Remington 700 bashing?

[pdh]

Remingtom 700 bashing?

Picked up on some Rem 700 bashing on another site.One fellow is a Dealer/Gunsmith and said he would not recommend a 700 or any other Remington product.Said quality control went way south.The other guy(do not know if he is in gun business field)said they were just plain junk.

I have 3 700's.Last one was bought about 3 years ago.I have not had any trouble or complaints with any of these 3 rifles what so ever.They shoot and function like a dream.
LOVE EM!!!

Ford and Chevy thing ?????

 

[Art Eatman]

About the closest I'd come to a "bash" is that I think the synthetic stocks on the WallyWorld ADLs are a bit flimsy in the forearm. However, mine, in .308, will easily hold right at one MOA...

Otherwise, they have an excellent reputation for accuracy.

Art

 

[Sir Galahad]

I've heard a lot of QC issues with Remington firearms. It could be something as simple as a vendor change with some of their parts. I've been a warranty repairman for some years now (not firearms; electrical equipment) and, believe me, it only takes changing ONE vendor on ONE part to ruin an entire product. Lots of companies see the saving of one nickle on the product production cost but don't see the spending of $150 later when it comes back to the warranty department. Vendor changes on old products are usually done when they find a cheaper vendor. That's when you start seeing what used to be a great product turn into a so-so product. The company relies on the name to sell the product and newer users not used to the way the old one was might not know the difference. I'm not saying that's what Remington is doing, but there is that possibility.

As I recall, a lot of the red flags on the Rem 700 centered around a defect(?) that caused the rifle to fire when flicked on or off safety. I think Remington recalled rifles that fell under that defect, as I remember. This was all centered around a case where a guy came back from hunting and accidently shot himself to death with a 700 while taking it off or putting on safe. (Yeah, watch your background, watch your sweep, and never rely on a "safety", and never point weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot---but it only takes one incident like that to break a company.) Anyway, the guys mother was suing Remington the last I heard.

I can tell you that quality across the board with LOTS of American products is doing the spiral in the toilet bowl. Some more so than others. There are a few companies who make quality Job One. But, unfortunately, one of the reasons some firearms companies cut corners is because they're having to retain high-priced lawyers to defend themselves against being sued by shooting victims shot by their product. They better realize they can also be sued by making a defective product that injures the user.

 

[Badger Arms]

QC is a relative thing. In terms of mechanical quality, there is NOTHING WRONG with the M700 that is intentional or neglectfull. That one case being the exception, the M700 is reliable and safe. As far as fit and finish, the M700 is going down the same path as the majority of gun companies and other types of companies for that matter. They cut corners to make the products cheaper and increase profits.

We should remember that Savage has always done this and therefore we expect it from them.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I, too, have been noticing some spotty QC on 700s and other Remington firearms over the past couple of years.

Disturbing trend.

Stuff that normally would have not gotten out of the factory but is.

None of the things that I've seen would interfere with the functioning of the rifle, but glaring stock, finish, fit, etc. problems I don't expect to see in a $600 rifle from a major US manufacturer.

 

[762x51]

Same here.....have seen a few finish problems on some more recent rifles but HARDLY junk. What is this guy shooting that says they are junk?

 

[pdh]

762x51,the guy saying that 700's are junk is a Kimber fan.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Hold the phone! I think there was a safety recall on some Kimber rifles. Hmmm......anyone remember hearing that?

 

[BHP9]

I do not think anyone should signal just Remington out. It seems as though all firearms companies today have sunk to an all time low in terms of overall quality control.

I believe most firearms companies actually think the consumer is conditioned to accept junk products and that it is high time the firearms companies jumped on the band wagon too, in regards to making products faster and cheaper with little or no regard to durability or quality.

I think the consumer has come to expect that anything he buys these days will require some fixing or replacing of parts.

In regards to the Remington 700 here are my thoughts:

Most people do like the Remington 700 because of its outstanding accuracy and its affordable price and its factory adjustable trigger.

Having said all the nice things about the M700 , I personnally do not care for the rifle.

I have seen that under heavy use and sometimes even moderate use the Remington is just not to be relied on.

I have personnaly seen 700's under extreme use suffer a high failure rate of

1. Broken extractors,

2. Feeding problems,

3. People hurt when cartridge cases let go and the rifle sprayed hot gas back into their face,

4. Trigger problems, including malfuncitions from accumulation of debrie in the enclosed trigger system that tends to trap it and hold it there.

5 .And triggers that let go when set to light. True, any gun can fire when the trigger is set on the light side but the Remingtons seem to fire at a higher rate that other guns like say the M70 Winchester.

All these problems except for extractor breakage (I have seeen it happen even on new 700,s) usually is not experieced by the occasional weekend shooter or even the once a year hunter but when thousands of rounds are pored throught the 700's the incidents soon manifest themselves.

I realize that I am being very critical on what I would call weekend recreational guns and it is of little importance when looked at in this light but when you are on an expensive hunt out in the middle of nowhere my first choice has always been one of the following:

1st choice------The 98 Mauser, the most rugged , safest and most reliable rifle ever invented and the world standard even today over 100 years after its inception. The word quality is synonymous with the name "Original Mauser" ,it has no castings, no stamped sheet metal and no plastic used in its construction.

2nd. Choice:------The Model 70 Winchester pre-64. Not as safe as the Model 98 because of its inferior gas escape system or as reliable because of its modern speed lock firing mechanism but a very good working mans gun.

3rd choice-----Model 70 Post 64. Believe it or not it is one of the most misunderstood of any gun Winchester rifle ever made. But it has one of the smoothest actions and strongest extractors of any of the newer more modern guns. Its accuracy is every bit as good as the Remington 700.

Of couse their are many other famous bolt guns like the Sako's , Shultz and Larsens, Husqvarna, Brno, 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Savage 110, Weatherby MK V to name just a few.

And lets not forget the sporters built on the Japanese Arisaka, perhaps one of the strongest built bolt action military rifles ever built.

 

[EJ]

Mdl 70

Another vote for the WIN 70 Pre and Post-

 

[pdh]

Oh my beloved 700's.
I am no expert by no means but my .308 Varmint Special was bought new sometime in the early 80's.Can not tell you how many rounds where shot through it but have always put it through the mill at the time I bought it,during spring up through the fall on informal target shooting and varmint hunting.Just as happy with it now as when the day I bought it.Not a bit of trouble with it.

Got my 700 VS sometime in early to mid 90's.Tackdriver and no maint problems with it either.

There is alot of great guns out there in the market.All have their strong and weak points.I personally think though,you can't go wrong with a Remington 700.Mine has never let me down.

 

[Art Eatman]

BHP9, given the 700's chamber design, how in the world could a cartridge case "let go"?

Another way to look at it: A case that would let go in a 700 would let go even "worster" in a claw-feed rifle. There's more and thinner brass which is unsupported.

Art

 

[BHP9]

Another way to look at it: A case that would let go in a 700 would let go even "worster" in a claw-feed rifle. There's more and thinner brass which is unsupported

I agree with you Art. But in the failures that I have seen the 98 Mauser will divert the gases away from the shooter face no matter how catastrophic the case lets go.

I had a friend only last summer that blew up his .223 Remington, and that little cartridge, when it blew. even shattered the stock.

And I hand another friend who blew up a 30-06 Rem. Even though the case is better supported than a cone feed guns like the Pre-64 Winchester the Rem. chamber does not prevent the case from letting go. The 30-06 Rem. Model 700 actually had the cartridge base practically welded to the bolt face.

Its always amazed me that more modern guns often have so little protection for the shooter if a case lets go. Many newer guns like the new Sako model do not even have one gas escape vent in the reciever. The older REM. 788 also had very little gas protection in the event of a blow case.

I have seen a few modern guns give pretty good protection like the excellent gas baffle system found in the Savage 110 and also in the Weatherby MK V which also seems to protect the shooter fairly well .

Most people simply do not believe that anything will ever go wrong with the weapon they buy and do not take a hard look at the mechanical design of the weapon before they decide to purchase a weapon. MOst look at price first and accuracy second giving little thought to the ruggedness or long term reliability or safety of the weapon. Since most use their weapons very little this is probably somewhat justified but if you are a match shooter pouring thousands of rounds through a gun or traveling to the far and distant corners of the globe where on the spot repairs may be needed the History of a weapon is well worth taking into consideration.

I strongly suggest that anyone that is interested in rifles buy and read cover to cover the excellent book called "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank De Haas. Also go back and read last years Shooting Times Magazine that carried one of the best articles ever written on the 98 Mauser by the talented and respected gun writer "Rick Jamison". You do not want to miss reading his excellent article on the inner workings of the world famous 98 Mauser.

 

[clem]

I've got a 700 BDL in .308 WIN. that I purchased in 1970, new, for $119.00. It has fired at least 5,000 rounds and is still a nail driving killer.

Great rifles!

 

[cheygriz]

After all of the years of totally unjustified winchester bashing, it was inevitable.

There's nothing wrong with the 700. Never has been!

There's also nothing wrong with the Model 70. Never has been.

 

[goon]

Aren't the Military sniping rifles (M40) built on 700 actions?
I know that most of us who were in the military know that military equipment does not usually work as well as it is supposed to.
But I doubt that out of all of the rifles that the US military could choose from, they would choose a POS.
I am sure that there will be a M-16 slam coming up pretty soon from that statement.

 

[labgrade]

IIRC, Gale McMillian made some comment about the 700 bashing over at TFL - do a search.

"When I developed the M40 for the military .... " I dint need to be convinced, but lends some non-credence to the "700 sucks" themes.

While watching most any "sniper flic," take a look at the safety (vertical versus horizontal travel = 700 vs 70) & you'll see that almost every one of 'em is a 700.

Last 700 I bought was easily 10 years ago. I did the smart thing & walked through a few of the dealer's offerings & picked the one I liked best. Finish shine can be taken care of with about 10 minutes w/0000 steel wool - dulls the "shine" & turns glossy to satin. Concentrate on the mechanicals. & Rem's factory triggers are one of the best for adjustability/tweaking.

I've a couple 70s = beautiful rifles & many more 700/7s. All told, I'd rather have Rem's offerings. Yup, maybe the Ford versus Chevy thing. Neither suck.

One thing I have noticed though, is that QC/mfg process seems to have taken a nose-dive.

Bought a new S&W 66 a few back & there was still burrs hanging from the cylinder fluting process. Had to hand-deburr myself.

Nobody's immune. Merely a function of getting more out the door at the "best" price.

 

[redneck2]

As usual...

the "truth" is a compilation of one's experiences

I own, or have owned, 5 different 700's. All were good, some were excellent, and one was just bought a few months ago.

My friend had a 22-250 that shot considerably less than 1" at 200 yards.

I also saw 2 at a local shop (Lunkers in Edwardsburg, MI) that were awful. The proof stamps for the barrels were on top, the finish and fit were awful.

Salesman said "kinda wonder what the inside is like" and "an inspector NEVER could have looked at that rifle". This was maybe 3 years ago.

Which is true???? They both are.

 

[YodaVader]

The only problem I have encountered with the Remingtons I have owned or the 700s owned by friends was stiff feeding fron the magazine. The amount of effort required to feed a round was considerable on a few I have tried. It would help if you can bench press 350 pounds! On my friend's 700P in .308 the effort was so extreme I simply single loaded afterwards.

Relieving the magazine spring tension did wonders for one of my 700s. My current 700 I use as a single shot anyway and actually have a single shot adapter or follower.

Some of the current 700s I see with the H&S stock have a huge gap on on side of the barrel and the barrel almost touches on the other side.

But I will say that all the 700s I have owned or any of the ones owned by friends that I have shot have all been extremely accurate.

 

[Byron]

About two years ago I bought a new ADL/synthetic stock in 243. I had shot about 50 rounds through it. When taking out of my safe, I opened the bolt and the bolt handle came cleanly off the bolt. It was sent back to Remington and repaired. I have owned several 700's over the years and this is the problem that I have had. I shoot Ruger 77's now.

 

[Art Eatman]

The reason I had the question about "blowup": The 721 was the fore-runner to the 700. Remington's acid test--omitting the lengthy story--was a .30-'06 cartridge with a caseful of something like 4064 powder and FOUR 220-grain bullets in front of it.

Nothing blew up. (Lord knows what the "group" looked like. )

So I guess my question relates to the mechanism of a blowup in that type of chamber. Doesn't matter if it's Remington, Sako or Weatherby. "How do it happen?" What, a caseful of Bullseye? A .32 bullet in a .308 bore? I dunno. It's certainly hard to envision a brass case that's so porous and weak...

?

Art

 

[cratz2]

I do own or have owned probably 5 in the last five years. I've never had an actual problem with any of them. As others have said, the synthetic stocks are very cheesy as are the Savage synthetics.

I had a trigger smith friend work on my 700 Police and he was able to get just over 2 lbs with the factory trigger. Feels great. The only other 700 I currently own is my ADL in 270. I worked the trigger until I'm happy with it. For super precision work, I'd probably pay someone to clean it up a bit but it's plenty accurate for me.

Regardless of what one smith says, the 700 is still the current action of choice for precision rifles in the under $3,000 range and there are plenty of precision shooters, benchrest competitors and hunters (and deer and elk for that matter ) that will attest to the fact that they are generally very capable rifles.

 

[12-34hom]

The 700 club.

Rem 700 = excellent fare.

I've owned 2, one both factory offerings. One i had modified into my current varmint hunting rifle.

They are the base for many varmint and benchrest rifles. How many Winchester - Ruger - Savage do you see compared to Remington 700 based rifles?

12-34hom.

 

[BusMaster007]

What's the deal with the bolt handles pulling off?

 

[nextjoe]

BusMaster,

The deal with the bolt handles is that they're silver soldered on.... and often not well done. At least one professional hunter was found killed by an elephant. His 700 was some distance away, with the bolt handle missing.

It's possible the elephant broke off the handle while it was playing with the gun, or it could've broken off during use and gotten him killed. No one really knows what happened.

Best,
Joe