351 WINCHESTER
Member
The bullet is going too fast for it's construction. The faster it goes the faster is mushrooms and stops.
Recovered Bullet from Buck, Thoughts?
- Thread starter Big Bad Bob
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jerkface11
Member
It turns the deer off like a switch so I wouldn't call it a bullet failure. Would a successful bullet make the deer deader?
If all the deer run 2-4 feet then what does it matter?
Where I hunt I really like an exit wound because a deer can run a long way in 5 seconds and a good blood trail is essential in tracking through the crap they tend to run into after being shot. I know that several years ago I started having this same problem with 30-06. I don't recall the details but I shot 5-6 deer and wasn't getting an exit wound. I was finding bullet fragments inside and the deer were dying PDQ so it wasn't the end of the world. I changed bullets and the problem disappeared. I wish I could give the details but I didn't keep records back then.
Where I hunt I really like an exit wound because a deer can run a long way in 5 seconds and a good blood trail is essential in tracking through the crap they tend to run into after being shot. I know that several years ago I started having this same problem with 30-06. I don't recall the details but I shot 5-6 deer and wasn't getting an exit wound. I was finding bullet fragments inside and the deer were dying PDQ so it wasn't the end of the world. I changed bullets and the problem disappeared. I wish I could give the details but I didn't keep records back then.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
This deer is dead, does that fact preclude bullet "failure"? Certainly not. It's not a matter of whether or not the bullet killed the deer. It's a matter of it doing what it's supposed to. Because the bullet came apart on the shoulder blade and only a small piece of the lead core made it to the vitals. Yes the deer is dead. It's still a bullet that failed. Why? Because it was a 300gr Hornady .405WCF factory load and it should've penetrated better than it did. It should NOT have behaved like a varmint bullet and basically exploded on impact. In this case, the doe was trying to get up and leave town and had to be brained to prevent it.
jerkface11
Member
Is it the bullets job to hold together or to anchor the animal you shot with it?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It's the bullet's job to do what it's designed to do. In assessing the bullet's performance, the fact that it kills the critter is completely irrelevant. In this case, the testing of the bullets on whitetail was going to lead directly to hunting Kudu in Africa. Which absolutely would've resulted in catastrophic failure. A lot of embarrassment, a lot of lost time and a lot of lost money.
So if your car's job is to get you to the airport by 4:00pm. If it falls completely apart in the parking lot, it's not a failure as long as it happened at the airport??? Sorry but your argument is 100% bogus.
So if your car's job is to get you to the airport by 4:00pm. If it falls completely apart in the parking lot, it's not a failure as long as it happened at the airport??? Sorry but your argument is 100% bogus.
Berger.Fan222
Member
The bullet in question here is the 208 AMAX, it is designed to hit the target and nothing else.
You cannot say a match bullet failed on game, because it was not designed for game.
You cannot say a match bullet failed on game, because it was not designed for game.
gamestalker
member
Wow, talk about separation! What happened to the core?
GS
GS
R.W.Dale
Member
It continued on and killed the deer
Seriously let's be realistic here. A little thin thin skinned lightly built whitetail deer isn't going to survive very well from soaking up 208g of ANYTHING in the heart lung area at relatively high velocity.
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DM~
Member
I agree with those that have said that bullet failed and it would NOT be my choice for hunting deer sized animals...
DM
DM
jerkface11
Member
Yeah he's only killed 9.
X-Rap
Member
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I'm no fan of using bullets under 100 gr on big game and limit myself to 150 for elk size and above but I've never seen undesirable results from a Ballistic tip in .25 and up on deer bones or not.
Hornady Interlocks, Sierra Game Kings, Rem Core Lokt are all simple and relatively cheap bullets that perform well too.
I am working with some Bergers in both their hunting and target line but haven't used them for hunting yet, for the most part the high dollar boutique bullets are a waste of money unless your after some serious dangerous game or after extreme accuracy.
Hornady Interlocks, Sierra Game Kings, Rem Core Lokt are all simple and relatively cheap bullets that perform well too.
I am working with some Bergers in both their hunting and target line but haven't used them for hunting yet, for the most part the high dollar boutique bullets are a waste of money unless your after some serious dangerous game or after extreme accuracy.
R.W.Dale
Member
Controlled expansion has it's place.
But getting through 1.5" of hide and rib age on a little ol whitetail ain't it.
I will take turning about 9lbs of vital organs into mush and ejecting it out an entrance hole the size of your fist for a spectacular if not messy DRT over an exit hole and a tracking job any day of the week. And is why I actually kinda like the 125g Sierra on deer from my 30-06. It ain't a bullet for shooting em up the ejection port. But if it's a good shot they for darn sure won't be shaking it off
I will say however terrain has some bearing in this. More so than the animal itself
But getting through 1.5" of hide and rib age on a little ol whitetail ain't it.
I will take turning about 9lbs of vital organs into mush and ejecting it out an entrance hole the size of your fist for a spectacular if not messy DRT over an exit hole and a tracking job any day of the week. And is why I actually kinda like the 125g Sierra on deer from my 30-06. It ain't a bullet for shooting em up the ejection port. But if it's a good shot they for darn sure won't be shaking it off
I will say however terrain has some bearing in this. More so than the animal itself
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's great as long as your shot placement is perfect, the animal doesn't move as the shot breaks and no shoulder bones are encountered. Another example of using a varmint bullet to do a big game bullet's job, for the sake of convenience.
jerkface11
Member
A 208 grain thirty caliber bullet is a varmint bullet?
eastbank
Member
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- 5,021
In the case of the A-Max, you betcha. Take the A-Max and add a cannalure (to hold it together) and you have an SST, which Hornady still considers an explosive bullet. For hunting whitetails the A-Max at at 300 WSM velocities will knock them for a loop. I wouldn't use them myself, and I would stay away from them on elk. I am into lots of bone crushing penetration and plenty of leakage. However, if you recover the critter, use what ever trips your trigger.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Judging by its performance, absolutely! Would anyone expect a 300gr .405 to act like a varmint bullet and be barely capable of dropping a 100lb doe? Of course not but that's exactly what it did.
jerkface11
Member
Are you sure that's why it barely worked? Looks like a pretty high impact to me.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yeah, blame the shot placement. I never intentionally hunt deer with varmint loads. So I usually have no issues going through a shoulder on the way in and expected to do so on that shot. On a doe, I might add, moving in very low light.
Sorry but for a 300gr .405 to fragment on any part of a 100lb doe is an utter failure. No matter how you define it.
jerkface11
Member
And a bad shot is a bad shot no matter how big around the bullet is.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The shot was angled down out of a treestand and at short range. A piece of the core of the bullet made it through the lungs and the top of the heart. Do you really think that a 300gr .405 completely fragmenting on the shoulder of a 100lb deer is acceptable? We obviously have differing definitions of "failure". 
Here's an obviously much-needed hint. That's not supposed to happen. The bullet should've made a small entrance wound, penetrated the shoulder, broken it with little deformation, traveled through the vitals and exited out the opposite ribcage while only expanding to maybe .45 caliber or a little bigger. That bullet should do the same thing on elk, moose and brown bear. It doesn't because it's too lightly constructed, even for deer.
Here's an obviously much-needed hint. That's not supposed to happen. The bullet should've made a small entrance wound, penetrated the shoulder, broken it with little deformation, traveled through the vitals and exited out the opposite ribcage while only expanding to maybe .45 caliber or a little bigger. That bullet should do the same thing on elk, moose and brown bear. It doesn't because it's too lightly constructed, even for deer.
DM~
Member
I said the "bullet" failed, I didn't say the "hunt" failed...
You do know there's a difference, don't you??
DM
R.W.Dale
Member
In this case There isn't one.
I don't even know where you could even begin to claim the bullet "failed"
Since failure implies it didn't do something the manufacturer claims it can. In this case hornady making no claim whatsoever as to the a-maxes performance on game and in fact recommends against it.
For the OP the bullet in question is far from a failure if it's anchored 9 deer in a row with no tracking needed. The saying about can't fix what isn't broken comes to mind
DM~
Member
OK, so you don't know the difference....
DM
DM
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