swift (20k units produced), 22 Hornet, 264 Win Mag, 300 H&H, 308 Win, 243 Win (about 42k units produced). The 270 Win saw 100k units produced and 30-06 saw 200k units produced.

Hope that helps.
 
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What about the 7.65 Argentine Mauser?
According to Madis, only 31 produced.
1278-3.jpg
 
D.B. Cooper said:
In ascending order of production numbers, relative rarity is 300 Savage, 35 Remington, 458 Win Mag, 7mm, 358 Win, 250-3000, 300 Win Mag. (which is the first caliber to reach 5000 units produced), 354 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 257 Roberts, 220 Swift (20k units produced), 22 Hornet, 264 Win Mag, 300 H&H, 308 Win, 243 Win (about 42k units produced). The 270 Win saw 100k units produced and 30-06 saw 200k units produced.
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I assume 354 Win Mag is a typo, but I can't guess what it was supposed to be. 338 Win Mag maybe??

Interesting to see just how dominant 270 and 30-06 are. That jibes with my experience selling guns. We'd get an occasional request for 308, 243 but what people really wanted was 270 and 30-06.
 
natman said:
I assume 354 Win Mag is a typo, but I can't guess what it was supposed to be. 338 Win Mag maybe??

Interesting to see just how dominant 270 and 30-06 are. That jibes with my experience selling guns. We'd get an occasional request for 308, 243 but what people really wanted was 270 and 30-06.
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Don't recall myself at the moment. I'm at work on my lunch break. I'll look it up tonight when I get home and repost here and fix my original as well. Sorry.

PS: I used to sell guns, too, and yes, that matches my experience as well. 270 and 30-06. 243 a distant 3rd.
 
natman said:
I assume 354 Win Mag is a typo, but I can't guess what it was supposed to be. 338 Win Mag maybe??

Interesting to see just how dominant 270 and 30-06 are. That jibes with my experience selling guns. We'd get an occasional request for 308, 243 but what people really wanted was 270 and 30-06.
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Yup. 338 Win Mag. Just under 10k units.
 
Well, here it is, the rarest of the rare. One built.
 

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338-06 AI.

Specifically in Left Hand with a medium sporter/ MRC #4 contour 26" barrel & a Magnum length magazine box to load them a little long.

I haven't found one yet.
 
Little question the 7.65 and the 9×57 are the rarest production guns.
I would give a arm to have one of the two in supergrade.
I have 3 pre64 M70s, 2 pre war the other 1951 production. All in 30-06.
I have to say the pre war guns are vastly superior to the post war guns as far as detailed machine work. The bolt root, the receiver bridge stripling, the carefully radiused loading/ ejection opening are all fine examples of the machinist art.
The post war guns are full of short cuts vs the pre wars and are no way even close.

Edit: The 7.65 and 9x57 barrels will be date stamped 35 or earlier. They are left over model 54 barrels.
 
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Approach rare caliber M70's with caution. Folks have made counterfeit barrels using factory stamps. For this reason I focus on collecting common calibers.
 
Horsemany said:
Approach rare caliber M70's with caution. Folks have made counterfeit barrels using factory stamps. For this reason I focus on collecting common calibers.
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Do you really think this is common? With the forged on front sight ramp I would think faking a pre war, or early post war barrel would be impossible. The latter 50s early 60s with the brazed on front would be easy.
 
jim in Anchorage said:
Do you really think this is common? With the forged on front sight ramp I would think faking a pre war, or early post war barrel would be impossible. The latter 50s early 60s with the brazed on front would be easy.
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I think it's more common than many would believe. I've seen all kinds of ways to fake p64 70's. They say there's more good condition pre 64's around now than in 64.
 
That 32 WCF I posted a picture of was in a RIA Company cat a few years back, so I'm pretty sure it was legit. Also pretty sure it was a one-off for some bigwig, so I don't really think it should count as a production M-70. Below it in the cat was one in 9X57 which was stated to be one of only 21 built. I'm thinking that is the rarest production M-70.

All I know is this: My collection is incomplete because I don't have one. I'll have to fix that....
 
tark said:
That 32 WCF I posted a picture of was in a RIA Company cat a few years back, so I'm pretty sure it was legit. Also pretty sure it was a one-off for some bigwig, so I don't really think it should count as a production M-70. Below it in the cat was one in 9X57 which was stated to be one of only 21 built. I'm thinking that is the rarest production M-70.

All I know is this: My collection is incomplete because I don't have one. I'll have to fix that....
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Some how those one off m70s in such calipers as 32-20 and 32 WCF don't do much for me. They almost seem fake even though they where made in the factory. Just some guys in the machine shop killing a dull afternoon.
The 9x57, 7.65, 35 Rem and .300 savage where real production guns, sold to the public and cataloged.
My Dean Whitaker book the model 70 Winchester 1937-1964 also shows a factory take down m70. But again it just doesn't seem "real".
 
Hi Jim. AMEN to that! Of what use is a full sized hunting rifle in a weak pistol caliber that isn't powerful to hunt big game with? Like I said, probably some bigwig wanted a one-off just to say that he had one. It shouldn't count as a production gun because it wasn't one. I still think the 9X57, totaling 21 guns, is the rarest. But that figure is from the RIA Co, others say the 7.65.
 
tark said:
Hi Jim. AMEN to that! Of what use is a full sized hunting rifle in a weak pistol caliber that isn't powerful to hunt big game with? Like I said, probably some bigwig wanted a one-off just to say that he had one. It shouldn't count as a production gun because it wasn't one. I still think the 9X57, totaling 21 guns, is the rarest. But that figure is from the RIA Co, others say the 7.65.
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Real problem with collecting M70s is you can't "letter" them like you can say a M1894. You can't, for example ask Winchester what caliber M70 SN 564 was because there are no records.
Makes it very much a "buyer beware" game.
 
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