rem 700 rifle barrels, how different?

[kb58]

First post, be gentle.

Like I always do, when I decide to buy something expensive I obsess and over-research the heck out of it. Long story short, I've settled on getting a Remington 700-series... something. The driving goal is to find the most accurate production barrel of the 700s.

After tons of reading, the only indication that the barrels are any different (i.e. made on different machines) is anecdotal posts of how the Police/military barrels are made on different machines, and/or they're more highly inspected. The implication is that the Police/LTR rifle barrels are the most accurate, but like everything on the Interwebz, it's hard to know what's real.

The post that I keep coming back to is one that I read here, how in the author's opinion, buying a commercial Rem rifle will get you a super accurate one (due to production tolerances) about one time in 10. He then added that when buying a Police/LTR rifle, it's just the opposite, that you'll get a super accurate one about 9 times out of 10 due to tighter tolerances....

So, is that really true? I do see a lot of Remington 700 variations up for sale, many of them with less than 100 rounds through them. It makes me wonder if people are buying three rifles, testing them, then selling the "rejects." OTOH I don't see too many Police/LTR rifles for sale. Coincidence? I don't know, but it does make me wary of buying a used 700...

Out of all the 700s, I really like the feature set of the XCR Compact Tactical because: It's not black, has a stainless barrel, a good stock, and a great trigger right out of the box. OTOH, "if" the XCR barrel has this wide accuracy variation, I don't care how pretty it is. If the LTR is know to be consistantly more accurate in comparison, I'll go that route and swap part out.

So I guess I'm hoping that someone has factual info (or experience with handling a lot of 700-series rifles) on whether the LTR barrels really are consistantly more accurate in comparison.

Sorry for all the blathering, but it gets frustrating reading how person X gets a great-accuracy rifle, person Y gets a poor one (of the same model), person Z gets a so-so accurate one, and so on. Then of course there's human nature, how people complain much faster than posting happy thoughts, there's ammunition variations, wind, range, "fish stories" and so on, but if even one person knows, that's all it would take to clear this up! Help me out and I'll be joining the Rem 700 team soon!

 

[jogar80]

Well I havent shot A LOT of 700's... but I do own a 700P in .308, (2) 700 ADL's in 30.06 and .270, and have shot a friends 30.06 700 sendero. ALL of them are extremely accurate. I have to say, my 700P is the one I am most accurate with, it is RIDICULOUSLY accurate. Of course the difference is probably that I always shoot prone with that one, and with a bipod helping me out. Bottom line is, neither I nor anyone I know has ever encountered a model 700 that was not accurate. However, I'm sure they do make some more accurate than others, and I don't know what the differences may actually be. Remingtons own website says the Sendero is their most accurate production rifle. Everyone I know that owns one (about 6 people) seem to agree with remingtons statement.

 

[birdshot8's]

I have always been told the difference in production rifle barrels is the sharpness of the cutter used in the rifling process. ie. the first barrel on a cutter will have a better barrel than the last barrel cut.
I purchased one of the first Remington Police guns in 223. I did not think the rifle shot as well as I had expected it to shoot and later traded it for a BDL varmint barrel, in 222 that was really a shooter. I still have the BDL.

 

[essayons21]

Remington produces darn good barrels considering the quantity they produce. Buy the gun you want, shoot it. If its accuracy is not what you want (unlikely) or you shoot out the barrel, or you still want even more precision, get an aftermarket barrel made by Lilja, Shilen, Brux, or others and have a competent smith install it. Its not that expensive and you will end up with a rifle more accurate than you can expect from a factory.

 

[jogar80]

As far as why you don't see more Polics/LTR models on the used market... probably because nowhere near as many are sold as the other models.

I say just get whichever 700 convinces you most, and if it has a black stock, you can always paint it.

Do it....

DooOOooo iiIIiittt.....

 

[CoRoMo]

What role would this 700 be for?

How accurate do you need it to be (vs. want it to be), and why?

 

[kb58]

As far as why you don't see more Polics/LTR models on the used market... probably because nowhere near as many are sold as the other models.

Could be, but it's odd how many super low round-count 700s come up for sale. I hardly ever see low round-count LTRs come up, that's all.

Thanks for the posts so far. I realize that "accurate" means very different things to different people. I'm referring to it as in how different 700-model rifles vary in accuracy, and if some are consistently better, rather than an absolute number... Well, okay, 1/2 MOA would leave me smiling, regardless of model

And yes I realize that at some point I need to stop typing and just buy one. The goal right now is to minimize the amount of stuff I end up replacing later. I realize that barrels are easy to upgrade, but not cheap. Just trying to put my best foot forward.

 

[jogar80]

... Well, okay, 1/2 MOA would leave me smiling,

The 30.06 is a recent acquisition, bought it from a fellow here on THR. Sub moa with factory hunting ammo. Could probably do better than that with the right load.

My 700P.... Easily better than .5 moa (with match ammo)... makes me look (and feel!) like a Champion shooter.

I'll never take that 700P hunting though, way too heavy and bulky. Although, if it was the only rifle I had, it could do the job for sure.

 

[Lazerbeans]

My ADL in .30-06 I got from Dick’s in Feb. for just under $500 will shoot cloverleaf’s at 100yrds all day long with reloads. My reloads are Hornady SST 180’s on top of 45.5 grains of IMR 4064, COL of 3.353. If my bottom rung Remington can shoot cloverleaf’s, then I have no doubt the more expensive ones will in high percentages.

 

[30Cal]

If it mattered that much to me (i.e. if you think you're rolling the dice and probably won't get what you want), I'd find myself something cheap and used and then have my smith build it to suit my whim with a new top-tier match barrel.

 

[JDGray]

My LTR .223 will outshoot any of my rifles, including a R700 VS 22-250, Savage 10FP 308 with a Shilen barrel. That, or I always shoot it on "one of those days"

 

[Mr.Blue]

As written above, Remington states on their website that the 700 Sendero is the most accurate rifle that they sell over the counter. I have a few 700's and all are accurate, but my 300 Win Mag Sendero is special.

http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sendero-sf-ii.aspx

 

[kb58]

...My ADL in .30-06 I got from Dick’s in Feb. for just under $500 will shoot cloverleaf’s at 100yrds all day long with reloads...

I don't debate this at all. My issue is, if 10 random ADLs were taken to the range on the same day, with the same ammo, with the same shooter, how many would replicate that accuracy? I don't know, but I get the impression that there's a fair scatter. Or I could be completely wrong.

 

[kb58]

As written above, Remington states on their website that the 700 Sendero is the most accurate rifle that they sell over the counter. I have a few 700's and all are accurate, but my 300 Win Mag Sendero is special.

Of course it says that... I never trust what any organization says when they want my money. Could what they're saying be true? Sure, but would it then be logical that their competition would agree with them? Of course not, for the very same reason. Money completely taints getting to the facts.

 

[Rob96]

I have the 700 ADL Varmint in 308 that I bought at Dick's. It is the same barreled action as the 700P except with a different finish. I recently had it cut down to 20". With my handloads in the factory stock it shoots .55moa.

 

[Mr.Blue]

Quote:
As written above, Remington states on their website that the 700 Sendero is the most accurate rifle that they sell over the counter. I have a few 700's and all are accurate, but my 300 Win Mag Sendero is special.
Of course it says that... I never trust what any organization says when they want my money. Could what they're saying be true? Sure, but would it then be logical that their competition would agree with them? Of course not, for the very same reason. Money completely taints getting to the facts.

Ok, guy. Thanks for enlightening me.

Your logic is flawed. Remington doesn't state that their Sendero is more accurate than other company's offerings. They state that it is THEIR most accurate rifle. Other than a possible slight increase in profit margin from one Remington rifle model to another, the company should be indifferent to what rifle you buy as long as it is a Remington.

Buy what you want to buy. You will probably never buy anything as you become paralyzed by over-analysis.

 

[quartermaster]

rem 700

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Remington. I have 14 of them including,
Model 7s, Mountain rifles, SPSs, BDLs, ADLs, Buckmasters and Boone and Crocket models.

If you are looking for consistant 1/2 MOA, I would say you will be dissapointed and never find that accuracy out of any factory rifle. I have shot may groups the were well under 1/2" with my 700's, but doing it all the time is too much to ask for. I would add that 3/4" groups are more the norm with the right bullets and carefully loaded concentric handloads which have been worked up trying many different combinations, before landing the best COAL, powder and primer combo. The other factor that I find is that some of my guns need a very clean barrel with one or two fouls shots, and some of them after being meticuously cleaned will need 8-12 foul shots to get the best accuracy. I keep very detailed records for all my shooting experiences and after putting all that info together, I know what has to be done for each individual gun.

I also own a few Savages, Rugers, Brownings, and a Tikka. I believe that if I wanted to buy a gun other than a Remington, I would get another Browning. I have 2 A Bolts, both of which are extremely accurate. My only gripe about them is that they have detachable magazines, which I always feel inhibits my ability to reload for them, as the max cartridge length is limited by what will fit into the magazine.

That's my 2 cents. As mentioned previously, You could always buy one and have a custom gun made for your desired accuracy. The 700 action is a good place to start if you decide to go that route.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

 

[V1ROT8]

Keep analyzing and you will probably not buy anything. Find a good price, buy and then enjoy your purchase. All of my Remington rifles are more accurate than me, the shooter.

 

[kb58]

To everyone who offered constructive input, thank you. And to the keyboard psychoanalysts, don't give up your day jobs, as I've chosen the 700P LTR. Thanks again.

 

[Mr.Blue]

To everyone who offered constructive input, thank you. And to the keyboard psychoanalysts, don't give up your day jobs, as I've chosen the 700P LTR. Thanks again.

I offered constructive input, but you acted like you were omniscient and I was an ignoramus. I have four 700's including a Sendero and was speaking from experience.

Enjoy your rifle.

 

[barnbwt]

I have always been told the difference in production rifle barrels is the sharpness of the cutter used in the rifling process. ie. the first barrel on a cutter will have a better barrel than the last barrel cut.

Ah, I always wondered how the manufacturers determined quality grades on these barrels without dozens of test fires to actually determine their accuracy potential. I never thought that checking the bore diameters with a go-nogo gauge would be a good enough indicator of accuracy (more a guarantee of safe construction). Next time I buy a rifle I'll need to remember to get a friend on the inside to figure out when they change out the rifling buttons...

 

[kb58]

I offered constructive input, but you acted like you were omniscient and I was an ignoramus.

Constructive input would include such points as mentioning that new LTRs come with Remington's best trigger, the 40-X.

Non-constructive input would be to then add something like "but you probably wouldn't like it anyway," which adds nothing other than rudeness. Given the choice I always prefer the former, but sometimes one comes with the other. But thanks for the input, and the rifle has been ordered.

 

[41 Mag]

I realize that you have ordered the rifle you wanted, but thought I would toss this out anyway.

Most of my rifles are or have Remington in them. I have never specifically gone into too much thought on which one would be the most accurate as I shoot handloaded ammo so I can tailor the loads to what the rifles want. With fit, I can work around most issues. The triggers I have, are for the most part all stock which I have adjusted to suit my needs or wants for the individual rifle, the customs are Jewell.

As for a particular barrel being more accurate than the next, in simply looking at 5, 25, or even 50 sitting on a shelf you would never be able to tell with out putting an extensive amount of rounds through them all in various bullet weights and loads.

All this said, in today's competitive world, most if not all of the factory rifles shoot outstanding compared to 25 years ago. I have put enough rounds through all of my Rem's to know that the barrels are only part of the equation, and that it only takes a few in/lbs of torque on an action screw to go from shooting bug holes to patterns on the target.

If when you get your rifle and have tried various loads, and IF the accuracy isn't where you expect it to be, the good thing is there are plenty of experienced folks who can help you get it there. Mine aren't meant for shooting competition, but they all have shot these type good groups enough for me to know when they don't it isn't the rifles.

 

[JDGray]

Constructive input would include such points as mentioning that new LTRs come with Remington's best trigger, the 40-X.

Mine came with a Rifle Basixs trigger!! It was new unfired from a second party, so I doubt he installed it, and didn't add $140 to the asking price. I have seen the same question asked on different forums about having Rifle Basixs triggers on new R700s, that people just bought at a gun shop, so I believe it was factory installed. Anyways, enjoy your new rifle

 

[jmr40]

...My ADL in .30-06 I got from Dick’s in Feb. for just under $500 will shoot cloverleaf’s at 100yrds all day long with reloads...

I don't debate this at all. My issue is, if 10 random ADLs were taken to the range on the same day, with the same ammo, with the same shooter, how many would replicate that accuracy? I don't know, but I get the impression that there's a fair scatter. Or I could be completely wrong.

I've owned or shot several dozen different rifles in my lifetime. If I were to randomly pick 10 rifles from each of the various manufacturers and shoot them out of the box with no modifications, I'd bet the average group size of the Remingtons would be the smallest.

That said Remingtons are not my favorite rifles. I like the features of other brands better, but day in and day out they do tend to produce the most accurate rifles on the market in my experience. You will often find individual rifles from other brands that will outshoot an individual Remington. But if an accurate rifle was my goal and I had to randomly pick something off the shelf, one of the Remingtons is what I'd reach for.