Re-Thinking My Stance on .380 JHPs

[Ben86]

I have always thought that .380s will more often than not fail to provide either adequet penetration or expansion when used in their jacket hollow point form. So I load up with flat nose fmjs instead. But when seeing results with premium ammunition such as this:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1628.htm

...I am starting to rethink my position.

It seems I could increase the stopping power of my little LCP greatly if I use hollowpoints and only have to sacrifice a few inches of penetration.

Am I wrong?

 

[rcmodel]

The only FP-FMJ .380 ammo I know of is Winchester white box.

And it is under-loaded so far, penetration would probably be less than many good JHP's.

This from American Rifleman test of Kel-Tec P3AT.


rc

 

[V1ROT8]

The Golden Saber and the Hornady CD have impressed me in my trials.

 

[NG VI]

I think you're right. Not best for shooting through an arm or two before hitting a very fat or very muscular man, but should be just fine for any remotely ordinary body type. Plus that 102 Golden Saber is the heaviest .380 cartridge I've ever seen, help get it deeper even though it expands. I think the DPX loads are about equal to the Golden Saber too, check the out.

 

[SwampWolf]

I prefer hardball in short barreled .380s because I want maximum reliability and penetration. I'm not convinced that the latest in hollow-point bullet design will reliably expand with the fps limit imposed by short barrels and hardball is the standard when it comes to dependable function in autos and penetration (don't want my bullet caught up in some bg's heavy outer-wear).

 

[LightningMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhXSTqV0CT4
Hornady Critical Defence is my choice for my LCP

 

[TexasBill]

I carry the Federal Premium Hydra Shok in my Beretta Cheetah. I've never had any worries about .380, carried a PPK as a BUG for years, and I figure 14 rounds of anything will at least annoy an attacker to the point he leaves me alone. Or filled with so many holes, he bleeds to death.

 

[Just One Shot]

SwampWolf I prefer hardball in short barreled .380s because I want maximum reliability and penetration. I'm not convinced that the latest in hollow-point bullet design will reliably expand with the fps limit imposed by short barrels and hardball is the standard when it comes to dependable function in autos and penetration (don't want my bullet caught up in some bg's heavy outer-wear).

I was the same way until I saw some info on Hornady's Critical Defense.
Check out the video here:


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/11/16/hornady-critical-defense-ammunition/

 

[makarovnik]

I run Buffalo Bore Hardcast in all my .380's and .32's. Nasty.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I tend to think the average FMJ is probably as good at least as the best hollow point. Plus they feed more reliably in general so those micro guns with questionable at best reliability will have the benefit of the doubt. I do like what I see pertaining to Golden Sabers though.

 

[MTS840]

It seems I could increase the stopping power of my little LCP exponentially if I use hollowpoints and only have to sacrifice a few inches of penetration.

Am I wrong?

I would re-think this.

Sacrificing penetration is not a good idea if the bullet has to traverse a medium size person in a cross-body shot. If I had to sacrifice one aspect of handgun ballistics and I had to stick with a .380, I'd give up expansion and get as much penetration as possible.

 

[mljdeckard]

Exponentially? REALLY? Better by a factor of........?

No matter what they can do to a .380 to make it better, they can make a bigger round better still. No matter what you do to it you are using the very bottom of acceptable pistol rounds. They all suck.

 

[w_houle]

No matter what you do to it you are using... acceptable pistol rounds.

FTFY.. and here we go again

 

[jon_in_wv]

Personally I like the Federal Hydrashocks in my LCP. If they expand at all it will at least be limited expansion and the penetration isn't likely to suffer much. More likely they won't expand and will act more like flatnose ball which I prefer GREATLY over FMJ. The 380 is much more limited by the super short barrels of tiny autos like the LCP. In bigger 380s it isn't nearly as handicapped. Its still not a 9mm or bigger but its accurate and controllable. A person could do worse.

 

[hammerklavier]

I like the Golden Saber because it is the heaviest bullet I've seen, and it's loaded pretty hot. Buffalo Bore is an even hotter load of a lighter bullet. I suggest either one of those.

Most FMJ is not loaded that hot, as they are just target rounds.

 

[mljdeckard]

I tell people to carry what they want to. Just don't kid yourself by saying it's EXPONENTIALLY better than it is.

 

[Guillermo]

380 is perhaps not enough, perhaps barely enough.

I sold my Guardian and got a PM9.

Do not take this as a total slam. I still have a Remington 51 and am thinking about an LCP for deep concealment. Just like in the Guardian I will carry Golden Sabers in it.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Corbon HP or the DPX deliver mor FPS and ftlbs than the Golden saber In some jell test using a kelTec the GS fails to expand Look at the above test and see the GS was over a 100FPS slower than Corbon I will stay with my Corbon in all my 380's

 

[Ben86]

I don't know what WWB load that is in the picture, but this is the one that I use: http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/usa/full-metal-jacket/Pages/Q4206.aspx

FPS: 955 Although the test barrel length is probably 4"
FPE: 192

I've heard that corbons often fragment.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I wouldn't trust it personally. I would want FMJ.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I prefer hardball in short barreled .380s because I want maximum reliability and penetration. I'm not convinced that the latest in hollow-point bullet design will reliably expand with the fps limit imposed by short barrels and hardball is the standard when it comes to dependable function in autos and penetration (don't want my bullet caught up in some bg's heavy outer-wear).

I've heard this argument from a LOT of people but honestly it doesnt' make sense to me. If HPs are not likely to expand from the short barrels then there is no advantage to the FMJs. It will penetrate deeply yet it will have a flat or sharp leading edge that will probably make it more effective then FMJs. The JHP defensive ammo will likely be loaded to a higher velocity than the ball ammo so +1 there too. If you gun feeds JHPs then there is no advantage in reliability. While I buy the argument that a 380 (FMJ or JHP) will be less effective in shooting through and arm or a leg and still striking vital organs I think that is more a factor of the power of the round than whether or not its a HP. Lastly its assumed that a JHP could be stopped by an attackers jacket but a FMJ wouldn't? I would love to see where that info comes from. You can easily shoot through a heavy leather jacket with either. The heavy clothing is more likely to simply plug the HP making it act like a FMJ so no advantage once again.
Personally I think that most HPs will deform to some degree. At a minimum the shape of the bullet will create a better wound path than a FMJ. It will also be much less prone to deflection off of the skull or other bones. The WWB FP-FMJ is popular in 380 yet it is loaded to a velocity 100 fps slower than the Hydrashoks I carry. I don't believe for one second that the WWB is going to be more capable of penetrating a heavy outer garment than the Hydrashoks are. On one of my trips to Alabama I shot a 3 inch wooden fence post with several rounds of WWB. They would not go all the way through it and were stopped in the post. I fired a few Hydrashoks and they sailed right through it. I immediately quite carry the WWB and switched to the Hydrashoks.
Now all of this is predicated on the idea your pistol will reliably shoot HPs. Some are only reliable with FMJ. If thats the case then I would say stay with the FMJs. Mine has been 100% with all of the HPs I've fed it. You can't be MORE reliable than 100%. Also the faster ammo cycles the slide more positively than the less powerful WWB so I think I'm much better served with the Hydrashoks. I haven't tried the Hornady CD but hopefully I'll get the chance.

 

[Pappy109]

I have always thought that .380s will more often than not fail to provide either adequet penetration or expansion when used in their jacket hollow point form. So I load up with flat nose fmjs instead. But when seeing results with premium ammunition such as this:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1628.htm

...I am starting to rethink my position.

It seems I could increase the stopping power of my little LCP greatly if I use hollowpoints and only have to sacrifice a few inches of penetration.

Am I wrong?

Let's not get in another caliber or penetration debate guys. "Keep It Simple Stupid" is the best solution to a great many things. That said, anything flying through the air at around a 1000 feet a second and then hitting you is definitely going to make you have a bad day no matter how it's shaped or what size it is.

Do we really need to know anymore than that! Sticking a sharp stick in a bad guys eye will also get his attention and give him a clue that you don't want to be messed with also. You won't have to spend 6,000 for one of my custom made big bore blasters. Just get a stick and sharpen up one end with a Chinese .99 cent pocket knife. If the stick breaks then stick him with the Chinese pocket knife. He will catch on quick, pain travels pretty quickly to the brain through the central nervous system.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I think the OPs original post addressed the questions of the 380 caliber and penetration. I think we are trying to address the OPs question. The OP didn't ask about sharp sticks and Chinese knives, he asked about the 380 ACP. I think it more helpful to address what he asked about.

 

[Pappy109]

I think the OPs original post addressed the questions of the 380 caliber and penetration. I think we are trying to address the OPs question. The OP didn't ask about sharp sticks and Chinese knives, he asked about the 380 ACP. I think it more helpful to address what he asked about.

Then he just needs to go to the Box of Truth thread I posted and get answers and not opinion and narcissist speculation then.

 

[Pappy109]

I have always thought that .380s will more often than not fail to provide either adequet penetration or expansion when used in their jacket hollow point form. So I load up with flat nose fmjs instead. But when seeing results with premium ammunition such as this:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1628.htm

...I am starting to rethink my position.

It seems I could increase the stopping power of my little LCP greatly if I use hollowpoints and only have to sacrifice a few inches of penetration.

Am I wrong?

Let me end this right now before feelings get hurt and egos get tripped over. Just load your mag with a stagger load of JHP and FMJ. That way you get the best of both worlds. Every other round will either be a hollow point or a full metal jacket.

This is not rocket science here. Keep it Simple Stupid!