reloading 9mm luger
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Lyman #47 manual:
147 grain LRN-FP #356637 mold.
Clays = 1.9 start for 669 FPS.
2.8 (Compressed charge) MAX LOAD for 873 FPS.
700X = 2.7 Start for 803 FPS.
3.3 MAX LOAD for 921 FPS.
BTW: If you are gonna load unknown brands of lead bullets, you really need to get a Lyman manual.
rcmodel
147 grain LRN-FP #356637 mold.
Clays = 1.9 start for 669 FPS.
2.8 (Compressed charge) MAX LOAD for 873 FPS.
700X = 2.7 Start for 803 FPS.
3.3 MAX LOAD for 921 FPS.
BTW: If you are gonna load unknown brands of lead bullets, you really need to get a Lyman manual.
rcmodel
Simply my take, but taking one of the most unforgiving propellants for handgun loads (Clays) + a very heavy bullet for this caliber that will need to be seated rather deeply = a bad combination... Not dangerous per se when used as directed, just not what I would choose if given a choice. This is especially true if you are a beginning reloader.
For me, anything faster than WW231 for most 9mm loads is a no-go, especially if I were to use a 147 grain bullet. Even in 9mm, when I see a min-to-max charge weight range of a half a grain for a certain propellant (700x), I get the heeby geebies, especially with a propellant like 700x that some people have trouble keeping within +/- .2 grains during normal reloading. I would go with something that has a slower pressure curve, i.e. AA5, Unique, HS-6, Herco...
For me, anything faster than WW231 for most 9mm loads is a no-go, especially if I were to use a 147 grain bullet. Even in 9mm, when I see a min-to-max charge weight range of a half a grain for a certain propellant (700x), I get the heeby geebies, especially with a propellant like 700x that some people have trouble keeping within +/- .2 grains during normal reloading. I would go with something that has a slower pressure curve, i.e. AA5, Unique, HS-6, Herco...
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
+1
I couldn't agree more.
I'd probably go with a lighter bullet too!
147 grain 9mm is an after-thought that came along about 75 years after the cartridge was designed for maximum efficiency with 115 - 124 grain bullets.
rcmodel
I couldn't agree more.
I'd probably go with a lighter bullet too!
147 grain 9mm is an after-thought that came along about 75 years after the cartridge was designed for maximum efficiency with 115 - 124 grain bullets.
rcmodel
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Thats good to know!
Thanks
I gotta get me one of those.
Had it on my "go to Cabela's" shopping list since I didn't get one for xmas last year.
But I still haven't!
rcmodel
Thanks
I gotta get me one of those.
Had it on my "go to Cabela's" shopping list since I didn't get one for xmas last year.
But I still haven't!
rcmodel
nitesite
Member
My choices for 9mm (and I do reload for it so this isn't just a mental excercise) have never included Clays or 700-X. Those two powders are just too fast and spikey.
Galil5.56 nailed it.
Galil5.56 nailed it.
Of the two, I'd be more willing to experiment with 700X than Clays. A bullet with weight outside the "usual" range and a cartridge that's sensitive to darned near ANY change in the reloading specs is a situation for which I think Unique is a good powder. It might not give you optimal performance (then again, it might), but it's among the most forgiving of propellants in situations such as these.
glockgod
Member
147gr Rainier + 4gr Unique has turned out to be my favorite match load in my Glocks. Chronos at 980fps out of a G17-as with any new load start low and proceed with caution.
poolpedler
Member
buy some WSF and start at 3.7 gn
I use 3.8.....light and accurate!
I use 3.8.....light and accurate!
threefeathers
member
700X is a great powder for 9mm and 3.7 grains is perfect.
I agree, and Unique can easily match std velocity service loads, and can even be safely used to match many companies "+P" velocities while staying under even SAMMI's std pressure spec.
Unique is a marvelous propellant in 9mm, and likes mild to wild, cast bullets and jacketed equally. I consider it the ideal propellant for beginners because of its high, case spilling bulk with a double charge, and even us old reloading dogs know there is little better for this caliber with any commonly available bullet. Also, even with a completely full case and a 115-124 grain bullet seated normally, I am willing to bet that proof pressures are still a long way off... High bulk and moderate speed sounds like a good combination to have for a beginner.
I have seen a hell of a lot of propellants come and go, yet old fuddy-dutty Unique keeps chugging along, and a lot of folks who damned it and switched, have come back to it. Been around for about 110 years, and I'm sure many generations ahead will sing its praises, long after the every thing "EXTREME" buzzword crap is over.
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
roscoemm,
You've gotten some very good advice in this thread, I hope you use it. Like said above, Clays will spike in pressure quickly especially with that heavy a bullet.
I would suggest using Unique, HS-6, Power Pistol, 800-X or Longshot for the best results using a 147gr Jacketed bullet. Using a 147gr lead bullet will limit your choices a lot. I would stay away from Power Pistol, 800-X and Longshot and try either Unique or HS-6. HS-6 would be my first choice since it works well with lead bullets. I use HS-6 in my .38 Special +P rounds using a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet with great results.
You've gotten some very good advice in this thread, I hope you use it. Like said above, Clays will spike in pressure quickly especially with that heavy a bullet.
I would suggest using Unique, HS-6, Power Pistol, 800-X or Longshot for the best results using a 147gr Jacketed bullet. Using a 147gr lead bullet will limit your choices a lot. I would stay away from Power Pistol, 800-X and Longshot and try either Unique or HS-6. HS-6 would be my first choice since it works well with lead bullets. I use HS-6 in my .38 Special +P rounds using a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet with great results.
4.8 to 5.5 grains of Unique with a 125 23 bhn Lead bullet Semi Round Nose
4.8 to 5.5 grains of Unique with a 115 FMJ round nose
4.8 to 5.5 grains of Unique with a 124 FMJ round nose
I cut a shell to size for charging. I got tired of weighing all the charges for 9mm. I check them every now and then, but none are over 5.5 grains and none are under 4.8.
I shoot 2" to 3" groups at 15 to 25 yards all day long with my XD9 Service.
4.8 to 5.5 grains of Unique with a 115 FMJ round nose
4.8 to 5.5 grains of Unique with a 124 FMJ round nose
I cut a shell to size for charging. I got tired of weighing all the charges for 9mm. I check them every now and then, but none are over 5.5 grains and none are under 4.8.
I shoot 2" to 3" groups at 15 to 25 yards all day long with my XD9 Service.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
SO, you're saying you run .7 grain charge variation in 9mm?
On purpose!
Mercy mercy!
rcmodel
On purpose!
Mercy mercy!
rcmodel
Oberleutnant
Member
Relodeing 147gr. 9mmPara.
Ck in the Accurate arms relodeing,as I used AA2,4 all of the wts.147,125,124,114,93gr,cast
lead.-Charlie............
Ck in the Accurate arms relodeing,as I used AA2,4 all of the wts.147,125,124,114,93gr,cast
lead.-Charlie............
Not really on purpose, rcmodel, but it happens.
These are just plinkers, and as I have mentioned they shoot very well. I leave the target shooting up to the rifles.
I don't have an issue with the spread. I know it is a safe spread. I would say that very few are more than .3 off which is to be expected from a dipper of any kind. Wouldn't you say?
Spending 80 dollars on a dispenser just doesn't seem feasible right now, and the dispenser couldn't get me anymore close than what I am getting with a dipper as far as speed goes..
I would just like to say that very few are 4.8. Most are 5.0 on the nose, but you can get up to 5.5 and not over if the dipper is level, or you can get a little less if you have a tilt. No big deal.
I will post up my last shoot with the 9mm with the use of dippers, and you judge if you would change anything...
These are just plinkers, and as I have mentioned they shoot very well. I leave the target shooting up to the rifles.
I don't have an issue with the spread. I know it is a safe spread. I would say that very few are more than .3 off which is to be expected from a dipper of any kind. Wouldn't you say?
Spending 80 dollars on a dispenser just doesn't seem feasible right now, and the dispenser couldn't get me anymore close than what I am getting with a dipper as far as speed goes..
I would just like to say that very few are 4.8. Most are 5.0 on the nose, but you can get up to 5.5 and not over if the dipper is level, or you can get a little less if you have a tilt. No big deal.
I will post up my last shoot with the 9mm with the use of dippers, and you judge if you would change anything...
Eb1,
Many year ago when I started loading lead bullets in 06 and 30/30, I used homemade dippers, Unique, and even harder to dip Red Dot. I don't recall spreads that wide, and IMO using dippers is all about consistent technique and procedure.
For me, I would plunge the dipper bottom first allowing the propellant to fall in to fill and form a slight mound, slowly lift, and gently strike it level. As a safety check, I found that a paper mate pen fit perfectly and I inserted it with a mark on the tube to make sure all cases in the block were properly charged. I really think you can and will get a .2-.3 grain variance from where you want with perhaps more practice.
Good luck
Many year ago when I started loading lead bullets in 06 and 30/30, I used homemade dippers, Unique, and even harder to dip Red Dot. I don't recall spreads that wide, and IMO using dippers is all about consistent technique and procedure.
For me, I would plunge the dipper bottom first allowing the propellant to fall in to fill and form a slight mound, slowly lift, and gently strike it level. As a safety check, I found that a paper mate pen fit perfectly and I inserted it with a mark on the tube to make sure all cases in the block were properly charged. I really think you can and will get a .2-.3 grain variance from where you want with perhaps more practice.
Good luck
your right, Gali.
I might have exaggerated, but I have come up with different techniques of dipping to get 4.8 to 5.5.
I can't argue that the spread sounds large, but if one or two out of a 200 round session happen to be 4.8 and then one or three happen to be 5.5, then I think that is pretty darn good.
Like I said. Let me post my last shoot target and you guys judge me then.
It is 10 round in the head and 20 to the body. I did not shoot very long. Took my to test a Model 60 .357. She shot most of the time, but I happened to pull the trigger a few as well.
I will get it up here tonight when I get home.
EDIT::
Also would like to add that my goal is 5.0 grains of Unique for 115 to 125 grain bullets lead or FMJ. With that addition you could say that 4.8 to 5.0 is mainly what I get with my dippers, but sometimes there might be a rounded top or two.
I might have exaggerated, but I have come up with different techniques of dipping to get 4.8 to 5.5.
I can't argue that the spread sounds large, but if one or two out of a 200 round session happen to be 4.8 and then one or three happen to be 5.5, then I think that is pretty darn good.
Like I said. Let me post my last shoot target and you guys judge me then.
It is 10 round in the head and 20 to the body. I did not shoot very long. Took my to test a Model 60 .357. She shot most of the time, but I happened to pull the trigger a few as well.
I will get it up here tonight when I get home.
EDIT::
Also would like to add that my goal is 5.0 grains of Unique for 115 to 125 grain bullets lead or FMJ. With that addition you could say that 4.8 to 5.0 is mainly what I get with my dippers, but sometimes there might be a rounded top or two.
Eb1,
I have no doubt you have a great target, and are a skilled shooter, my point was that others may desire a target weight that is at, or even above book max, and then we could have trouble with wide positive spreads. As you stated your loads are under max, and all is well.
As you know Unique is far from the best metering propellant due to its physical makeup, and I still think you can get a rather consistent +/- .2 grains with a decent measure... I know my Dillon powder measure can do it with a consistent routine. Now 800x... Hockey pucks would probably meter better!
I have no doubt you have a great target, and are a skilled shooter, my point was that others may desire a target weight that is at, or even above book max, and then we could have trouble with wide positive spreads. As you stated your loads are under max, and all is well.
As you know Unique is far from the best metering propellant due to its physical makeup, and I still think you can get a rather consistent +/- .2 grains with a decent measure... I know my Dillon powder measure can do it with a consistent routine. Now 800x... Hockey pucks would probably meter better!
HANDLOADER
member
Try 3.75 grains of 700-X I use it for Ipsc and find that it is a knocker but it can be a hard load to shoot onehanded. Good luck and god bless.
WHAT CAN'T THE NRA DO?
WHAT CAN'T THE NRA DO?
wally
Member
3.7gr Unique and a 147gr hard cast lead flat point is a sweet shooting steel plate load. Burns very clean too, Unique is pretty dirty in low pressure loads like .45ACP and .38Specal but very clean in high pressure loads like 9mm and .40S&W.
A double charge will spill on the floor and be obvious when you try to seat the bullet. Another advantage to Unique. I load everything handgun with it except the full house magnums and 10mm for whcih I use Blu Dot, but Unique does well with these too if you accept a bit less velocity.
--wally.
A double charge will spill on the floor and be obvious when you try to seat the bullet. Another advantage to Unique. I load everything handgun with it except the full house magnums and 10mm for whcih I use Blu Dot, but Unique does well with these too if you accept a bit less velocity.
--wally.
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