recent travel by air with a firearm

[ohgrady]

I flew out of St. Louis last week on Northwest. I had one case with two rifles. I called Northwest to make sure I had updated information on there policies for firearms. The first guy I talked to (who sounded like he was from another country) didn't have a clue and told me stuff different from what is on their website. He said I would have to pay an oversize fee. After thoroughly reviewing NW's website, I called again - the second guy I talked with wasn't sure and gave me the secret number to the ticket counter in St. Louis. I got the supervisor in ST. Louis. He was a nice guy and said as long as I didn't go over 50 pounds, I was fine. He saw me check in the next day and talked to me a couple of minutes-again he was helpful and courteous.

Then I had to take my case to TSA. They opened the case upside down. I hollered twice that the case was upside down to the guy-he ignored me or didn't hear me - one of his coworkers who was near me asked me (with an attitude) "Does it make a difference?" I said yes-I've packed it a certain way and things will move around. My complaint went on deaf ears. While TSA opened my case, a crowd of TSA employees started to gather-my case had a WASR10 and an AES10B in it. One TSA employee asked me if my rifles were Winchesters-I held back on the smart-ass comment and just told him they were Romanians. The guy going through the case asked me if they were automatics. I again held back on the smart-assed reply and only told him they were semi-auto's.

I flew back to St. Louis on Delta yesterday. There weren't any problems checking in with TSA or Delta until I picked up my case at baggage claim. Some how the end of the case had been dented - it was dented in to the point that the top of the case was gapping open a good eighth of an inch. I showed the case to a Delta agent- she said it was just a dent. I showed her how the case was not properly closing/sealing and she called a supervisor on the phone. The supervisor wouldn't even come out to look at the case-as far as he is concerned, it was just a dent. I kept complaining to the agent that was with me and she finally gave me a $50 voucher.

I could have mailed the case to myself UPS. But since I didn't check any other bags, my gun case was $15.00 as a piece of checked baggage, which is cheaper than UPS would have been. I had thought about putting both rifles in soft-sided tactical cases and then putting those cases in a box and mailing it UPS - but that was going to run $40.00 each way.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I could have mailed the case to myself UPS

Much better idea than passing anything through the airlines these days. I don't travel with guns, but I don't even check a bag for my clothes. I used UPS to mail all the clothes I got for Christmas back to myself. The airlines are worthless nowadays. They also have no money anymore, so I'd expect little in the way of compensation from them even after you had your bag destroyed.

 

[heron]

What I've heard about airline luggage is that it is secured in the plane so it won't shift, and they do this with cargo nets pulled tight by hydraulics. It's no surprise that lots of stuff gets mangled.

I used to work in a wheelchair shop and we sometimes had to build new chairs to replace those destroyed by the airlines. Airlines readily paid the claims, but just think about that for a bit.

If you plan to ship by air, you'd better put your stuff into a case that will survive severe abuse. I'd recommend that for UPS, too, since they have a reputation for destroying packages -- they make their reputation for on-time delivery, not intact delivery. I've seen UPS packages with truck-tire tracks on them, and one of their drivers said himself that as long as they can still read the label, it goes.

 

[Flyboy73]

I worked 10 years for Northwest as a ramp rat and the baggage is hand loaded and stacked. The cargo nets, if put up at all, is there to keep luggage from blocking the door. With the amount of staff they have, they expect you to get a piece of luggage from the door of the AC 15 feet to the back of the cargo bin, while the belt loader is going full speed. 150 bags off and 150 bags on in 20-30 min is common. Its no wonder the bags are handled the way they are.

With gun cases I allways treated them careful. Safe gun handling apply here. You never know if the gun is loaded. I have heard of guns going off while being handled.

Brion

 

[ZombiesAhead]

Flyboy73:

I have heard of guns going off while being handled.

Was the trigger being pulled at the time?

 

[ohgrady]

chamber flags

I put chamber flags in both rifles so that there would be no question about whether my rifles were unloaded. If the TSA guy in St. Louis would have opened my rifle case right side up he would have seen the flags.

 

[Flyboy73]

I think it was at the SFO airport where the gun went off. It was told to us in training, that it was in a case and was dropped and went off. Maybe something in the case got into the trigger guard when dropped. Might have been in one the training films, can't remember for sure, it was 13 years ago.

But to the point i allways treated the gun cases like they were loaded, you never know.

I worked for a while at MSP and used to worked the ANC (Anchorage) flights during the summer and was normal to put around 70 or 80 guns on a flight. We normally stacked them seperately.

Brion

 

[209]

I put chamber flags in both rifles so that there would be no question about whether my rifles were unloaded. If the TSA guy in St. Louis would have opened my rifle case right side up he would have seen the flags.

I was at a range once and when they called a cease-fire one of the line safety guys came by to look at my guns. I hadn't yet shot the -15 yet and it had a chamber flag in it. He thought it was loaded.

If a gunnie gets confused about a chamber flag, I'd just imagine what a TSA worker would do if he didn't recognize it for what it was. I try to keep things real simple with those guys.

 

[Bailey Guns]

Whenever I fly anywhere these days I always take a handgun with me whether I can carry in the state I'm visiting or not.

Check-in at DIA is much easier as I'm always checked in outside of the normal check-in lines and then escorted to the TSA inspection area. The TSA people are generally totally ignorant about guns but have always been polite. They always ask if the gun is loaded, even when the slide is locked open and it should be apparent it isn't loaded. I usually put a Kershaw folder in the gun case, too. I've even had TSA agents ask while pointing at the Kershaw, "Is that a knife?" Sometimes it's hard, especially for me, not to be a smartass.

 

[federalfarmer]

Flying back home NorthWorst airlines LOST a pelican double rifle case with a semi-custom rifle and swarovski scope. I told the lady at bag claim that the case and contents valued at $5,000. She leaned in and said can you write down what it was ... my husband likes guns and he will be curious! Sure.
24 hours later case hand delivered to my house - all ok. That was a loooong 24 hours.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

After watching handlers offload mail one day, I REALLY don't like the idea of them handling any of my weapons.

I think the better idea is to UPS it.

 

[Landric]

I few in and out of Kansas City, MO two weeks ago. The only reason I checked a bag was because I wanted to take a handgun with me so I wouldn't be unarmed for the stay. I actually packed all my clothes in my carry on, the gun went in the checked bag with my girlfriend's stuff. Shipping to myself there wasn't really feasible, so I had to go with a checked bag.

I flew out of Raleigh-Durham on Southwest. TSA checked the gun in the lock box, then had me secure the box myself so I would know it was locked. I didn't have any issues in either direction with TSA, Southwest employees, or anything else.

I'm the kind of guy that pretty much always carries a primary and BUG. The only weapon I took to KC was my Glock 36, easy to carry, reasonably powerful, and the cheapest and easiest of my carry guns to replace in the event of "loss" in transit.

 

[ravonaf]

I think the better idea is to UPS it

I know some guys that load truck at UPS. I'm not even sure that's a good idea as it can still get just as damaged.

 

[Fish Miner]

I flew from white plains back to Florida and was taking my fathers 30-06 back with me- White plains is a tiny airport, and I guess no one flys guns out of there. The Counter folks did not even know what to do with my case another lady had to come over and show her the proper stickers to put on ect. When she realized I had the gun she wanted me out of there fast! Then walking the 20 or so steps over to the TSA I hear her calling for the police. Doh...

TSA agent has me unlock the case and step back- it is a Rem pump action but he could not figure out how to cycle the action and really did not know how to see if it was unloaded. We stood around for a while all the while people looking at me like I was a crazy person- gun case open to the world- cop never shows up...Finally TSA can see i'm getting a little itchy to go catch my flight so another TSA guy wanders over and say yah, we don't need the cops here. just go- They told me it would have to be picked up in the airline office when I landed- no prob- I go to the office expalin what im waiting for and wait and wait and wait. I see all the people from my flight leaving so I peek out side the office and see my gun case going round the carousel!!!! Quick check to see if anythin was missing and I bolted.

I'm driving next time.

 

[zoom6zoom]

another lady had to come over and show her the proper stickers to put on ect.

Not on the outside, I hope! That's not allowed anymore. Those big bright "GUN" stickers just helped the crooks pick out which bags to steal.

 

[Woodstock45678]

A buddy of mine works Fed-Ex here at SLC. I know it's not UPS, but still. He says if you ever ship something, make sure it's insured. They hire big heavy guys for a reason, and not because they can lift heavy boxes...It's to help 'settle' the boxes into the packing bins.

I sent my aluminum gun case through Delta and the ramp rats put a dent in the corner, right on the weld. Still don't know how that one happened.

It was nice going through an airport (TYS) that hires hillbillys at TSA - I opened the case (yes they let ME do it), guy looks at them and goes "OK, lock it up." and that was it.

 

[ohgrady]

They told me it would have to be picked up in the airline office when I landed- no prob- I go to the office expalin what im waiting for and wait and wait and wait. I see all the people from my flight leaving so I peek out side the office and see my gun case going round the carousel!!!!

At both Billings and St. Louis, my case was put on the carousel with all the other luggage. I didn't mind much about that in Billings. It's a small airport and the baggage area is very open. It bothered me in St. Louis though. The way the carousels are designed at STL and given the crowds-I'm concerned a crook could get your case with little effort.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Any difference in the procedure between handguns and longguns? Specifically with Frontier and United? Want to take a handgun along on my ski trip in March.

 

[chris in va]

I didn't have too much of a problem at Huntsville last year with my P11. However back at Dulles (in VA) I waited for at least 30 minutes for my bag at the carousel, only to find it sitting in a corner with some other bags.

 

[Babbalanja]

Bag lost, third-world service

Delta lost the bag with my S&W 10-5. Three days later it was sent to me via FedEx. The 10-5 was there but the Swiss Army Ambassador knife was gone. It's amazing how Third-world our air travel has become. The Asian counter worker's English was so poor that I couldn't understand what she was saying; I could make out numbers but not the words she spoke. When I declare a gun there is typically a panicked reaction from the employee and I'm stood here, told to stand there, and at least three people have to "inspect" the gun.

 

[chuckusaret]

My advise, fly Delta between Fl and Ct. never a problem

 

[SCKimberFan]

You never know if the gun is loaded.

Wrong. I KNOW if the gun is loaded or not. I check it.

 

[thesolidus]

Whenever you fly with firearms always use a heavy case, not the $!5 plastic ones.

Use an external lock. The TSA may have to cut the lock off to examine the gun and sticker...

Put an extra lock inside the case with a note "If case is opened please re-lock." Otherwise after a search it will arrive unlocked and be seized.

Put a bumper sticker that says "Sam's Fishing" or something on it so it looks like something other than a gun. People in line don't ask questions or give me grief. And last time I flew my gun case was sitting on the ground OUTside the office. Unguarded!

Put a big Go ARMY sticker INside. When you open the case at the airport anyone looking over your shoulder will assume your Military and you'll get a better attitude from TSA. If you never served "It's from a buddy at work..." Had someone in line giving me stink eye once till I started talking to TSA about the Army (out years ago) after that the dummy in line was all beaming praise. (So it's okay to carry a weapon to defend the country, but only if I'm somewhere else? Besides, I was catching food! (call it "Fishing for Deer" to confuse the naturalists.))

Or, I just found this online...
http://www.tuffpak.com/retail/product1.asp?P=TP-1049KYB#Variants

slap some golf stickers and your neighbors will all think you golf. Or a label that says "Industrial Survey Equipment, Fragile" 'cause who the hell wants one of those...

 

[TheDingy]

Here is a solution for your problem. Take them to small claims court, it works well. They won't even show up and if they do it will cost them more money than it is worth to them. I have had a few friends that have done that over lost luggage and bumped flights. The law is on your side, and you don't have to take it from them.

 

[Guns and more]

I think the posters experience is pretty typical today.
Very few people care about their job.
The good experienced airline people all took the buyout.
TSA and counter people must be trained thusly: "Just tell the customer anything and stand by your decision."
Am I overstating this? Fly every week and come back to me.

Here is a solution for your problem. Take them to small claims court, it works well. They won't even show up

True, they won't show up and you win a judgment. But then how do you collect? Not as easy as you state. It isn't like the judge makes them write a check to you.