Reservist depressed. Family calls police for help.

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Maybe I missed something, but the police were called and they came, Dean refused to come out, said "someone will die" and over the next fourteen hours fired several rounds out of his house including at a police car with a officer in it. The neighborhood had to be evacuated on Christmas day. Dean then comes out of his house and points a gun toward police, so they kill him. I am not getting what they did wrong am I missing something.
 
here's a news article from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/26/AR2006122601033.html

Army Reservist James E. Dean had already served 18 months in Afghanistan when he was notified three weeks ago that he would be deployed to Iraq later this month. The prospect of returning to war sent the St. Mary's County resident into a spiral of depression, a neighbor said.

Despondent about his orders, Dean barricaded himself inside his father's home with several weapons on Christmas, threatening to kill himself. After a 14-hour standoff with authorities, Dean was killed yesterday by a police officer after he aimed a gun at another officer, police said.

Wanda Matthews, who lives next door to Dean's father and said she thought of the younger man as a son, described him as a "very good boy."

"His dad told me that he didn't want to go to war," Matthews said. "He had already been out there and didn't want to go again."

Dean, 29, was shot once after a confrontation with officers that began when a member of Dean's family asked police to check on him about 10 p.m. Monday, police said. Dean stated his intention to kill himself several times late that night and yesterday morning and had fired at officers multiple times, St. Mary's County Sheriff Tim Cameron said. A handful of bullets hit police cars, but no officers were injured.

Cameron said special law enforcement units spent the night trying to negotiate with Dean to come out of the house.

"He was asked to come out and refused repeatedly," Cameron said. "We threw a phone in the window and he threw it back out."

About noon, tactical teams from the Maryland State Police and St. Mary's, Calvert and Charles county sheriffs' offices began pumping tear gas into the home to force Dean out, Cameron said.

Police said Dean stepped outside his front door and pointed a firearm at an officer. Another officer on the scene, believing his colleague was in danger, shot Dean in the chest, they said.

Cameron did not reveal the department affiliation of the officer who shot Dean. The St. Mary's County Bureau of Criminal Investigations, which comprises officers from the sheriff's office and state police, will investigate the shooting, he said.

Dean's father, Joseph L. Dean Jr., was not home during the standoff, authorities said, and his phone number had been disconnected yesterday afternoon. Neighbors were evacuated from the surrounding homes when police responded to the scene.

Matthews said Dean enjoyed hunting and fishing but had lost much of his enthusiasm for life when he found out that he was being deployed to Iraq. She said that she had not spoken to him since he was notified but that his father was extremely worried about Dean. "He was a good country boy," she said.

i added the boldface items above. i think the story sounds justified. the family called police for a welfare check. they didn't immediately send in SWAT. he fired at initial responding officers, prior to SWAT even arriving or at least prior to SWAT doing anything about it. the police attempted to convince him to come out and get help for 14 hours.....AFTER he had already shot at them. then they gas the house. he comes out and points a gun at an officer, after already shooting at them earlier.

yes i'd say the presence of SWAT and the shooting was 100% justified. after some guy shoots at the initial officers and barricades himself, that is totally justified to call in SWAT. what are you supposed to do, leave it up to the patrol division officers to consume all municipal resources at this guy's house so other citizens can't get police services for 14 or more hours? no. that is not reasonable or prudent. normal patrol officers dont possess the training of a hostage negotiator, and also they have to be relieved to take other calls or to simply rest. you can't be up for 14+ hours straight and be expected to make a shoot or dont-shoot situation at a situation like this. it would be negligent for the law enforcement agency to keep their personnel on for that long if they were sitting on a perimeter at gunpoint. that is why several SWAT teams were called in, for relief.

the cops didn't go looking for this guy. his family called the cops. he shot at the cops. he pointed a gun at the cops. the cops cannot leave a suicidal person to kill himself because they are liable and must make an effort to get this person help.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with what happened here. for you guys who have commented that SWAT was not necessary, please tell us how the correct way would have been to respond after the guy shot at you if you were the responding officers?

i'd sure like to hear it from the THR experts....... :banghead:
 
The point of SWAT is not to KILL...

...It is to protect fellow officers and more importantly to protect the citizens. They called the cops and they got a full wave response. What else can you ask for? SWAT is trained like the military because the military works. They don't have the same objectives, and I believe that if the PDs of America had the time and money they would train all officers the same way. SWAT teams are the best trained civilians out there and they are very professional. They are not just some faceless black-clad killers.
 
Well the cop/SWAT bashers are really showing their colors now.

On most threads where people are bleating about what they think is an overuse of SWAT teams, the most common statements are that they are appropriate for barricaded suspects, but not for the typical warrant service.

Here we have an armed and barricaded suspect and now people are whining that this was an inappropriate use of a SWAT team.

So he claimed he wanted to commit suicide. The reality is many suicidal people have hurt/killed others in the process of taking themselves out. Which is entirely relevant here because this guy actually did shoot at the cops.
 
exactly.

SWAT wasn't the first responders. patrol officers responded, got shot at, the bad guy barricaded himself, and then SWAT showed up. if you act like an idiot and shoot at the patrol officers, and barricade yourself, SWAT will probably respond.

for all we know it was supposed to be a suicide by cop.....

im just puzzled. this is a classic textbook use of a SWAT team. if SWAT isn't supposed to be called to this then what are they supposed to be used for?
 
SWAT wasn't the first responders. patrol officers responded, got shot at, the bad guy barricaded himself, and then SWAT showed up.

The article in question does not actually say that. There is no order of events listed, nor does it explicity state at what time SWAT arrived. They could have been the first responders from the information in the article.

Regardless, there obviously isn't enough information in the article to really say what was done right or wrong.
 
Perfect use of SWAT. Normal officers responded, were shot at, created a perimeter and called in those better suited for entry.

The real issue is whether the family felt the police would come and save everyone from someone upset and barricaded. Had they been brainwashed to believe the police would come save someone they cared about from themselves not posing a threat to others? That would have been the only foolishness in this instance.

They came, they arrived to a potentialy lethal situation and responded with lethal force. They are an agency that properly accomplished thier mission. They have no affection or personal obligation to the person they are on scene to arrest. They will arrest him and keep themselves from harm at the same time. When harm was immenent they shot him. This is what they do, it was proper.

If you don't like the outcome of involving the state in private matters then don't involve the state. If you want the state to tell you and your family members how to properly exist then by all means invite them into your home when you have a problem with a loved one. Don't complain when things don't turn out how you expected. If one person gets probation, then your all subject to any search at any time, if one person loses rights, everyone sharing living space loses those rights. Involving the state should be seen as a last resort, not a helping hand. If you need the states help to live with someone, then your living with someone you shouldn't be living with.
 
If good old Patton was here it would just take a few smacks and hed be more than willing to go.
 
Stop your whining. Sounds to me like the situation was handled properly. Good job by the LE/SWAT officers.
 
they got what they asked for

they should have left him alone to work it out, go awol if he felt like it, If I was a cop and had to respond to a depressed recent war vet who was armed...I would want swat to go first.
They should have called his friends.
 
This is what happens when family duties are off-loaded on the government. It's like using a hammer on a screw in this case - a little finesse by the family and it would likely have gone a lot better (using a screwdriver in this example). Hit the screw with a hammer, and don't be surprised if the hole gets stripped out.
 
I guess he really didn't want to go back to Iraq. A guy could get killed there. Or worse. Live through it, see and maybe do horrible things, come home... only to get sent back.

I can't imagine being in his shoes prior to or during the standoff, nor would I want to be one of the SWAT team members.

I'd bet everyone involved doesn't feel 'right' about the events that night.

Cpl James Dean's family and the LEO's on site hoped for a different outcome I'm sure.

Sad. Cpl. Dean paid quite a price serving his country. Another Iraq war casualty. Closer to home.
 
This happened a few miles from me, I know several of the cops that responded, I've talked to one of the SGT. that was involved.

The police did everything they could not to esculate it to where it had to be a deadly force situation. Dean's sister actually is the one who called and requested the police on her brother.

He endured over 100 cannisters of CS without a gas mask apparently, he took several aim shots at officers. The police knew he was a war vet and really gave Dean more time then they otherwise would. A STATE team sharpshooter (Maryland State police respose team) is actually the officer that made the fatal shot on Dean.

After the fact they found that Dean had been using a shotgun loaded with birdshot.
 
The article in question does not actually say that. There is no order of events listed, nor does it explicity state at what time SWAT arrived. They could have been the first responders from the information in the article.

Regardless, there obviously isn't enough information in the article to really say what was done right or wrong.

Intially it was St.Mary's county Sheriffs Dept. that responded (regular) patrol officers. After the situation was accessed SWAT teams from 2 surronding counties came in to support along with the MSP team.

here is a link to one of our local news sites about it.

http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.viewvideonews&story_ID=4311

O, one thing of note that I don't think was mentioned yet was that Dean was a sole survior in an attack on his Humvee in which he lost several friends.
 
The article in question does not actually say that. There is no order of events listed, nor does it explicity state at what time SWAT arrived. They could have been the first responders from the information in the article.

well i dont think SWAT rolled up on a welfare check on a desponent person. i'd like to see one agency that does that.
 
well i dont think SWAT rolled up on a welfare check on a desponent person. i'd like to see one agency that does that.

I didn't say they did. The article you posted didn't say one way or the other. I also said we needed more information. I guess asking for more information is unreasonable.:rolleyes:
 
i didnt say asking for more information was unreasonable. what i am saying is that it is only logical to assume that SWAT wasn't initially called out on a despondent person. that is something that patrol is normally sent to because most of these incidents do not require any sort of SWAT response. SWAT response requires manpower, money, equipment, and other logistics. it may also require the evacuation of neighborhoods and surrounding businesses. during the holidays, it is not within reason to go kicking people out of their houses everytime a neighbor is possibly suicidal. it is also not reasonable or realistic that a law enforcement agency would have sent not only one but three SWAT teams to this call to begin with.

it appears to me that you don't have any clue how law enforcement agencies operate. they don't go sending multiple SWAT teams to calls like this unless there is good reason to.

while yes the article doesn't explicitly state that SWAT did not respond first, it doesn't say that they did. common sense would dictate that SWAT was not the first responding group of officers to show up in their jack-booted glory and surround the house. that is unless you are one of the anti-cop paranoid THR members.
 
while yes the article doesn't explicitly state that SWAT did not respond first, it doesn't say that they did. common sense would dictate that SWAT was not the first responding group of officers to show up in their jack-booted glory and surround the house.


Well excuse me for pointing out the article didn't say what you said it did. Common sense isn't so common.

that is unless you are one of the anti-cop paranoid THR members.

You can qualify someone else with labels. You can go lookup my posts, I have never posted anything "anti-cop", and don't even usually participate in these types of threads. I was only pointing ou that the article you posted as evidence didn't say what you said it did.
 
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