Recovered Bullet from Buck, Thoughts?
- Thread starter Big Bad Bob
- Start date
- Status
R.W.Dale
Member
Fragile bullets for deer with sufficient mass can and do work wonderfully well when used correctly in the right circumstances.
Don't believe everything the gun mag writers tell you that you need ammo that costs $45 a box to kill the crap out of a lightly built timid little forest creature.
Like I said they have their time and place. I match the bullet and for that matter cartridge to the range, room and impact speeds I expect to encounter on a hunt. A deer is a deer so that's actually the constant in my bullet selecting process.
Don't believe everything the gun mag writers tell you that you need ammo that costs $45 a box to kill the crap out of a lightly built timid little forest creature.
Like I said they have their time and place. I match the bullet and for that matter cartridge to the range, room and impact speeds I expect to encounter on a hunt. A deer is a deer so that's actually the constant in my bullet selecting process.
gamestalker
member
Just cause it works, doesn't make it optimal. My idea of a good bullet, is one that will leave a good fist sized exit wound, or bust through heavy bone and still get to the vitals. An exploding bullet isn't likely to consistently do that if the bullet impacts the heaviest portion of the shoulder. Wouldn't you want it to bust through and blow some holes in the vitals, and even continue through the opposite shoulder? I would. And it doesn't require a 200 gr. bullet to accomplish that either.
GS
GS
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,080
Why do you think Hornady recommends against using the A-Max's? Because of the excellent terminal performance on deer? Because of the incredibly low likelihood of bullet failure? Deer can be killed with field points from a bow as well as decent broadheads, but they are not recommended. Why is that? Why are non-expanding bullets generally illegal in most stat for hunting deer? Maybe because of poor terminal performance leading to lost deer, even tho they will still kill deer quite dead when hit in the right place? We as hunters have the responsibility to use the proper tools to assure quick, clean, and humane kills on the animals we pursue. Again, one should use what the feel is best under the scenarios and circumstance they will encounter. 9 dead deer mean nuttin' if the next one suffers and is lost because of similar bullet failure. If you read the OP, you'll see it's only two deer the author has taken with the A-Max bullets. This is not a questions of using something just because it works twice under ideal conditions. This should be about using the proper bullet for all conditions. A 300 WSM is a lot of rifle for the average deer and is one reason why sub-standard bullets(even the manufacturer thinks so) have worked.
The Op asked,
and folks have given their opinions. Seems to be what the author wanted.
jerkface11 said:
But not with the A-MAX.
Big Bad Bob said:
I use the 208gr A-MAX the way Hornady intended for the thin jacketed, high BC bullet i.e. long-range target shooting. There are much better bullet designs for hunting and I'm with CraigC ... the bullet failed, regardless of the outcome for the doe.
Big Bad Bob
Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2011
- Messages
- 388
Well for starters I want to say thank you for all the opinions given thus far. Never thought this thread would generate such hot debate.
Reading all the comments just wanted to clarify some points.
1. I have killed 9 deer with this rifle, 5 with 180 grain soft point (factory Federal Power Shok, no exits) 2 with 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP, 2 with 208 grain Hornandy A-Max.
2. 300 WSM is alot of gun for whitetail, sure is. This rifle was built as a beanfield rifle, it has Teludyne Tech Straightjacket barrel System and muzzle brake. Given the extra distance of southern soybean fields I tailored some long range loads to it, that would give the extra legs in velocity and ft/lbs at extended range.
3. The deer in question, the jacket, whats left of it was found on the opposite side of the impact just almost through the hide. What happened to core? Good question but when I was cleaning the deer at the processor there were alot of bone and lead fragments.
4. The chest cavity looked like a small bomb went off, a solid punch through the ribs, and massive destruction to the vertebrae at the top of the chest cavity. Next time I will take a picture.
5. I am aware that Hornandy says not to use this bullet for deer, clearly yes when the jacket and core separate the bullet failed. Its hard to believe that this bullet in this caliber, generating over 3,100 ft/lbs is "inferior" for killing whitetail.
My OP was directed not so much at the AMAX but at all the bullets I have tried thus far being unable to exit. Of the 9, 4 were shot center chest, the rest have all been mid shoulder hits. I find this peculiar. All deer have been DRT, hence the "2-Foot Rifle" nickname, not a complaint, just wanted to know how it could be I not was getting any through through shots.
Reading all the comments just wanted to clarify some points.
1. I have killed 9 deer with this rifle, 5 with 180 grain soft point (factory Federal Power Shok, no exits) 2 with 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP, 2 with 208 grain Hornandy A-Max.
2. 300 WSM is alot of gun for whitetail, sure is. This rifle was built as a beanfield rifle, it has Teludyne Tech Straightjacket barrel System and muzzle brake. Given the extra distance of southern soybean fields I tailored some long range loads to it, that would give the extra legs in velocity and ft/lbs at extended range.
3. The deer in question, the jacket, whats left of it was found on the opposite side of the impact just almost through the hide. What happened to core? Good question but when I was cleaning the deer at the processor there were alot of bone and lead fragments.
4. The chest cavity looked like a small bomb went off, a solid punch through the ribs, and massive destruction to the vertebrae at the top of the chest cavity. Next time I will take a picture.
5. I am aware that Hornandy says not to use this bullet for deer, clearly yes when the jacket and core separate the bullet failed. Its hard to believe that this bullet in this caliber, generating over 3,100 ft/lbs is "inferior" for killing whitetail.
My OP was directed not so much at the AMAX but at all the bullets I have tried thus far being unable to exit. Of the 9, 4 were shot center chest, the rest have all been mid shoulder hits. I find this peculiar. All deer have been DRT, hence the "2-Foot Rifle" nickname, not a complaint, just wanted to know how it could be I not was getting any through through shots.
scottishkat
Member
My OP was directed not so much at the AMAX but at all the bullets I have tried thus far being unable to exit. Of the 9, 4 were shot center chest, the rest have all been mid shoulder hits. I find this peculiar. All deer have been DRT, hence the "2-Foot Rifle" nickname, not a complaint, just wanted to know how it could be I not was getting any through through shots.
Bob I'm betting you're getting larger entrance wounds than caliber size. If so it is because of the violent impact of the bullet and the game not being able to absorb the impact. As stated in previous when the 208 AMAX gets a chance to slow down to say 30-06 velocities the bullet will go through but not all of it the fragmentation during impact is what is creating this. With the 300 WSM this will happen at 350 or 400 yards.
I used to use the 140 AMAX IN 6.5mm when I could still buy them. They are certainly emphatic when used with proper weight game like our southern whitetails say 150 pounds maximum. I would not use them in Canada or the north where the deer can get to 250.
Check out TerminalBallisticsResearch.com they have some well written articles or bullet performance on game in their knowledge base with images etc. There is plenty of info on the AMAX including the 208.
I personally find the AMAX to be an excellent choice for deer weighing less than 150 pounds and for the 100 pound average or less they are really quite something.
I have been using the NBT of late can't find the AMAX anywhere and results are not quite as emphatic.
Good luck and shoot straight
Bob
Bob I'm betting you're getting larger entrance wounds than caliber size. If so it is because of the violent impact of the bullet and the game not being able to absorb the impact. As stated in previous when the 208 AMAX gets a chance to slow down to say 30-06 velocities the bullet will go through but not all of it the fragmentation during impact is what is creating this. With the 300 WSM this will happen at 350 or 400 yards.
I used to use the 140 AMAX IN 6.5mm when I could still buy them. They are certainly emphatic when used with proper weight game like our southern whitetails say 150 pounds maximum. I would not use them in Canada or the north where the deer can get to 250.
Check out TerminalBallisticsResearch.com they have some well written articles or bullet performance on game in their knowledge base with images etc. There is plenty of info on the AMAX including the 208.
I personally find the AMAX to be an excellent choice for deer weighing less than 150 pounds and for the 100 pound average or less they are really quite something.
I have been using the NBT of late can't find the AMAX anywhere and results are not quite as emphatic.
Good luck and shoot straight
Bob
First, I admit I only read about half of the posts.
That being said, IMO the reason you get away with using that type of bullet is because you use a 300WSM. Its big enough, fast enough, and violent enough to do the trick by fragmenting, even if hitting bone.
But on smaller calibers, like a .243 for example, a fragmenting bullet has far more potential to wound a deer. I wouldn't try that with a .243 but wouldn't think twice with a 30 mag.
That being said, IMO the reason you get away with using that type of bullet is because you use a 300WSM. Its big enough, fast enough, and violent enough to do the trick by fragmenting, even if hitting bone.
But on smaller calibers, like a .243 for example, a fragmenting bullet has far more potential to wound a deer. I wouldn't try that with a .243 but wouldn't think twice with a 30 mag.
- Status
