REAL black powder?

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Well, I thought I'd post today's experiment. I'm totally out of store bought BP and have really been liking it's performance in my Beretta gold rush rifle and Uberti SAA.
I hadn't used my homemade BP because it's not the same density and I thought I wouldn't be able to have enouh in the case for a decent load.
Well, I took a half pound of homemade mill dust BP, wet it down to a modeling clay consistency and pushed it through a screen which gave me roughly smaller than 2FG, larger than 3 FG.
A filled, loaded case of my homemade is only 4 grains less than my normal GOEX load. Equal boom, smoke and power, improved accuracy, much, much less fouling. I'm really amazed at how less fouling good BP can be.
I don't know about GOEX's manufacturing processes, but I use clean homemade Willow charcoal, high grade KNO3 and Sulfur.
Anyway, nice to know this works, I can make a 3 lb batch in less time than I used to drive to buy Goex!!!
 
To be more exact, a 45 colt casing will hold 29 grains of my BP. I imagine that if filled with goex, it's closer to 35 grains.
Still, what I tested was clean and accurate!
 
Anyway, nice to know this works, I can make a 3 lb batch in less time than I used to drive to buy Goex!!!

Very good, glad it works. But why not buy from Powder, Inc instead of driving?
 
Well, I'll give mine more testing soon, if it works consitently well, I won't need to buy BP ever again.
If not, I'll go ahead and get some Swiss from Grafs or Powders inc. As far as I know now, no shop in my state ( NH ) sells BP anymore!! I can go to Maine and buy some though.
Grafs is cheap enough if you go with 10lbs plus. Order 32 lbs and shipping/hazmat are free!! But, $600 for powder when I can buy a new gun???
 
That's good to know.

Wasn't willow and alder the preferred source of BP charcoal in days gone by? I've got an original Harper's Magazine article about the duPont gunpowder works, dated 1895, and they mention the care and selection of their charcoal.

I understand Goex bought nearly 20,000 acres of Piss Elm timberland up close to Bull Shoals. I wasn't real keen on Piss Elm when I helped my dad keep his house heated with the wood stove. However, if they got a good deal on that much standing timber, I cannot fault them.
 
Could you order the components separately to save and just mill it yourself?

Skylighter sells charcoal in several different mesh sizes, sells salt peter crystals, and sulfur(They don't mention the mesh size).

Enough for 32 lbs comes out to about $6/lb shipped, is that better than retail(I honestly don't know)?
 
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I think GOEX uses Maple charcoal, not the best choice. Willow is among the best, along with Alder, Paulownia and dogwood. My BP is visibly quicker and cleaner than GOEX. I never tried Swiss, heard it's good though.
I make my own Willow charcoal, very simple and easy. Fill a small canister with dried, debarked willow, punch 4-6 small holes in top of can, place in wood stove or fire. Flames will ignite from the punched exhaust holes. When these flames stop, the charcoal is done. Remove and let cool before opening.
I bought KNO3 and Sulfur in the past from a couple sources. I'd stay away from sklighter, you can find it cheaper and better. Firefox pyro supply would be better, but still, there's better supplies.
Last I figured, BP cost me just under $3 a pound. That's because I bought 50lbs of KNO3 way back, real cheap and the charcoal doesn't cost me anything.
This all sounds involved, but I can weigh the 3 ingredients, load the mill jar and walk away in 5 minutes. It'll mill on it's own, 3-5 hrs is more than enough, it starts getting clumpy and "done" at about 2.5hrs.
Wetting and granulating is less than 5 minutes, then let air dry outside...pour into old Goex can.
I've been doing this for my BP revolvers for a couple years, but wouldn't of thought I'd be able to load .45 colt with this.
If I compact the powder in the case just a little, I get around 33 grains in there. That's 33 grains of super hot, clean BP. I felt more recoil and it seemed louder than the typical full case of GOEX I'm used to.
As far as the legality... One can make BP if only for personal, non business use. It can't be sold or transported. Since it's not FG grade sporting powder, you're supposed to keep it in a type 4 powder box ( Which I do have...) You can get them from Cabelas or Maine Powder house.
Household limit of any BP is 50 lbs. No permit is needed to make BP for personal use.
It's definitly more rewarding when you shoot a bullet you cast yourself, with a wad you punched, lube you made and powder you made yourself! I haven't yet made percussion caps, but it's possible with the tap-o-cap anyway.
The more I've read on substitute BP, I see that they're all Potassium perchlorate based, with charcoal and a sugar binder ( fructose, glucose or sucrose) I'd think there would be chlorine compounds from burning this stuff, that would explain why it's more corrosive!
BP fouling isn't initially as corrosive, but adding moisture to it make sulphuric acid. I've never had a problem, shoot then clean, same day.
 
Maine Powder House

I just ordered 10 pounds of Goex FFG from the Maine Powder House. I scanned my driver's license, emailed it to them, then gave them a call and placed my order. Nice folks and the powder was delivered in a few days. Total cost with shipping was about $12 a can -- a lot less than the $20 a can the gun shop was charging. Considering the gun shop is more than 30 miles from my house, it was a good deal.

I'll deal with the Maine Powder House again. Very easy, nice folks and I saved some money.

Here's their website:

http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/
 
Amazing that the Swiss BP is about twice as much as Goex! I used pounds and pounds of Goex in the past, but I really don't think it's that great. I saw so much more slag, sparks and fouling with it than my home made BP.
I'll give Swiss a try if I ever find a local place to pick up a pound. BP is only as good as the charcoal used.
 
JCT, Do you use steel balls or ceramic or lead in your ball mill? (I assume the drum is rubber or a rubber-like plastic) BTW, I think dogwood would be terrible. It is very dense and hard; not at all like willow, alder, basswood, or paulownia.
 
FWIW, Pyrodex is black powder and not a substitute. I'm not particularly fond of it myself, but it's better than any of the actual subs. I've used it in capnball, ML rifles, cartridge and shotgun. It's OK in cartridge and shotgun, but I always have a pop...BOOM in capnball and ML. Anymore I just use it in shotgun for CAS. I wait till after ML season and the local WalMarts mark it down a bunch. I paid $6.00/pound last year.
 
I use hardened lead balls as milling media. Steel can spark, so that's not safe to mill BP with! Ceramic is commonly used, but I had the lead and casting gear already.
Pyrodex is not BP. Only black powder is blackpowder. Pyrodex has Potassium Perchlorate as it's oxidizer, BP has potassium nitrate. Also, Pyrodex has no sulfur as a binder, instead it has a sugar based fuel/binder. Sugar is essentialy charcoal anyway.
I gave part of a pound of Pyrodex P a try one once. Then gave the rest to a friend who uses it. It was noticibly more corrosive, less accurate and harder to ignite.
I shot about 50 homemade BP handloads today to test them out. Filled the cases and compressed the BP to get about 33 grains in the case. That's about all I can fit since my powder isn't very dense. It's enough though, quite a boom, heavy recoil and dead on accurate. No leading, little fouling. Actually, when the 50 were gone, I switched to my 8.5gr Unique loads, very messy and greasy compared to BP!
My Uberti SAA needs oiling after 18 shots or so anytime I use BP.
I may post pics of the BP mill, charcoal, granulated BP, handloads...if anyone is interested.
The Beretta gold rush I just bought 2 weeks ago, perfect fit and finish, very accurate, no jams, fun to use. It can be quicker than a lever gun! There's a couple pics here: http://web.mac.com/jarrod_taylor/iWeb/Site/Guns.html
 
Oh, I forgot, about the charcoal.... I've heard that Dogwood is good, never tried though. I have tried Grapevine, Alder and Willow. If you mill the Grapevine BP enough, it's as good as the Alder or Willow. I think the Willow is best though. The BP is actually dark black, when some charcoal make the BP more gray colored.
I use up plenty around the 4th, making BP rockets, shells and fountains. I had made rockets for a year or so with Pine charcoal BP, then when I switched to Willow, the rockets with the same formula would blow up! I had to back off on the KNO3 in the mix.
 
JCT, I read many years ago that Pyrodex was black powder with a coating that prevented it from flashing off like BP, so it could be classified as a flammable solid as opposed to an explosive. Forget which magazine it was in.
 
Hmm, that's interesting anyway, but not the case. Pyrodex is very lightweight and low density compard to BP. It's different in color as well. I think all the substitue powders are KCLO4 ( potassium perchlorate ) based. They probably created chlorine based oxides, which is why they're more corrosive.
I don't think BATF would have allowed a re-classification just by a coating on the powder.
"FG" powders are coated and polished with graphite to protect against static.
 
I've thought about trying a compressed charge of BP dust (right from the mill) in .45 Colt cartridge -- without pressing it into a puck, crushing, screening, etc -- just to see if it'd work.

I'll probably never get a round tuit though, cuz that's a lot of work for something that probably won't work. Still, I'm curious...
 
That's exactly what I've been doing, it works great. I never would have thought so and put it off for a long time. I should have just given it a try way back.
I figure since my BP is already more powerful than GOEX, than a less dense load of mine is proportionate to a dense load of Goex in less volume.
I'm filling the cases and pressing as much in by finger, then seating the bullet.
I just weighed it out, it's fairly consistent loading this way. A case full of my granulated BP, is a charge of 32.2 grains, as weighed on a dillon scale. I'm out of Goex to test, but I'd say a case full of goex is closer to 40 grains.
In any case, 32+ grains of my BP is more powerful than 32 grains of Goex. These seem to be quite strong loads, heavy recoil and loud boom.
If you're already set up to mill BP, then screening a few pounds takes only minutes. I get roughly FFg from a kitchen strainer.
Much cleaner than commercial BP too~!
 
JCT
Do you make your BP the same way the Swiss doctor does? I have read a little but never made my own. Could you contact me at my e-mail addy and describe your procedure.? Do you use the 75-15-10 formula? I read of an experiment done by the Swiss doctor where he eliminated the sulphur from his formula and got a lot less smoke. He said the sulphur was there only to lower the ignition temperature.
Thanks for any input.
Jim [email protected]
 
Jim, I'll post here incase anyone else is interested too. yes, sulfur is both a binder and a burn rate modifier. It lowers the ignition temperature and stabilizes the burn.
I use the standard 75% KNO3, 15% Willow Charcoal 10% Sulfur.
I mill about 500 grams in a batch. Ingredients go into the 1 gallon mill jar which is half filled with .457 lead balls for milling media.
I mill it for at least 3 hrs, it's done at that point, but I stop it when I can get to it.
I screen out the lead and then have finished black powder meal dust. It's then ready to wet down, with water and 15% alcohol to allow it to get wet!
Then I screen it through a kitchen strainer that gives me roughly FFG. Dry for about 12 hours and it's ready. I've used it in my BP revolvers for a long time and it works great. Now I just recently found that it's great in the .45lc case.
I may get into pressing it to a higher density someday, but it's working fine like this for now.
The whole process of weighing the chems, milling, screening, can be done within 3.5 hrs and you can do 2-3 lbs in one batch in the gallon size jar.
The cost is generally around $3 or $4 a pound for homemade BP, as long as your charcoal is free.
I built my own mill, cast the media and make the charcoal, so start up was relatively cheap too. I've probably used 25+ lbs of homemade betweed what I've given away and use myself.
 
JCT, a modern .45Colt case, filled to the brim with Goex will hold around 35 grains. I'll weigh some tomorrow to be sure, but that's about what I remember. A modern .44-40 will hold about 32 grains, actually a hair more than a .44Mag.

But regardless of actual weight, a full load of BP in a .45 will definitely get the attention of any one else on the range.
 
I'm home now and it looks like I'll be eating some more crow. A .45LC filled to overflowing, then leveled off at the top holds 41.5 grains of FFFg and 40.5 grains of FFg. That's Goex, from some really old cans. I forgot to look to see who made the case. Some brands may hold a bit more or less.
A .44WCF Winchester hull held 38.5 grains of FFg.

So filling one far enough to have moderate compression you could easily load 35 grains of Goex and still seat a bullet. I have loaded 35 grains in .44WCF but swelled some cases when seating bullets. Now I load about 25 grains and top it with corn meal. You don't need max power to kill cowboy action steel, and corn meal is cheaper than Goex.

Edit: JCT, did you get your ball mill from United Nuclear? I've look at there website and have been considering ordering one.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/bp.htm
 
I made my ball mill. You can make one for under $100, probably under $50 if you find the items for free or cheap.
That United Nuclear mill is no good. To small, not rated to roll with heavy lead balls very long. That and the fact that it's just a Harbor Freight mill for twice the cost!.
They'll work well enough for a very small batch (100-150 grams ) and you can find them on ebay for half of what UN charges.
You'll find pics of my ball mill here, I could have made it cheaper, but it's built to last: http://web.mac.com/jarrod_taylor/iWeb/Site/Black Powder.html
 
I just got off the phone with Mike from Hodgdon's and guess what? I can hold off on some of the crow. Pyrodex is a sulfur, charcoal gunpowder. Mike described it as a modified BP. I didn't push for the rest of the ingredients as I'm sure it's proprietary.
He also told me that 777 also is charcoal based. They do not make any powders with sugar or ascorbic acid.
 
That's interesting. So it's safe to say that the primary oxodizer in Pyrodex must be potassium perchlorate, if it was KNO3, then Pyrodex is just BP, I'm certain that's not the case.
They call it smokeless, not because it's smokeless, but so they can have it classified as a flammable solid and not an explosive. It's as smoky as any powder.
This is from the MSDS sheet on the web site:
Hazardous Components
(Chemical Identity: Common Name(s) CAS# OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV Other Limits %(optional)
Charcoal NA NA NA NA
Sulfur 7704349 NA NA NA
Potassium Nitrate 7757791 NA NA NA
Potassium Perchlorate 7778747 NA NA NA
Graphite 7782425 NA 2.5 mg/m3 Respirable Dust
Other: Other ingredients are trade secrets, but can be disclosed per 29 CFR 1910.1200(i)
 
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