Republican Buchanan Declared Fla. Winner

[Desertdog]

I am confused. The Democrats have been said to have won the House by a narrow margin. Then haere comes the Florida vote saying the Republican won this seat, and at the bottom of the story there are three more contested seats where the Republicans are ahead. If all four of these seats are found for the Republican, will that be enough to swing the house back from the Democrats?

Republican Buchanan Declared Fla. Winner
By BILL KACZOR
ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-elect/2006/nov/20/112001542.html
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -

State officials Monday certified Republican Vern Buchanan won the House seat being vacated by Republican Rep. Katherine Harris, though the loser immediately sued for a new election, arguing that touch-screen voting machines had malfunctioned.

Democrat Christine Jennings contested her 369-vote loss in the 13th District, asking a judge to order a new election because of problems in Sarasota County, where more than 17,000 voters who cast ballots in other races Nov. 7 failed to vote in the congressional contest.

That rate is nearly six times higher than in the other counties in the congressional district or on Sarasota's paper absentee ballots, Jennings alleges in her legal challenge. Though she lost in the other four counties in the district, Jennings did well in Sarasota County, winning there by a 6 percentage point margin.

Jennings' lawyer, Kendall Coffey, said the "statistical evidence is based on numbers that cannot be seriously questioned." He said there were also eyewitness accounts of voting problems.

Common Cause's Florida chairman, Walter Dartland, said a new election may be the only way to resolve the problems.

The state is conducting an audit of the Sarasota voting machines separate from the recount and legal challenge.

The audit will include a Nov. 28 test of machines prepared for but not used in the election. The machines that were used on Election Day cannot be accessed until the challenge period ends 10 days from Monday, said Secretary of State Sue Cobb.

Harris, a congresswoman since 2002, ran for U.S. Senate this year but lost to incumbent Democrat Bill Nelson. She came to national attention six years ago when, as Florida's secretary of state, she presided over the 2000 presidential election recount that gave George W. Bush the presidency.

In 2001, Harris had pushed for an election overhaul that outlawed punch-card ballots and required counties to use touch-screen devices or optical scan machines that read paper ballots voters filled in.

Several other House races nationwide remain unresolved:

- In Ohio's 2nd District, a few counties began counting provisional and absentee ballots in the disputed race between GOP Rep. Jean Schmidt, a Republican who called decorated Vietnam veteran Rep. John Murtha a coward, and Democrat Victoria Wulsin. Schmidt led by about 2,800 votes, though nearly 9,000 votes could remain to be counted in the district.

- In Ohio's 15th District, Republican incumbent Deborah Pryce was ahead of Democrat Mary Jo Kilroy by more than 3,500 votes. Some 19,000 ballots remain to be counted, with results expected next week.

- In North Carolina's 8th District, election officials were recounting votes that last week gave Rep. Robin Hayes, a Republican, a 339-vote margin ahead of Democrat Larry Kissell. Kissell is considering a hand recount.

 

[cbsbyte]

No, the Democrats won the 215 seats needed to gain a majorityin the House, plus they got several additional seats. To create a suber majority. They would have to loose more seats than won to loose the majority.

 

[geronimotwo]

my first thought was, "why is it always florida that makes the headlines for the recounts?". after the first bush race a friend of mine told me i should rent the movie Key Largo. there's a scene with humphrey bogart, and james cagney that will make you laugh after all the recounting.

 

[Tortuga12]

My own opionion, after living here for 2 years, is that Floridians are DUMB. Sorry to whomever that may offend, but I tried being a teacher here, and I just couldn't take it!

 

[ceetee]

Thanks, Tortuga. I guess I'll just move to Iraq...


See this thread.

There were numerous instances of voter fraud throughout Central Florida in this last election. In the specific instance cited by the OP, it was found that 13% of all voters failed to vote in that particular election, while the average of other ballot measures only showed a 1.5% undervote. In other counties, while the average undervote stayed pretty constant (around 1.5%) there were races where the reported undervote came in as high as 22%.

You tell me: Why would the average ballot initiative or candidate earn a 1.5% undervote, while particularly contentious Congressional races earned a 22% undervote?

It takes stupid teachers to make stupid Floridians.

 

[Sistema1927]

Republican Heather Wilson was just declared the winner of NM's 1st District last night after the FIRST count of the ballots, leading her Democrat (solid Socialist credentials) opponent Patricia Madrid by 800+ votes (out of over 210,000).

We will see today if the Democrats call for a recount. Note that both the County Clerk and the Secretary of State are rabid Democrats, and that if there were any shenanigans in the initital count (such as allowing "provisional" or "in lieu of" ballots for phony voters) they went to the favor of the Democrats. :banghead:

 

[TexasRifleman]

It takes stupid teachers to make stupid Floridians.

Heh heh, uhhhh, wrong.

 

[gc70]

You tell me: Why would the average ballot initiative or candidate earn a 1.5% undervote, while particularly contentious Congressional races earned a 22% undervote?

Ballot initiatives are usually clear - yes or no - and I can easy decide which way to vote. Most races are the same - the candidate I clearly like best gets my vote. But in some races, you can't tell the candidates apart without a program; if both candidates are equally repugnant, I may not even vote in that race.

 

[03Shadowbob]

ceetee - LOL

 

[tellner]

The problem is that there was a huge undercount and many complaints by voters that their votes were not registered.

 

[armedpolak]

Tortuga12,
OH NO!!! Does it mean I'm gonna be stuck in Iraq now

 

[ceetee]

That's true, gc70. But... well, Jim March says it way more clearly than I can:

My first glance says that the Democrats have something to complain about. Bigtime.

OK: start by comparing the undervote rates on this Congressional race with other races. It seems damned unlikely to me that the state AG's race would net so much more interest (less undervote) than a US Congressional race. Ditto the "chief financial officer"...DOUBLE ditto the "commisioner for agriculture" or the various "charter review board" races.

It gets worse. ALL of the statewide "amendments" had less voter disinterest than this congressional race!? Including the least popular, Amendment 1 ("state planning and budget process"...yaaawn!). See also:

http://www.votesmartflorida.org/mx/hm.asp?id=home

Is anybody ready to tell me that these races would attract less attention than the US Congress in THIS year when control of congress is so contested?

Sorry guys. I see some evidence here that the machines were told to throw out votes in this race. Randomly or selectively, I can't tell. But here's the kicker: even if it's random, it still could rig the race.

Go see that thread I first posted, for more detail. Understand, also, that Florida statutes (not to mention our Constitution) make manual recounts of close races MANDATORY. So if you think a losing Democrat calling for a recount is just sour grapes, no, it's not. Well, not in every case, that is. It's also the law.

Personally, I just find all those yahoos with their "Floridians are all stupid" attitudes infuriating. It may be that we have more than our share of crooked politicians, *cough cough Jeb Bush cough cough*, but it's going to take a major move away from our two-party system to get rid of that issue.

 

[gunsmith]

Jim we need you to prove

the dems stole the election!

 

[jeff-10]

Why is it always the Democrats calling for recounts?

 

[ceetee]

Why is it always the Democrats calling for recounts?

Okay, once more... In Florida, if election results fall within a certain percentage, a manual recount is MANDATORY. This is written into our Constitution. Any time the votes tallied are that close, the local Board of Elections HAS TO perform a recount. Both candidates have other options regarding choosing other districts to have re-counted, but that's not what we're talking about.

In this instance, it's highly unlikely that the results certified are a honest picture of the voters' intent. In other words, it's highly likely that the election was rigged, and the most likely suspect is the winner (who just happens to be a Republican).

Unfortunately, because of the crappy Diebold voting machines our benevolent Republican state government forced on us, there's no way to actually verify that the votes cast are the same as the votes that were counted.

 

[Tim James]

Okay, once more... In Florida, if election results fall within a certain percentage, a manual recount is MANDATORY.

So why would you "immediately sue for a new election?" Let the process run its course. jeff-10 should have asked, "Why is it always the Democrats running to court and complaining as soon as they lose?" (Don't be upset, I'm sure there are dumbass Republicans that do the same.)

In this instance, it's highly unlikely that the results certified are a honest picture of the voters' intent. In other words, it's highly likely that the election was rigged...

Umm, this isn't Syria. It's not "highly likely" that any election in America was rigged. There could be a small chance since there are corrupt politicians out there, but "highly likely?"

 

[ceetee]

So why would you "immediately sue for a new election?" Let the process run its course. jeff-10 should have asked, "Why is it always the Democrats running to court and complaining as soon as they lose?" (Don't be upset, I'm sure there are dumbass Republicans that do the same.)

Which is exactly what Jim Baker et al did in November/December 2000. Not to beat that dead ole horse again or anything. We all know how that turned out...

Umm, this isn't Syria. It's not "highly likely" that any election in America was rigged. There could be a small chance since there are corrupt politicians out there, but "highly likely?"

Maybe you should check out the thread I linked to earlier, Tim. When somebody like Jim March says it, it's probably true...

 

[Henry Bowman]

- In Ohio's 2nd District, a few counties began counting provisional and absentee ballots in the disputed race between GOP Rep. Jean Schmidt, a Republican who called decorated Vietnam veteran Rep. John Murtha a coward, and Democrat Victoria Wulsin. Schmidt led by about 2,800 votes, though nearly 9,000 votes could remain to be counted in the district.

Jean Schmidt has now been declared the winner, though "Dr." Victoria Wulsin has yet to concede.

 

[Henry Bowman]

When somebody like Jim March says it, it's probably true...

Jim March is a true American patriot. Bless him for the work he does.

But Jim March is biased on this subject (as we all are on most subjects, especially those about which we are passionate). His bias doesn't mean he's not correct, but in an area such as this, his opinion is not conclusive proof.

BTW, the same rules apply to me and my opinions, expert or otherwise.

 

[davec]

Jean Schmidt has now been declared the winner, though "Dr." Victoria Wulsin has yet to concede.

Is Mrs. Wulsins Ph.D from Harvard somehow fake or in disupute?

Do some people who earn Ph.D's from accredited insitutions deserve the title of Doctor and others not?

 

[ceetee]

But Jim March is biased on this subject (as we all are on most subjects, especially those about which we are passionate). His bias doesn't mean he's not correct, but in an area such as this, his opinion is not conclusive proof.

Jim has educated himself on this subject to the point where I consider him to be somewhat of an "expert witness" as it were. Even though I qualified it with the word "probably", I tend to give his opinion more weight than most internet opinions.

That said, I'm "passionate" in my belief that these cursed Diebold voting machines we Floridians have been saddled with violate both the letter and the spirit of Florida law.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Is Mrs. Wulsins Ph.D from Harvard somehow fake or in disupute?

I believe she has an MD. I put "Dr." in quotes because she tried to make her title an issue and all of her campaign signs included "Dr." I have a hard time accepting that a practicing MD would advocate socialized medicine.

Expert witnesses are almost always biased. That doesn't make them wrong, and they may be very persuasive. I have a great amount of respect for Jim March. But he cannot be everywhere at once and has to draw conclusions from second-hand information at times. Elections only happen every couple of years and a few outliers on the graph do not translate into error (necessarily).

 

[ceetee]

Elections only happen every couple of years and a few outliers on the graph do not translate into error (necessarily).

A single unexplained incident could be an aberration. Several such incidents, all occurring in the same statistical pool, at the same time, form a pattern.

My biggest problem is that there's no way we can prove or disprove the matter either way. How am I supposed to be confident in our process of elections when I can't know for sure that there was no monkeying around? In the past, it could be easily proven than an election was tampered with. With the machines we (in Florida, at least) use, that's an impossibility.

And as you can probably tell, it's got me steamed...

 

[Desertdog]

In the past, it could be easily proven than an election was tampered with.

Only if someone really went to all the trouble to prove.

Does more voters than residents prove a corrupted election?

Or, every time they do a recount there are "more ballots were found that had been overloooked" until at last the Democrat won.

When things like this go without investigation, why worry about a larger than normal under-vote, unless you are the loser.

 

[Henry Bowman]

For the record, I agree with you ceetee.