I really do not know why, but i have had a desire to purchase and shoot a cap and ball revolver. of them, the 1858 Remington looks the most appealing. the nagging question that is stopping me is how dirty BP and or the substitutes are. from some of the you tube videos i have seen, it appears that after several (between 4 and 8) loadings, the pistol stops revolving due to crud. i typically shoot out in the woods, into a natural hill side. and carrying soap, water, and tools to clean the gun half way thru a shooting session would be very impractical. is this factual? is there a BP substitute that will burn clean enough that i could shoot 50-80, or maybe even 100 balls thru the gun without it locking up?
Remington 1858 questions
- Thread starter x_wrench
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MrAcheson
Member
Yes, the gun will foul up after a few cylinders. Just carry some baby wipes with you in your BP bag. When the cylinder starts to drag, pull it, wipe the face down with a babywipe, wipe the forcing cone too, reassemble. Adds half a minute to that reload, but not that much. You'll be spending way more time reloading each cylinder. The rest of the gun can wait until you get home.
Honestly, if you're going to shoot a serious amount of BP, you're going to have a BP bag to carry everything. You'll need powder, lube, caps, and balls no matter what. You'll want a nipple wrench and maybe a screwdriver just in case. Add some wipes so you can clean the gun and your hands after you finish shooting. When you get home you'll have to do a more detailed cleaning on the gun with soap and water.
I mostly shoot Triple 7 and while it is stil dirty, the fouling doesn't seem especially corrosive. I've heard good black powder is similar although it fouls more. I believe pyrodex is really corrosive.
Honestly, if you're going to shoot a serious amount of BP, you're going to have a BP bag to carry everything. You'll need powder, lube, caps, and balls no matter what. You'll want a nipple wrench and maybe a screwdriver just in case. Add some wipes so you can clean the gun and your hands after you finish shooting. When you get home you'll have to do a more detailed cleaning on the gun with soap and water.
I mostly shoot Triple 7 and while it is stil dirty, the fouling doesn't seem especially corrosive. I've heard good black powder is similar although it fouls more. I believe pyrodex is really corrosive.
Armored farmer
Member
^^^^all true.
I prefer real black in all my bp guns.
Remington cylinder pins are especially vulnerable to fouling, yet i like my Remington over the Colt.
....some will claim blasphemy.
Regardless of which you choose, cap n ball revolver shooting is great fun. I enjoy it very much.
I spray Ballistol oil on the cylinder pin and it keeps my Remington shooting all day. I do wipe the cylinder down every once in a while too, but it’s not because of an issue. I just like to keep it in check I suppose.
Triple 7 is a nice powder if fouling is an issue to you, and even more so if you desire or require reasonable energy for hunting. I read Black MZ is likely the least fouling of the powders useful, but is rather weak like much of the other powders.
Triple 7 is a nice powder if fouling is an issue to you, and even more so if you desire or require reasonable energy for hunting. I read Black MZ is likely the least fouling of the powders useful, but is rather weak like much of the other powders.
Loyalist Dave
Member
Yes, and sometimes a toothbrush doesn't hurt, but really the bably wipes will do fine. 100 rounds of .451 round ball is like two pounds of lead, and a little less than a third of a can of powder. That's a lot of lead down range from a '58 Remington.
LD
You're not shooting a modern gun, so you may want to think the 100 or so shots in the woods in one day. It takes a little while to load it up each time unless you learn to make paper cartridges. Is BP dirty - do bears poop in the woods ? Yea, it's dirty and you should clean the gun completely after shooting. I take it completely apart after shooting, but I know many guys who don't take out the hammer and trigger. It's up to you, but after shooting paper targets for 15 years I've found the innards quite dirty after a day of shooting and wouldn't dream of putting it away without a complete disassembly. The Ballistol oil on the anchor pin works good. If you're still interested, I have a brass frame Remington with a 12" barrel and rear target sight that's never been fired for $200. New they're about 270. Let me know at [email protected]
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mh2000
Member
My Remmington goes around 40-50 rounds before it starts binding up. Mostly the cylinder. As MrAcheson suggests, baby wipes and maybe a little grease would get you goiing really fast. Personally, after 40 rounds, I'm pretty much done. BP isn't like shooting 100 rounds through a Glock as fast as you can, it's more a process, IMO.
Well worth it!
Have fun!
Regarding Colt vs Remmington, FWIW, my Remington had zero problems out of the box. The Colt I got has been problems... hope to get it working this week.
Well worth it!
Have fun!
Regarding Colt vs Remmington, FWIW, my Remington had zero problems out of the box. The Colt I got has been problems... hope to get it working this week.
arcticap
Member
American Pioneer Powder 3F is one of easiest powders to clean.
The more powder one loads, the quicker the cylinder pin will start to stick.
After 3-4-5 cylinders are fired, just wipe and lube the pin using a cotton swab and put some lube inside the cylinder hole.
A good grease may last longer.
I load & fire 3 cylinders in a row by loading off the frame using a loading press, so the cylinder gets changed for each reload anyway.
Being able to easily swap out cylinders for a quick reload is one of the desirable features about the Remington.
It's the same if you decided to buy the affordable cartridge conversion cylinder, it comes off the gun to reload the rounds.
So putting some lube on the pin requires very little extra effort.
APP, 777 and Black MZ aren't corrosive, but the residue can easily absorb moisture which can cause rust.
If the gun and residue is liberally coated with mineral oil or Ballistol, then that buys extra time until the gun needs to be cleaned by washing it.
Only the nipples and grips really need to be removed to wash the gun within a reasonable time after the shooting session.
Lube the gun and nipple threads, replace the grips and it's ready for the next shooting session.
The more powder one loads, the quicker the cylinder pin will start to stick.
After 3-4-5 cylinders are fired, just wipe and lube the pin using a cotton swab and put some lube inside the cylinder hole.
A good grease may last longer.
I load & fire 3 cylinders in a row by loading off the frame using a loading press, so the cylinder gets changed for each reload anyway.
Being able to easily swap out cylinders for a quick reload is one of the desirable features about the Remington.
It's the same if you decided to buy the affordable cartridge conversion cylinder, it comes off the gun to reload the rounds.
So putting some lube on the pin requires very little extra effort.
APP, 777 and Black MZ aren't corrosive, but the residue can easily absorb moisture which can cause rust.
If the gun and residue is liberally coated with mineral oil or Ballistol, then that buys extra time until the gun needs to be cleaned by washing it.
Only the nipples and grips really need to be removed to wash the gun within a reasonable time after the shooting session.
Lube the gun and nipple threads, replace the grips and it's ready for the next shooting session.
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John Joseph
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Just get that cap and ball hogleg and go out and have fun.
You ain't gettin' any younger!
You ain't gettin' any younger!
Jackrabbit1957
Member
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Personal experience with Black MZ is it shoots clean but is not as energetic as other substitutes. The container says don't use lube with it. I guess it turns the residue into tar. So far I have shot about a third of a pound of the stuff. It's easy to clean and fouling is pretty minimal. Pyrodex fouls quite a bit with 777 following behind. The 777 leaves a light gray fouling that accumulates and can make reloading a bear. My thoughts are if you're gonna shoot a lot of targets the black mz might be a good choice just because of less fouling. And it smells better than black powder or Pyrodex.
THANKS for all the information! my brother made a suggestion, that i had really not thought about. he suggested getting a black powder cartridge gun, rather than a muzzle loader. i can see his point about it being WAY quicker to reload. i do not know if one of those would have the same fouling issues or not. i had thought about taking a few brass brushes with me, one for the bore, and one to scrub anywhere else that may get gunked up. my thought was unless the actual action gets fouled so bad it would not work, the brushes should keep it operating. i also thought when i got home, about removing the grips, and setting the gun in a bucket of hot soapy water to soak while i got the truck unloaded and stuff put away. then go about cleaning the gun. i have a BP rifle, so the process is not foreign to me.
Get a couple revolvers, they are a ton of fun. I prefer Colt open top C&B revolvers. Put a dab of Bore Butter on the arbor (aka cylinder pin) and they will run all week without cleaning. Remingtons are fun too. As a rule you can't just own 1 or 1 style of C&B revolvers.
BSA1
member
Repeat after me...Ballistol.
Don't not use petroleum oils and grease on your gun. Ballistol is all you need. You can use it in two different ways.
The first is as a aerosol. I like the aerosol can as it is very convenient to throw in the range and possibles bag. Just spray it in the action and on the cylinder base pin as needed.
The other method is to buy it as a non-aerosol and mix it with water to make moose milk. No set formula. 10% Ballistol and 90% water is typical. Put it in a spray bottle and squirt it on. The water will evaporate leaving a oily film.
There is no need for soaking your gun in water or breaking it down. I had a lever action rifle that I shot a lot of black powder in. I cleaned and kept it oiled with Ballistol. After 5,000 rounds I detailed stripped it. There was no rust and the gunk that was in it was soft and oily.
Many shooters do not understand blackpowder and overclean their guns.
Don't not use petroleum oils and grease on your gun. Ballistol is all you need. You can use it in two different ways.
The first is as a aerosol. I like the aerosol can as it is very convenient to throw in the range and possibles bag. Just spray it in the action and on the cylinder base pin as needed.
The other method is to buy it as a non-aerosol and mix it with water to make moose milk. No set formula. 10% Ballistol and 90% water is typical. Put it in a spray bottle and squirt it on. The water will evaporate leaving a oily film.
There is no need for soaking your gun in water or breaking it down. I had a lever action rifle that I shot a lot of black powder in. I cleaned and kept it oiled with Ballistol. After 5,000 rounds I detailed stripped it. There was no rust and the gunk that was in it was soft and oily.
Many shooters do not understand blackpowder and overclean their guns.
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
There are some who dislike the smell of Black Powder, but then again...
There are plenty of folks who think that black powder smoke is just about the best smell there is.
I'm one of them. It may have a lot to do with associating the smell with all the fun and good times that came with it, but I definitely enjoy the smell. Some time it even gives me goosebumps.
AlexanderA
Member
The 1858 NMA reproductions are ideal for use with conversion cylinders and smokeless .45LC "cowboy" cartridge loads. That way you have the feel of a C&B revolver but avoid the issue of black powder fouling altogether.
Jackrabbit1957
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I really don't mind the smell of black powder, just made note that some folks don't care for the smell of it. My stepfather is one of them, I thoroughly polluted him years ago with smoke from a muzzleloader 12 gauge. He hasn't wanted anything to do with it since.
Dframe
Member
As someone earlier said. Just carry a few packets of "Baby Wipes" in your kit. They'll wipe away any crud so you can continue shooting. They WON'T protect anything from rust, so you'll still need to thoroughly clean when you get home.
I would first advise you to get a steel frame (trust me on this.) as brass does not fare well with a steady diet of stronger loads. Black MZ is only available in 2F equivalent. I have never used it but heard its very clean much much cleaner than the others except blackhorn 209 which does not work good in percussion arms.
Pyrodex is dirty corrosive and nasty sorry that is my opinion but it works well, 777 is cleaner and more powerful like 15% more than standard run of the mill black powder but 777 can also leave some pretty hard ring like residue if you neglect to thoroughly clean. Pyrodex pistol pellets are to be used with caution since it's some hot funky rocket fuel that can make dangerous pressure spikes if the pellet is broken in pieces by accident when loading. The pellet must be wholly intact.
Unless it's made of a modern smokeless powder rated steel that can handle full power smokeless loads right from the factory, I don't like conversions especially the cylinders. I don't see the point of a makeshift hard to load revolver that you have to be careful to slide only low power "cowboy loads" into. I think the better option is to buy a smokeless powder rated single action cartridge revolver from the factory it you want cartridges. I would at least have a good backup cartridge gun (.44 magnum ? and/or rifle ? with bear spray ?) if I were going to spend considerable time in the woods.
Open tops revolvers (colt type) are often cap jam nightmares out of the box and usually need work. The Remington is pretty idiot proof and these days Remington replicas are very well made.
Pyrodex is dirty corrosive and nasty sorry that is my opinion but it works well, 777 is cleaner and more powerful like 15% more than standard run of the mill black powder but 777 can also leave some pretty hard ring like residue if you neglect to thoroughly clean. Pyrodex pistol pellets are to be used with caution since it's some hot funky rocket fuel that can make dangerous pressure spikes if the pellet is broken in pieces by accident when loading. The pellet must be wholly intact.
Unless it's made of a modern smokeless powder rated steel that can handle full power smokeless loads right from the factory, I don't like conversions especially the cylinders. I don't see the point of a makeshift hard to load revolver that you have to be careful to slide only low power "cowboy loads" into. I think the better option is to buy a smokeless powder rated single action cartridge revolver from the factory it you want cartridges. I would at least have a good backup cartridge gun (.44 magnum ? and/or rifle ? with bear spray ?) if I were going to spend considerable time in the woods.
Open tops revolvers (colt type) are often cap jam nightmares out of the box and usually need work. The Remington is pretty idiot proof and these days Remington replicas are very well made.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
A few things about the Remington 1858 New Model Army and its replicas.
This is my old EuroArms Remmie I bought brand spanky new in 1975. It is actually fitted with a cartridge conversion cylinder in this photo, but I will get into that later.
The 1858 Remington had a design defect. The cylinder was (is) flat across the front. At left is a cartridge conversion cylinder, at the right is the original Cap & Ball cylinder.
What this means is that Black Powder fouling that gets blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap gets deposited directly onto the cylinder pin.
Because the cylinder pin is so thin, only about 1/4" in diameter, fouling deposited on the pin builds up rapidly, and as it works its way between the pin and the cylinder the fouling causes the cylinder to bind.
In this photo you can see how thin the Remington cylinder pin is. Also in this photo is a replica of the 1860 Colt Army. Notice it too has a flat cylinder face, so again there is nothing preventing fouling from building up on the cylinder arbor. But notice how much larger in diameter the Colt arbor is than the Remington pin. This means that for every shot fired out of the Colt, there is more surface area for the fouling to be distributed over. Notice too the helical groove running around the Colt arbor. The groove provides clearance for fouling to build up in, so the Colt can be fired for more shots than the Remington without binding.
Now let's look at how Colt solved this problem with the 1873 Single Action Army. Left to right, the three cylinders in this photo are from an Uberti Cattleman, a modern Ruger Vaquero, and a 2nd Generation Colt SAA. Notice the fronts of the cylinders are not flat. They each have a bushing on them. The bushings on the Uberti and the Colt are removable, the bushing on the Ruger is not, but that does not matter. The point is, each has a bushing that extends out in front of the cylinder face.
Here is a close up of the cylinder barrel gap on a Colt. Notice the barrel extends back to within a few thousandths of an inch of the front face of the cylinder. But the front end of the cylinder bushing is projecting out past the barrel/cylinder gap.
You can see it even more plainly on this Stainless Ruger Vaquero. When Black Powder fouling is blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap, the horizontal separation between the gap and the front of the bushing prevents fouling from being blasted onto the cylinder pin. The bushing shields it.
I shoot Black Powder in cartridges in my Colts at Cowboy Action matches all the time. I can shoot six stages of a match, 30 rounds through each revolver, without giving my revolvers any attention at all. They just keep on shooting without binding. In fact, I can easily fire 50 Black Powder rounds, probably more, through my Colts without any binding at all.
In contrast, when shooting Black Powder cartridges in the conversion cylinders of my Remingtons, I have to pop out the cylinder after every five rounds to wipe fouling off the front of the cylinder and the cylinder pin, or they will begin to bind up. In truth, this is not a problem with the Remingtons because their design makes it very simple to pop out the cylinder for cleaning. With Colt type Cap & Ball replicas, you have to drive out the wedge and pull the barrel to clean the cylinder. Much easier with the Remington design.
There is actually a fair amount more detail to loading Black Powder in cartridges, but that is a topic for another post.
If you want a Remmie, go for it. Just be prepared to wipe off the cylinder fairly often.
Regarding cartridge conversion cylinders, they are made of better steel than the typical Cap & Ball cylinder that comes with a Cap & Ball cylinder. They are proofed for Smokeless loads. Of course, you cannot put loads more powerful than SAAMI spec loads in them, but you should not do that in a Colt or Uberti either. Yes, if you want to fire cartridges in a Remington with a cartridge conversion cylinder, you must buy a steel framed revolver, not a brass framed one. The manufacturers of conversion cylinders state this quite plainly.
Regarding real Black Powder vs the substitutes, I must admit that all of my experience is with real Black Powder, not the substitutes. You might be surprised how easy it actually is to clean a revolver that has been fired with Black Powder. It is not as difficult as you may think. Yes, it is messy, but it is not difficult.
And I never completely disassemble my revolvers after firing them with Black Powder. I have treated the insides so all I have to do is clean the bore, chambers, and the outside surfaces. I have developed some techniques that prevent fouling that makes its way down inside from causing corrosion.
If you want a more detailed description of loading Black Powder in cartridges see here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shooting-black-powder-in-cartridge-guns.821193/
That thread is not completed yet, I need to get back to it and finish up BP cleanup, loading BP in shotgun shells, and BP cartridge loading for single shot rifles. But it is a good place to get started.
A few things about the Remington 1858 New Model Army and its replicas.
This is my old EuroArms Remmie I bought brand spanky new in 1975. It is actually fitted with a cartridge conversion cylinder in this photo, but I will get into that later.
The 1858 Remington had a design defect. The cylinder was (is) flat across the front. At left is a cartridge conversion cylinder, at the right is the original Cap & Ball cylinder.
What this means is that Black Powder fouling that gets blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap gets deposited directly onto the cylinder pin.
Because the cylinder pin is so thin, only about 1/4" in diameter, fouling deposited on the pin builds up rapidly, and as it works its way between the pin and the cylinder the fouling causes the cylinder to bind.
In this photo you can see how thin the Remington cylinder pin is. Also in this photo is a replica of the 1860 Colt Army. Notice it too has a flat cylinder face, so again there is nothing preventing fouling from building up on the cylinder arbor. But notice how much larger in diameter the Colt arbor is than the Remington pin. This means that for every shot fired out of the Colt, there is more surface area for the fouling to be distributed over. Notice too the helical groove running around the Colt arbor. The groove provides clearance for fouling to build up in, so the Colt can be fired for more shots than the Remington without binding.
Now let's look at how Colt solved this problem with the 1873 Single Action Army. Left to right, the three cylinders in this photo are from an Uberti Cattleman, a modern Ruger Vaquero, and a 2nd Generation Colt SAA. Notice the fronts of the cylinders are not flat. They each have a bushing on them. The bushings on the Uberti and the Colt are removable, the bushing on the Ruger is not, but that does not matter. The point is, each has a bushing that extends out in front of the cylinder face.
Here is a close up of the cylinder barrel gap on a Colt. Notice the barrel extends back to within a few thousandths of an inch of the front face of the cylinder. But the front end of the cylinder bushing is projecting out past the barrel/cylinder gap.
You can see it even more plainly on this Stainless Ruger Vaquero. When Black Powder fouling is blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap, the horizontal separation between the gap and the front of the bushing prevents fouling from being blasted onto the cylinder pin. The bushing shields it.
I shoot Black Powder in cartridges in my Colts at Cowboy Action matches all the time. I can shoot six stages of a match, 30 rounds through each revolver, without giving my revolvers any attention at all. They just keep on shooting without binding. In fact, I can easily fire 50 Black Powder rounds, probably more, through my Colts without any binding at all.
In contrast, when shooting Black Powder cartridges in the conversion cylinders of my Remingtons, I have to pop out the cylinder after every five rounds to wipe fouling off the front of the cylinder and the cylinder pin, or they will begin to bind up. In truth, this is not a problem with the Remingtons because their design makes it very simple to pop out the cylinder for cleaning. With Colt type Cap & Ball replicas, you have to drive out the wedge and pull the barrel to clean the cylinder. Much easier with the Remington design.
There is actually a fair amount more detail to loading Black Powder in cartridges, but that is a topic for another post.
If you want a Remmie, go for it. Just be prepared to wipe off the cylinder fairly often.
Regarding cartridge conversion cylinders, they are made of better steel than the typical Cap & Ball cylinder that comes with a Cap & Ball cylinder. They are proofed for Smokeless loads. Of course, you cannot put loads more powerful than SAAMI spec loads in them, but you should not do that in a Colt or Uberti either. Yes, if you want to fire cartridges in a Remington with a cartridge conversion cylinder, you must buy a steel framed revolver, not a brass framed one. The manufacturers of conversion cylinders state this quite plainly.
Regarding real Black Powder vs the substitutes, I must admit that all of my experience is with real Black Powder, not the substitutes. You might be surprised how easy it actually is to clean a revolver that has been fired with Black Powder. It is not as difficult as you may think. Yes, it is messy, but it is not difficult.
And I never completely disassemble my revolvers after firing them with Black Powder. I have treated the insides so all I have to do is clean the bore, chambers, and the outside surfaces. I have developed some techniques that prevent fouling that makes its way down inside from causing corrosion.
If you want a more detailed description of loading Black Powder in cartridges see here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shooting-black-powder-in-cartridge-guns.821193/
That thread is not completed yet, I need to get back to it and finish up BP cleanup, loading BP in shotgun shells, and BP cartridge loading for single shot rifles. But it is a good place to get started.
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AlexanderA
Member
I have a Euroarms Remington that I bought in the mid-1980's. It was made by Armi San Pietro. Comparing it side by side with my Uberti Remington, the ASP (although it has very similar overall dimensions) has a subtly more delicate frame. This is especially noticeable around the top strap. Conversion cylinders made for the Uberti will also work in the ASP, with possibly minor adjustments.
Speaking of conversion cylinders, I have 5-shot Howell cylinders for both the Uberti and the ASP. The 5-shot cylinders are stronger than the 6-shot, having a lot more metal around the chambers. In addition, the Howell 5-shots have intermediate locking notches between the chambers, meaning that all 5 chambers can safely be carried loaded. That makes them equivalent to a 6-shot cylinder that must be carried with one chamber empty.
With the conversion cylinder, you have to pop out the cylinder every five shots to reload anyway. Wiping off the fouling is just an extra motion.
mh2000
Member
nice introduction and write up, Driftwood Johnson!
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
My EuroArms Remington was made by Ami San Paolo.
This is the Armi San Paolo trademark, on the bottom of the barrel, under the loading lever, DGG in a circle. D,G,G are the initials of the last names of the founders, Grassi, Doninelli, and Gazzola. Yes, the frame is a bit smaller than an Uberti.
Exactly. My six shot R&D conversion cylinder needs to be popped out of the frame to reload, so I take the opportunity to wipe the front face of the cylinder and cylinder pin with a damp rag at every reload. Very easy to do.
The only other thing I did was have a gunsmith install a new front sight. When these revolvers were imported into the US back in the 1970s they came with very short front sights. That meant it tended to shoot high. Before I invested in the conversion cylinder I had a gunsmith cut a new dovetail and install a taller front sight. This moved the point of impact down so then I went ahead and bought the conversion cylinder. At some point the imports ceased having such a short front sight and they now come with taller ones.
Incidentally, because the frame of my Remmie is so delicate, particularly in the spot where the loading lever pierces the frame, and because the recoil of a full house 45 Colt Black Powder load is unpleasant with the Remington grip shape, I shoot 45 Schofields loaded with Black Powder in it, rather than 45 Colts.
This is my 45 Schofield load, approxcimately 28 grains of Schuetzen FFg under a 200 grain Big Lube J/P 45-200 bullet. I designed this bullet specifically for lighter recoil than the then standard 250 grain Big Lube PRS bullet over approximately 33 grains of Schuetzen FFg in the 45 Colt case.
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Mizar
Member
Ummm, Ballistol IS a petroleum distillate - it's a mineral oil actually. One should really stay away from Naphthenic oils, but Paraffinic oils, such as Ballistol, liquid paraffin, petroleum jelly and etc. are fine to use with black powder.
About the cylinder binding - one should ask his friendly local machinist to put a bushing on the cylinder and clear the frame to accommodate it. It's a relatively easy task and if interest is shown I would be more than happy to explain the process.
AlexanderA
Member
Yes, my mistake. Mine is also Armi San Paolo and not Armi San Pietro. It's easy to get confused with these Italian makers. (I don't think there was ever an "Armi San Pietro.")
I see from the picture of your 6-shot conversion cylinder that the backplate has intermediate safety notches (like a percussion cylinder) so that it could be safely carried with all 6 chambers loaded. My 5-shot Howell cylinder has the safety notches in the form of extra locking notches, in the circumference of the cylinder. These are just two different ways of doing the same thing. The thicker web of metal around the chambers in the 5-shot cylinder is what makes the extra circumferential locking notches possible. You couldn't do that with a 6-shot cylinder, because of the thin web. The extra locking notches would break through into the chambers.
Mizar
Member
Extra safety locking notches on a 6 shot 1858 cylinder will be positioned between the chambers.
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