Recoil comparison 12 ga. v 45-70

[CoalTrain49]

Just curious so I thought I would get some opinions. I've moved a lot of lead down range using many types of 12 ga shotguns but never owned or even shot a 45-70.

Just for the sake of comparison lets use a 7.5 lb o/u shotgun (one barrel loaded) and a single shot 45-70 of 7.5 lbs.

For the 12 ga. lets also use 1 oz of shot and 20 grs of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 11,000 psi.

For the 45-70 lets use a 405 gr bullet and 20 grains of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 13,000 psi. That would be a load for a Springfield trapdoor rifle and very light.

The bore of these firearms is drastically different and the 45-70 has a rifled barrel where the shotgun doesn't. The shot/bullet weight, velocity, psi (chamber pressure) of the cartridge and shot shell are about the same.

Which one will have more recoil and why?

Answer. I don't know.

 

[stanley_white]

I don’t have an answer to your question.

I do know that my Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 was much worse than my Mossberg 590A1 recoil-wise.

-Stan

 

[rabid wombat]

@CoalTrain49 Check out Chuck Hawks….it will get you close…

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
https://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

 

[CoalTrain49]

@CoalTrain49 Check out Chuck Hawks….it will get you close…

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
https://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

Looks like it's about the same. Thanks.

 

[rabid wombat]

Looks like it's about the same. Thanks.

Remember all the other variables…stock, recoil pad, fit, action type, etc….

 

[GNP]

The 45/70 I have (a Marlin 1895) with the 405 gr Remington ammo we use, IIRC it's about 1300fps, to me has less recoil than my 12 gauge express that I keep by the bed, it has a 20" barrel and is loaded with 3" 00 buck. I understand that's pretty subjective but all I got. I shot both in a short session just a few weeks ago so the impression is pretty fresh. I've had quite a few people over the years that seem intimidated by the 45/70 but the recoil is entirely dependent on what you load it with, there are some Buffalo Bore loads we've tried that will rattle your teeth.

 

[Show Me]

My single shot 12 with a heavy 3 inch turkey load hurts more than a 300 gr hdy with a full load of benchmark in my 22 inch 45-70. Normal load is 5744. Fact separates from fiction back when you could buy a new marlin

 

[johnjohn]

I have fired my Trapdoor Springfield with Remington 45/70 ammunition and its a light recoil. I can't really compare it to the Mosburg you mention because the only 12 ga. I own was my grandfather's single shot he bought in about 1900.

 

[Steve S.]

I would suspect that there are too many variables to generalize - the mathematics is objective but the shooter’s opinion is quite another. Stock fit, load, clothing, shooting position, mental state, shooter’s build, etc, all affect what the shooter thinks they feel from person to person by the exact same firearm - I think that it is simply a different opinion of the exact same thing from different shooters - very, very subjective up until you reach caliber extremes, then the opinions tend to cluster.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I’m going to input my non-scientific opinion since I have shot 12 ga slugs the majority of my life and am no stranger to 45-70 from Marlin lever guns.

IME, the 12 ga recoils harder in general BUT stock design is probably the reason. The Marlin rifle stock, though not perfect, is a considerably better fit and comfort while targeting. The Rem 870 I am familiar with has a normal shotgun stock with excessive drop that causes cheek slap upon firing.

 

[Jim Watson]

My trap gun has a good deal less felt recoil than the Ruger No 1 .45-70 I used to have, but it weighs more.

 

[jmr40]

The recoil from both can be all over the place depending on the load. With the loads you've suggested recoil should be pretty close, and not very bad at all. Roughly the same as typical 30-30 loads. Those are very light loads for both and from mid to heavy weight firearms.

If you start loading both to max loads suitable for lever action rifles recoil can easily exceed 375 H&H magnum and approach 458 WM levels. Especially since most of the big magnum rifles are in the 9-10 lb range compared to a more typical 7-8 lb range 12 ga or lever action 45-70. The most brutal recoil I ever felt was a tie between a 3 1/2" turkey load 12 ga. fired from a Remington 870 Super mag and some top end 500 gr 45-70 loads fired from a Marlin 45-70 rifle.

 

[Mars5l]

Id think you'd have to factor in action for the shotguns. IE pump, gas gun or Interia gun

 

[beag_nut]

The first post said to use an Over/Under for the shotgun.

 

[berettaprofessor]

A Free Recoil calculator tells me the free recoil energy of the Shotgun is 13.31 joules and the 45-70 would be 11.79 joules. So the 45-70 is lighter recoil.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Remember all the other variables…stock, recoil pad, fit, action type, etc….

This in spades. I'll shoot a cannon if it fits.
An 870 shooting low brass will bruise my shoulder after 5 rounds. Fitment is King. Weight is queen.

 

[tark]

Either one will knock you on yer' butt with heavy loads. But there are too many variables to factor in. The weight of the gun itself and stock design are just two. A max 45-70 load fired in my 10 1/2 pound rolling block feels like a 30-06 in an 8 pound rifle. The same load in a Ruger #3 carbine kicks like an elephant gun.

 

[Riomouse911]

Both can be a pussycat… or an absolute demon. The many reasons why are already mentioned above.

Stay safe.

 

[Jimster]

If you can handle one you can handle the other.

 

[tark]

If you can handle one you can handle the other.

and THAT bout' sums it up.

 

[daniel craig]

I've never shot anything that hurt more than a single shot 12 gauge with 3 inch deer slugs in it. I will never do that again.

 

[Mosin77]

It’s fascinating to me how the individual fit of stocks makes such a difference.

It’s also true that what you have been shooting before will make a big difference too in perceived recoil. Go from .22lr to a 12ga and it’s a monster. Go from .416 Rigby to 12ga and it’s like nothing.

I’ve never shot 12ga and .45-70 back to back but my instinct says recoil, objectively, should be similar, since velocity and projectile mass are similar. The 12ga is shooting 437.5gr of bullet and the trapdoor only 405. So theoretically the trapdoor will recoil a little less.

 

[GJeffB]

I recall sittling on a bench with my brand new Sharps 1874 replica ... 32" barrel, 10+/- pounds, ready to launch a 405gr cast RNFP factory. Everything I could do to not close my eyes, hunch up and grab that trigger quick. After the shot I moved the toothpick to the other side of my mouth, looked at my 32 year old son and said "that's not bad. not bad at all ..."

As has been mentioned, load, gun weight, balance, and a gazillion other factors are the difference.

-jb, now get that 405 speedin' along ...

 

[3Crows]

The recoil would be comparable. The shotgun would be more of a slap, the Marlin more of a shove. A shove as if the rifle is saying to you, I triple dawg dare you to load me up!

Cowboy loads in my Marlin SBL are fun and as I said it is more of a push than a slap. In fact nothing about the .45-70 in a lever gun is like a slap. At the higher end "bear" loads the nice shove is gone and it is a hammer on both ends. There is a reason I removed the Nikon African standard mount scope and went with a scout mounted Burris. Yes, it would come back and knock my shooting glasses off with the African despite generous eye relief.

All in all, they are both exaggerated, maybe, a little.

3C

 

[Handshaker]

I think my BFR in 45-70 recoils more than 12ga, unless its a 12ga pistol, lol. Then they are probably close.