Real ID act and guns

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When you can stroll across the border with relative ease, what's the point of keeping tabs on those of us who don't live "underground?"

My hunting areas are trashed by a steady stream of illegal immigrants. We see them, and the trash they leave behind, when we're out there. Anyone who says we're "cracking down" is full of crap.
 
Terrorism is just the current excuse to take away freedom and liberty, the drug war was losing support. The govt. has been exploiting the fear of terrorists ever since 9/11 and people are buying right into the propaganda. The RealID Act will do nothing to stop terrorists. It's about restricting and controlling everyone, just like NAIS and some other things were. If it restricts access to guns, that's just the icing on the cake of tyranny it is.
 
I think it's a mistake made by people on both sides of the political spectrum to claim that it's either: "terrorists pose a genuine threat" OR "people in power use terrorism as an excuse to get more money and more power."

Why can't we acknowledge that it could be both?

You needn't argue over the threat posed by terrorists. We really don't even know what that is.

One can acknowledge that threat, or the possibility of that threat, and still question why we're being forced to give up our freedom and privacy.

This makes for an easier way to discuss the important issues of freedom, without being sidetracked by an endless debate about terrorists, who/what they are, and how much of a threat they pose to whom.
 
I think it's a mistake made by people on both sides of the political spectrum to claim that it's either: "terrorists pose a genuine threat" OR "people in power use terrorism as an excuse to get more money and more power."

Why can't we acknowledge that it could be both?
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I believe that I did in my earlier post.

The question is, which group should Americans fear more?
 
which group should Americans fear more?
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That's not a great question, either.

Fear does spur action, but vague fears don't lead to good choices.

We can also ask about what we as Americans value, without being caught up in these fears right away. Or maybe not on a gun board...

If the Founders were caught up only in fears, rather than a sense of what they really valued, we would have had the French Revolution, not the American Revolution.
 
Which group were you referring to in your original post? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
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Well, my fellow smartaleck :), since the RealID is touted as a solution to both the illegal immigration problem and the terrorism problem, it's possible I was referring to both. ;)

One group is here in droves, so my question was rhetorical from that angle.

As for the Jihadists, the 'They're already here!!!!!' comments don't ruffle my feathers too much. So, since you have good intel on the invasion, how many are here? Where are they holed up?

Back to the original topic, I can easily see the RealID becoming THE valid ID for firearms purchases from FFLs. The FFLs will certainly comply, as their livelihood depends on it. I don't suspect it'll have a huge impact on where guns are bought from. I mean, if you've got a DL, you'll probably get a RealID, and if you buy from gunstores, you'll continue to do so.

Another one of those incremental steps to further empowering the DC government that in and of itself is a pretty minor thing.
 
I would very much like to see a State, when threatened by withholding of Federal funds, tell their citizenry to withhold their Federal taxes. It would seem that two can play that game.
 
Logic would have it that if there were only 19 jihadist in America on September 11,2001,that it would have been an isolated incident and not part of a large conspiracy. That ALL the jihadist that were in America on that day were killed and that there were no others in waiting. We know that is not true. Perhaps there are no NEW jihadist arrivals AFTER September 11,2001 but those already here never left. To ignore that could be suicidal. I don't fear the illegal Mexicans,they are not bent on our destruction.
 
The FFLs will certainly comply, as their livelihood depends on it. I don't suspect it'll have a huge impact on where guns are bought from. I mean, if you've got a DL, you'll probably get a RealID, and if you buy from gunstores, you'll continue to do so.
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Well the original post was aimed at states who will not comply with RealID. In those cases, FFL's are stuck between a rock and a hard place: they don't listen to the feds they can have the ATF on them, they do listen to the feds they lose a substantial amount of business when the state's population can't supply the ID.
 
Note that this would affect dealers only. I think there would be as large of a market for guns after the act went into effect even if it cuts out dealers, it will just happen with unlicensed people doing the work. I think the feds will have a world-class "Doh!" moment when that it has backfired on them.
 
It comes as no surprise that California is all for this.
If it has any thing to do with stifling freedom
that RINO ShwartzenKennedy is all over it.
It would be nice if California didn't play ball as it
sends a big chunk of dough to the feds,that would get their attention.:neener:
 
I would very much like to see a State, when threatened by withholding of Federal funds, tell their citizenry to withhold their Federal taxes. It would seem that two can play that game.
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Now that I would love to see. Tell all the companies doing business there not to withhold their employees taxes at all! :evil:
 
Watch the movie freedom to fascism on google video. The real ID act was set to go on may '08 but half a dozen states have balked. One of the main reasons is the cost to implement it. Watch the Federal government (worried more about dissent than terrorists) will agree to fund the states as they have with cctv cameras being everywhere and spy satalites, and phone tapping, email tapping, cell phone tapping, etc. The only thing they have juridiction over in interstate activity-so they don't have any opposition with controlling airline travel, and want to set up check points at state lines for auto travel. This is a Gestapo man's wet dream fascist state plan. Having all your pesonal info on a ID (read drivers licence readily accesible by huge computer systems and triangulating your cell phone location means you have NO privacy at all. The constitution is completely dead. See why your local courts don't have to obey it here http://www.apostle1.com/daily_news_2006/august2007/08-07-2007-flag.htm
When we let them make us get a passport (which has all your biometric information encoded on it) to travel outside the country they get most people to comply which means the rest have to or not travel. If most people refused and complained to their congressman they would have let it go. We hang together or we HANG alone.
 
Despite that Oklahoma law, the last time I renewed my driver's license I had to give a thumb print, which I thought was one of the consequences of the Real ID act. Or maybe the "anti real ID" law was passed after I renewed my license, and that's why there's that "retrieve and destroy biometric data" language.
 
I didn't see Texas in the states that are against this.

I may have to move if my state supports this crap.
 
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