Remington 700 vs Winchester 70 also deer round question

[el44vaquero]

I was in the market for a Remington 700 .30-06, but ended up with this Winchester Model 70 .30-06

I bought Model 70 off of an old man that bought it new back in 1963. Had a little surface rust on it, and looked like the inside had never seen a brush. About a half of a hour of work and it's looking good. I really like the deep blue job and the wood stock. I payed $150 for it.

This may be a Ford vs Chevy question, but which one would you prefer and why?

Another question. I've always used a Marlin 336 to deer hunt with, but am thinking about using this one this season. Here in Oklahoma we have medium size whitetails. What .30-06 round would you recommend to bring one down?

 

[Jim Watson]

Nothing wrong with Remington but what I have is Winchester.
For a functioning Pre-64, $150 is a steal bordering on unethical, the action alone is worth more than that.

Any standard softpoint 150 to 180 grains is fine for deer. No reason to pay big bucks for a premium bullet and hot load when your less powerful .30-30 is plenty.

 

[halvey]

$150? Man...

For a deer rifle it really doesn't matter.

 

[dakotasin]

so, you got a pre-64 winchester m70 for $150?? you better be looking over your back for the police - stealing isn't legal!!! and, you better head out for a lottery ticket, pronto!

i prefer 700's by a wide margin, but i have been on the hunt for a pre-64 m70 forever... the differences between the two are personal preference. you done good.

for ammo, feed it a steady diet of hornady light mag or hornady custom 165's, and be confident that if you hit it, it will die.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I bought Model 70 off of an old man that bought it new back in 1963. Had a little surface rust on it, and looked like the inside had never seen a brush. About a half of a hour of work and it's looking good. I really like the deep blue job and the wood stock. I payed $150 for it.

I have a friend who can eat anything he wants and ever gain an ounce. Until you posted this, I thought I could never hate anyone as much as I hate him.

 

[jefnvk]

Yeah, you kinda ripped the guy on that deal.

I'd have bought it in a heartbeat.

As for the question, I prefer my 700 over my friend's Model 70. Seems a bit more sleek, not so bulky. But that may just be his gun.

As long as they hit where I am aiming, both are great guns.

 

[halvey]

Before anyone else says it:
"The deer won't know the difference."

 

[el44vaquero]

I guess I should share a little more.

So a pre-64 will 99.9% blueing and a few scratchs on the heirloom quality wood stock for the grand total of $150 wasn't too bad.

I bought one of those tool boxes that fits on the back of a pickup and this gun was in it. He told me I could have whatever was in it, but when I saw that in there I told him about it. He said he told me everything in it, and he meant it. I felt really bad about it, so I told him all I had left after the toolbox sale was $150. He said he'd take it.

I just bought a can full of 192 rds of 150 gr FMJ Mil Sup .30-06 to get the feel of the gun. Figure I could deer hunt with this round, but would probably punch a hole right through the deer, and could possibly be a danger to my cattle. But for about 12 cents a piece, it should make good target ammo. Anyone shoot Mil Sup that may have some tips to look for?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Before anyone else says it:
"The deer won't know the difference."

Bite your tongue!

Are you trying to tell us a deer wouldn't feel pride to be shot with the "Rifleman's Rifle?"

 

[CB900F]

El44;

I very much prefer the Winchester model 70 over the Remington. The Winchester employs the Mauser type action, with the extractor claw, rather than the push-feed & plunger system of the Remington. The operation of the safety on the Winchester differs significantly from the Remmy also. With the model 70, you can lock the firing pin & still cycle the bolt to eject rounds if you wish to do it that way.

Stop tellin' people what you bought it for! Else you run the risk of physical violence being visited upon your person.

By the way, if you ever want to get rid of that aged decrepit old thing, do let me know - I'll give you back every cent you paid for it!

900F

 

[longrifleman]

Figure I could deer hunt with this round

Better check you game regs. I don't know of any state that allows FMJ for hunting.

Both my son and I use .30-06 for whitetails and his likes 165gr Sierras and my Remington likes 180gr Sierras. 180gr is plenty heavy but I don't think the deer notice. If you have 150gr for practice I'd be tempted to use the same wt round for hunting. You might find some differences between bullets but at usual whitetail distances, again I don't think the deer will know the differences.

$150 for a pre-64 Winchester? You dog.

 

[el44vaquero]

Thanks

I hadn't thought about the legality issue of hunting with FMJ. I'll just figure Oklahoma wouldn't allow it. Any reasonably priced 150gr hunting round out there, and where I can find such a beast?

Also, it has a Simmons 3-9 x 32 scope on it that looks like it's in really good shape. Always used open iron sights on deer hunts. Is this scope a good one?

 

[longrifleman]

Winchester and Remington both make 150gr in standard and premium loadings. I think most other mfgs do also. They are available online but most dealers will probably have them. I'm pretty sure I've seen the Rem stuff at WallyWorld. I handload most of my stuff so I'm not able to offer more help.

A pre-64 Winchester for $150. You dog.

 

[Dr.Rob]

the best 'off the shelf' ammo you can buy, in my opinion, is Federal Premium 165 gr. (VitalShok is the new 'in name' for the load) BTSP

 

[mustanger98]

My first recommended try for hunting ammo for .30-06 would be plain old Remington or Winchester 150gr Soft Point (Win. calls their's PowerPoint). It'll probably be the cheapest '06 hunting load on the shelf and there's been a lot of deer killed with it. If accuracy suffers, move to other bullet weights, but don't up the power yet.

If you handload, try Hornady's 150gr and 165gr SP's, both the spitzer and round nose. I've seen an '06 shoot really tight groups with the 150gr RN's that'd pattern like a shotgun with 165gr SP spitzers. This varies one rifle to the next.

"The deer won't notice". They really won't. Place the bullet through the lungs and have enough penetration to make an exit wound. My Daddy shot a nice buck out behind our house this last Christmas Eve- the bullet went clean through and everything ahead of the deer's diaphragm was mush. Place the bullet right and the deer's going down.

I've shot through Simmons 3-9x32's and 3-9x40. Although I hunt with an aperture-sighted '94, they're good scopes for what most of us do with them, which is go after deer. Daddy's buck I just mentioned was shot through a Simmons 3-9x32. If you're in brush, turn the power down on 3 or 4 and leave it there. If you're in wide open grass, you might want more magnification, but you don't want so much magnification that you can't see the deer for seeing so much brush or just seeing his hair and can't see where on his side your crosshairs are.

For zero, I'd recommend getting it on paper and grouped at 25yds (like the Army used to do on the 1000"range), then run it to 100yds and 200yds if you have the distance. If you put the 150gr SP's on zero at 200yds, you'll probably have a midrange trajectory of about +2-4".

Oh, and GI ball's gonna kick like a mule in a M70.

 

[jefnvk]

Anyone shoot Mil Sup that may have some tips to look for?

Yeah, what's the headstamp? It may be corrosive. Probably not something you want to shoot in a pre-64 perfect Winchester.

Now you tell me that the $150 was for the gun and a truck tool box? You better quit talking. Gonna anger lots here. BTW, what else was in there?

Oh, and GI ball's gonna kick like a mule in a M70.

Heck yeah!

I'd go with the 200 yard zero, too.

 

[el44vaquero]

More Info

I payed $75 for the toolbox. It's an old delta I believe. A new coat of paint, and it's good as new. So after I found the Model 70 in there, he decided he wanted to go through it and see what other treasures he had left. All sorts of craftsman screwdrivers and wrenches in there. A few old Zebco 33s. An old coleman lanter (The single mantle red kind). Also a pair of old rubber boots. Inside one of the boots was the old man's service revolver (S&W 13-1). Tried to take it off his hands also, but he said he had forgot about it and wanted to keep a hold of it. Was this close to having me the revolver that I've been looking for in my dreams.

 

[mustanger98]

If I found a deal like that on that rifle, not accusing you of griping about not getting the revolver, but I wouldn't be.

 

[griz]

A lot of guys here are telling you what a bargin you got but they are wrong. You paid WAY too much for the rifle. However I am the kind and generous sort and would be willing to help out a fellow rifleman. With the $200 I'll pay for it you have a chance at the old S&W.

OK, in real life you did great, and it you did right to return the model 13. The scope isn't a prize, but if it works there is nothing wrong with using it.

 

[el44vaquero]

Question

The local gun dealer has a like new Remington Automatic .30-06 with Simmons scope that he's willing to trade straight across for. Is this a good trade?

 

[willeo6709]

I'd keep the m70.... if hes willing to do an even trade something is fishy.... Carlos Hathcock I think used a Model 70 in much of his sniping career. They can be a very accurate reliable rifle.

 

[CowboyEngr]

I live in Vinita and if you decide you want to dump that old thing, let me know. I'll "help" you out. Sometimes a good deal just falls in your lap, but not that often, so don't feel too bad about it. Sounds like you tried to be fair. Any standard Rem. or Win. 150 gr. load available at WM will handle anything in our neck of the woods. Remington has made some fine rifles, but you did about as good as anyone could with that fine old Winchester.

 

[mustanger98]

The local gun dealer has a like new Remington Automatic .30-06 with Simmons scope that he's willing to trade straight across for. Is this a good trade?

NO! NO! NO! By "Remington Automatic .30-06" I'm taking that to mean 740, 742, or 7400. Don't get me wrong. Those rifles are beautifully done, but they generally have problems. My Daddy had one when I was little and it turned out to be a jam-o-matic.

I'd keep the m70.... if hes willing to do an even trade something is fishy.... Carlos Hathcock I think used a Model 70 in much of his sniping career. They can be a very accurate reliable rifle.

If the dealer offered you the trade, well, take a lesson from the old big buck you're after.

And it's true that Carlos Hathcock used a Model 70 as a sniper. That was before the M40 (Rem700) became USMC standard issue. Hathcock's rifle was an '06, too.

 

[el44vaquero]

Remington Automatic

Remington Automatic. Never shot one, or even held one. I just told him I was looking for a .30-06, when he called to tell me about a Remington 700 ADL. I told him I had just got this Model 70, and that's when he offered me a trade for the remmy auto. How far are these Model 70s accurate out to? (For the average guy firing from a spot on the ground, without a spoter, etc)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

How far are these Model 70s accurate out to? (For the average guy firing from a spot on the ground, without a spoter, etc)

The pre-64 Model 70 (which you have) was called "the Rifleman's Rifle." It won all the long range matches back in it's day, was the first choice for Marine snipers in Viet Nam (who only went to the Remington 700 when Winchester refused to build pre-'64 Model 70s for them.)

Now you MIGHT have a lemon in your Model 70. And your dealer MIGHT have a Remington Model 7400 that shoots better than any other Model 7400 ever made. But I doubt it.

Your Model 70 Winchester, with a good scope, good ammo, and a good man behind the buttplate will shoot right along with any rifle ever made.