Reloading Myths - Busted or Confirmed?

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1911Tuner said:
Most of the wear comes from the by-products of burning the powder. Ash and grit and unburned grains become a fine lap, and because they embed into lead much earlier and much faster than in jacket material...they're not ground into the barrel steel as aggressively.
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I should have clarified and divided Myth #1 into surface hardened barrel (like Melonite/Tennifer surface treated barrels) and regular steel barrels. Bench rest shooters will clean the burnt carbon residue out of the barrel frequently but many Glocks have been shot hundreds of thousands of rounds with no noticeable wear.

How about:
MYTH #1A - Shooting residue in barrel will wear steel barrels.
MYTH #1B - Shooting residue in barrel may wear surface hardened barrels (Glock Tennifer/M&P Melonite).


EddieNFL said:
What are we up to, 9 or 10?
Click to expand...
It would help to number the myths to make it easier to keep track of them as we confirm or bust them. :D
 
It would help to number the myths to make it easier to keep track of them as we confirm or bust them.
Click to expand...
OK, I compiled what we have so far. Looks like #1A, #3, #4 are confirmed/busted. Chime in if they need more discussion.

MYTH #1A - Shooting residue in barrel will wear steel barrels - CONFIRMED: Shooting residue (carbon, ash, grit, etc.) may get harder than regular steel barrel surface and scratch/wear if left in the barrel.
MYTH #1B - Shooting residue in barrel may wear surface hardened barrels (Glock Tennifer/M&P Melonite).
MYTH #2 - When scrubbing leading out of barrels, you should only use copper scrubbing pad material, not copper plated steel/stainless steel.
MYTH #3 - WD40 will remove bluing on metal - BUSTED: Per WD-40 company.
MYTH #4 - Glock/M&P barrels are coated with Tennifer/Melonite - BUSTED: They are surface hardening treatments not finish coating.
MYTH #5 - 5.56 Military brass has less case capacity than Commercial 223 brass.
MYTH #6 - Reduced OAL on bottle neck rifle rounds will increase pressure.
MYTH #7 - The people who reply to your post really care about your problem, issue, opinion.
MYTH #8 - To achieve top velocity you use a faster burning propellant for short barrels and slower for long
MYTH #9 - Using Lee Powder Dippers results is inaccurate and dangerous ammo.
MYTH #10 - WD 40 is a great cleaner
MYTH #11 - Crimped ammunition is more consistent (started by a certain die manufacturer)
 
I hope I didn't arrive too late to join in. I think there will be a pretty good consensus among experienced hand loaders in their evaluation of my proposed myths:

Myth #12: If you store smokeless powder (15lb. or less) in approved containers in your garage or in a closet, it is likely to explode if the garage or house catches on fire.

I think most hand loaders already know that smokeless powder doesn't explode; it burns very rapidly to produce a lot of gas when confined in a cartridge in a gun barrel. But your non-shooting friends, neighbors, and relatives may not be so well informed. They may not realize that smokeless powder (or loaded ammunition) stored in approved non-confining containers will not explode (nor burn so rapidly as to produce effects which are similar to an explosion) when ignited by heat or fire. (But smokeless powder can, however, be a fire hazard which will accelerate the spread of a fire if it is stored improperly or if you store too much of it in one place in your home.)

Myth #13: A hand loader should never use a powder charge greater than the maximum shown in the reloading manual or in the reloading data produced by the powder manufacturer.

This one is kind of tricky, depending on how you state it and on the specific circumstances or the individual firearm for which you are loading. IMO, it's a good guideline (for me, anyway) to observe consistently. I currently hand load ammunition for .44 mag, 10 mm Auto, and the .300 Win Mag. I typically just use the start charge, or a charge that is 5% to 10% below maximum. After all, one of the best kept secrets about magnum cartridges is that you don't always need the maximum possible velocity. Sometimes 100 to 200 fps below max will get the job done just as well. Especially when loading ammo for practice.

Typically, with the calibers I load, I usually end up getting 50 to 120 fps less than I could get by using the maximum charge. My loads are powerful enough to match closely the trajectory of max loaded ammo. They produce recoil that approximates the recoil of max loaded ammo closely enough to provide realistic practice. The terminal effect on game and other targets will likely be indistinguishable when comparing my ammo to max loaded ammo. My brass lasts longer, and my guns are probably subjected to less wear and tear per 100 rounds fired.

The reason I do this is to extend my safety margin so as to allow for unforseen problems. I always use factory loaded (usually Gold Dot) ammo to carry for SD. If I feel I need ammo with maximum velocity for hunting or defense against an animal, then I buy a box or two from Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, or Hornady Super Performance. They have the expertise and equipment to measure pressure and to inspect and test their ammo to make sure it is safe. One box of factory ammo usually lasts for years, because I will usually shoot less than 10 rounds per year refining my sight adjustments for the factory load, and I will only shoot 1 to 3 rounds during hunting season.

Myth 14: A careful handloader can usually produce ammo that shoots with more precision (smaller groups) than factory ammo.

This is another tricky one. The word "usually" is the kicker, and it also depends on the particular rifle or handgun you are loading for.

Thirty to forty years ago it was pretty common for handloaders who worked carefully to produce ammo which yielded smaller groups for most firearms used for hunting, varmint hunting, plinking, and self defense than the available factory ammo. This often occurred with match ammunition used for target competition as well.

In the 21st century, it has become much more common for factory ammo to shoot with equal (or more )precision than the ammo which most hand loaders produce for use in their hunting, plinking, and defense firearms. I can't speak about current commercially produced match ammo, because it has been decades since I have fired a commercially produced match center fire cartridge.

Myth 15: Some ranchers, traditional healers, and alternative medicine healers use WD40 to relieve joint pain and stiffness by spraying it directly on their knees, elbows, shoulders, wrists, or other joints. Sometimes they use it on an animal's joints as well.

This was true in the past. I have seen ranchers spray their own joints and the joints of some of their ailing animals. I haven't seen anyone do it in the last 20 years.

I don't believe it provides any benefit, and I recommend that no one should try it. But at least I never saw or heard of anyone using WD40 as a substitute for K-Y lubricant.
 
Myth #9

I personally use lee dippers for my regular pinking/ pest control ammo. With a little practice, you can get decent consistency with your loads. Dippers are far faster than the scale, however I also double check the first several loads and every 5oth or so with a digital scale to be sure. Many rounds or .303, .308, and 9MAK loaded without any signs of overpressure.
Load safe and have fun!
 
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Myth 14: A careful handloader can usually produce ammo that shoots with more precision (smaller groups) than factory ammo.

This is another tricky one. The word "usually" is the kicker, and it also depends on the particular rifle or handgun you are loading for.

Thirty to forty years ago it was pretty common for handloaders who worked carefully to produce ammo which yielded smaller groups for most firearms used for hunting, varmint hunting, plinking, and self defense than the available factory ammo. This often occurred with match ammunition used for target competition as well.

In the 21st century, it has become much more common for factory ammo to shoot with equal (or more )precision than the ammo which most hand loaders produce for use in their hunting, plinking, and defense firearms. I can't speak about current commercially produced match ammo, because it has been decades since I have fired a commercially produced match center fire cartridge.
Click to expand...

You won't see much, if any, factory ammo shooting benchrest. Doubtful you'd see any in f-class, and rarely for highpower shoots.

Factory ammo has the burden of not being tailored to the gun. The fact that factory (rifle for example) chambers have slop in the tolerances, for function, and there is a range of tolerances for critical dimensions (headspace, for example, as evidenced by the need for GO and NO-GO gauges..), a rifle is LESS likely to perform well using Factory Ammo. Headspace, (probably also impacting concentricity), will never be ideal using a cartridge built by the factory for 'all guns'. This is just one aspect.

It's not a myth. Handloaders tune loads to specific rifles. Factories can't do this.
 
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Myth #16

Rifle cases - neck sizing only produces superior ammunition (velocity SD, accuracy and precision) compared to full-length sizing.

I'm curious about this one.
 
Myth #16

Rifle cases - neck sizing only produces superior ammunition (velocity SD, accuracy and precision) compared to full-length sizing.

I'm curious about this one.
Click to expand...

Well it is what is common in the bench rest fellowship and they do load fairly accurate ammo, I think.
 
As long as
1- it's a bolt action rifle
2- the case is ONLY used in THAT rifle

by neck sizing, you are leaving your brass 'Fireformed'
which means that it EXACTLY fits the chamber.
and it doesn't work the full case, making it less likely to split from work hardening and cause less 'brass migration'

or at least from what I have read.
 
OK, we are adding myths faster than we can bust/confirm them. :D

MYTH #1A - Shooting residue in barrel will wear steel barrels - CONFIRMED: Shooting residue (carbon, ash, grit, etc.) may get harder than regular steel barrel surface and scratch/wear if left in the barrel.
MYTH #1B - Shooting residue in barrel may wear surface hardened barrels (Glock Tennifer/M&P Melonite).
MYTH #2 - When scrubbing leading out of barrels, you should only use copper scrubbing pad material, not copper plated steel/stainless steel.
MYTH #3 - WD40 will remove bluing on metal - BUSTED: Per WD-40 company.
MYTH #4 - Glock/M&P barrels are coated with Tennifer/Melonite - BUSTED: They are surface hardening treatments not finish coating.
MYTH #5 - 5.56 Military brass has less case capacity than Commercial 223 brass.
MYTH #6 - Reduced OAL on bottle neck rifle rounds will increase pressure.
MYTH #7 - The people who reply to your post really care about your problem, issue, opinion.
MYTH #8 - To achieve top velocity you use a faster burning propellant for short barrels and slower for long
MYTH #9 - Using Lee Powder Dippers results is inaccurate and dangerous ammo.
MYTH #10 - WD 40 is a great cleaner
MYTH #11 - Crimped ammunition is more consistent (started by a certain die manufacturer)
MYTH #12 - If you store smokeless powder (15lb. or less) in approved containers in your garage or in a closet, it is likely to explode if the garage or house catches on fire - BUSTED (Anyone in disagreement?)
MYTH #13 - A hand loader should never use a powder charge greater than the maximum shown in the reloading manual or in the reloading data produced by the powder manufacturer - CONFIRMED per THR principles?
MYTH #14 - A careful handloader can usually produce ammo that shoots with more precision (smaller groups) than factory ammo.
<I anticipate a heated discussion on this one - Ding, ding, ding! :D>
MYTH #15 - Some ranchers, traditional healers, and alternative medicine healers use WD40 to relieve joint pain and stiffness by spraying it directly on their knees, elbows, shoulders, wrists, or other joints. Sometimes they use it on an animal's joints as well.
<Can we stick to reloader/shooters' joints? :D>

For myth #16, how about if we qualify as,
MYTH #16 - For reloads shot in the same bolt rifle, neck sizing only, produces superior ammunition (velocity SD, accuracy and precision) compared to full-length sizing.
 
MYTH #16 - For reloads shot in the same bolt rifle, neck sizing only, produces superior ammunition (velocity SD, accuracy and precision) compared to full-length sizing - CONFIRMED <I think this by unanimous decision>

That was easy. :D
 
MYTH #16 - For reloads shot in the same bolt rifle, neck sizing only, produces superior ammunition (velocity SD, accuracy and precision) compared to full-length sizing - CONFIRMED <I think this by unanimous decision>

That was easy.
Click to expand...

Uhh, not so easy. Personally, I would want to see a study involving several rifles with numerous loads.

Don
 
So get out your benchrest rifles and go to the range and have a go at it. Let us know how it turns out!
Click to expand...

Hey, I didn't make the statement that "neck sizing only, produces superior ammunition". So, the onus is on those that believe this is a fact, to prove it.

Don
 
Hey, I didn't make the statement that "neck sizing only, produces superior ammunition". So, the onus is on those that believe this is a fact, to prove it.

Don
Click to expand...

Already have proven it to myself. Not going to take the time nor spend the funds to prove it to others, the fact it is extremely common with the benchrest fraternity sorta speaks for itself.

The fact you wish proof is fine with me, do it as I have done, if your findings are different, well thats fine also.
 
The fact you wish proof is fine with me, do it as I have done, if your findings are different, well thats fine also.
Click to expand...

Started out using my Redding Competition necksizing die for all my loads. Whenever necksizing alone, eventually you will have to FL size to bump the shoulder back. For this, I use the Redding body die. Have never found any great difference between the two methods in regards to LR accuracy, so for the sake of consistancy, I necksize and bump the shoulder back (essentially FL sizing) each and every time. So, again, if this is indeed a "fact", someone show me a definitive study proving this as such. I'm not saying it hasn't proved to be true for some people in some cases, I'm just saying if it's a fact, it will prove to be overwhelmingly true in most cases.

Don
 
Myth #16 - Definitely not unanimous. I have some rifles that shoot better when using neck-sized brass. Others that shoot better with full-length sized brass.

This is one of those YMMV 'myths'.
 
WD-40 itself will not harm bluing but it is not a good rust preventative.
Click to expand...

Myth, but I know a PICANTE SALSA that will strip blue like it was designed for the purpose. It took a glob of blue right off an old Detective Special I had. Teach me for eating chips over my holster.
 
Myth 14: There is some incredibly accurate and consistent factory ammo out there. Stuff that comes to mind: Norma and Lapua ammo in 6mm BR, the GP-11 in 7.5x55, the GP 90 .223 which are difficult to beat hand loading. But these are far and few inbetween.
 
jcwit, the reason why I posted #16 is that it's NOT a simple answer as USSR and kelbro have indicated. Consider that in 2009, Ken Brucklacher set a 1000 yard 10-shot world benchrest record at 3.173" with new brass with no prep work. Many reloaders and shooters do things because everyone else does and don't think about why they should do it ... that's what a myth is ... blind belief without proof. Also, you'll probably find that many, if not most, bench rest shooters have "match grade" chambers that are concentric to the bore ... this isn't always the case with factory rifles. Personally, I've moved away from neck sizing only to using the same process as USSR i.e. neck size followed by shoulder bump with a body die. The results with my F-Class rifle have been very encouraging, but just as your experience isn't universal, neither is mine.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/05/ken-brucklacher-sets-1000-yard-score-record-100-8x/
 
On the neck sizing vs partial sizing vs full-length resizing argument...I've seen it go both ways.

I have a heavy barrel Winchester 70 that shoots frighteningly small groups from virgin brass, run through a sizer and trimmed to length. Bumping the shoulder on fired brass opens the groups up a little. Neck-sized brass throws wild flyers. Groups are still small, but the top accuracy comes from virgin brass.

I've got a Ruger 77 in the same caliber that won't reliably shoot 2 minutes unless the brass is neck-sized only. Another identical Ruger prefers a bit of shoulder setback...just enough to let it chamber with light resistance. Both rifles are Minute of Whitetail accurate out to 300 yards with good factory ammo.

Go figger. Dang rifles can be more confusin' than women.
 
steve4102 said:
The graph shows that a bullet with .164 jump has less pressure than a bullet with .059 jump etc. Shorter OAL less pressure.
Click to expand...

It's also a sampling of one. The 0.039" jump also has lower pressure than the 0.059" jump, what does it mean? Nothing. And 1000psi is hardly what I would call a pressure increase... even if the measurement is repeatable to anything less than 500psi - in which case, statistically, they are identical measuments.

Find a reloading manual that doesn't caution against reducing listed OAL. Coming on here and saying short OAL doesn't increase pressure is not in the best interest of safety.

Also 0.164" off the lands is not what is meant when people say "short OAL causes an increase in pressure". Heck, I have a .308 rifle that i have to load 0.120" longer than standard OAL before I can even touch the lands. 0.150" or even 0.200" is nothing abnormal and using an "off the lands" measurement is a red herring.

Forget the "off the lands measurements", put that bullet 0.200" or 0.300" shorter than listed OAL for a safe max load, make some measurements, and then we'll talk.

To me that chart is an argument for not jamming your bullets into the rifling (which some people tend to do in the pursuit of accuracy) and nothing more.
 
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