Respect (or lack there of) for older Gun Writers
- Thread starter Miami_JBT
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Old Dog
Member
The thread in question contained seven pages of that forum's membership -- including apparently its senior members and staff -- calling Ayoob names and making really crass comments about him. Wasn't til the last couple pages that anyone started rising to his defense.
Started with this:
-Why does anybody listen to anything this irrelevant old bat has to say? His time has long come and gone.
And this:
-Fetal alcohol syndrome all grown up
More:
-Imagine what he has stashed under that retarded ****ing hair piece.
-Massad looks like the old security guard at the mall that you dont let your kids talk to or he'll offer them a piece of pocket candy while he lights up his 10th cig for the day.
-Or the old guy that just sits at the lgs talking to the owner because he has no real friends, and trys to talk to you about which one is better as you attempt to browse.
-But how in the world does a guy with zero creds become a dominate voice?"
-No ****ing clue why anyone listens to the rug. He has an opinion about EVERYTHING!
Hungarian cabinet making? Here's the rug.
Polar vectors for icbm launches? Old ruggy knows what's what.
How many tiny marshmallows fit into a Northern black rhino's butt? Here's rug with some 411.
**** you irrelevant turd!
-Anyone who wears black long john tops with a tan collared shirt deserves to be shot.
Obviously, THR would not tolerate anything near this level of disrespect.
But the point is, in a huge firearms forum (more members than any other, I believe) readable to anyone with internet access -- non-gun folk, anti's, fence-sitters, etc. -- this is the kind of stuff people will read.
Just further polarization within our community. Shameful.
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,357
Sounds like a bunch of teenagers taking a Call of Duty break.
Old Dog
Member
Regrettably, no. Lot of long-term members (saw some 2004 join dates with huge post counts) making comments such as
Massad is a ****ing dumb***. Not worth the click. The most remarkable thing about him is that he managed to turn zero real world accomplishments in the realm of shooting and combatives into a career.
I was sickened by the attacks and am grateful that I left that community years ago.
Elkins45
Member
The mob doesn’t think, it simply piles on.
Elkins45
Member
That’s the most disrespectful thing I’ve read in a long time. You must really love Askins to be willing to make such an offensive comment in his defense.
You missed the point entirely.
Elkins45
Member
Can you enlighten me? My read was that the poster was lumping all those people in the same category as Askins the serial murderer.
I probably should have been more specific. My comment about a poacher was specifically in reference to John 'Pondoro' Taylor who was a self-admitted poacher.
OP
OP
Miami_JBT
Member
What I was saying is that a number of people over there itching to smoke check a perp. But they're Walter Mittys who never joined the service, became cops, etc.... they live pedestrian lives and itch for the chance to be the "hero" while never actually stepping up to the plate and putting themselves in danger.
Askins was a different breed of man. Guy cut his teeth as a gun fighter in an era of gun fighters. He then served in WWII and Vietnam. In his writing career, his editors wanted him to write scandalous material of his yesteryears since it sold well to the Walter Mittys of his era too.
Again, you have the Walter Mittys types who will never put themselves in danger, but lust for the opportunity.
In many cases (most cases?) it has nothing to do with time moving on, but rather marketing moving on trying to sell you something.
Experienced gun writers are less likely to embrace something simply because it's new. They're going to tell it like it is, not what people marketing new product want them to tell you.
For those a little wet behind the ears, an older experienced gun writer is going to seem out of step, like he doesn't know what he's doing simply because he's not embracing the alleged latest and greatest trends.
Gun writers of yesteryear and today aren't perfect. I've seen some of the best get specs and details flat out wrong. We shouldn't hang on every word these guys have written, but they deserve kudos for their valuable contributions.
Experienced gun writers are less likely to embrace something simply because it's new. They're going to tell it like it is, not what people marketing new product want them to tell you.
For those a little wet behind the ears, an older experienced gun writer is going to seem out of step, like he doesn't know what he's doing simply because he's not embracing the alleged latest and greatest trends.
Gun writers of yesteryear and today aren't perfect. I've seen some of the best get specs and details flat out wrong. We shouldn't hang on every word these guys have written, but they deserve kudos for their valuable contributions.
My mistake--I agree with you
I can only surmise that it is AR15.com.. Place has always been a s***hole and will always be one...
BLACKHAWKNJ
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,122
I seem to be one of the few who enjoyed reading Askins' articles and books back in the 1960s, granted his language was a little juvenile at times, when I "saw the elephant" his attitude towards combat stayed with me, got me and my buddies through some serious situations. Again he gets a bad press . I have never seen Carlos Hathcock, Chuck Mawhinney, Adelbert Waldron, Chris Kyle denounced as psychos. The crews of the Enola Gay, the Bock's Car-did anyone denounce them as mass killers, then-or now ?
Jim Watson
Member
I went to the NRA convention in Atlanta sometime in the 1970s.
Elmer Keith was there, spending all his time talking to members.
Charles Askins was there parading with his Handgunner of the Year trophy in the crook of one arm, a glass of amber colored fluid in the other hand.
The other gunzine writers I recognized seemed cliquish, talking to each other most of the time.
You have to have material. I remember the spell when Askins contrived an affection for 8mm bullets and had many cases necked up or down for them.
Elmer Keith was there, spending all his time talking to members.
Charles Askins was there parading with his Handgunner of the Year trophy in the crook of one arm, a glass of amber colored fluid in the other hand.
The other gunzine writers I recognized seemed cliquish, talking to each other most of the time.
You have to have material. I remember the spell when Askins contrived an affection for 8mm bullets and had many cases necked up or down for them.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I had to look up ".45 AARP".
Sources call it the "OK Boomer" round.
So, it was the preferred caliber of the Oklahoma Boomers?
Sources call it the "OK Boomer" round.
So, it was the preferred caliber of the Oklahoma Boomers?
A lot of the stuff Ayoob and Cooper wrote was practical advice for normal people to incorporate into their lives. A scout rifle, a defense handgun, effective defense ammunition, how to present your case in court. To my knowledge they rarely - if ever - acted as sponsored brand spokesmen. They weren’t trying to sell you more stuff in a civilian arms race.
Yes, or because it’s NOT new but they’ve been around long enough to see it come and go, maybe more than once.
Bazoo
Member
I don't pay much attention to what the trend is, the new folks do, or to youtube.
The keyword in the OP's post is foundation. Those guys laid the foundation for what came after them.
They were cutting edge in their time and much of their information is still relevant but it's important not to become so attached to the legend that we forget that they were a stepping stone to where we are today. Others have built upon that foundation and a wise person will seek the highest level of training available.
My favorite old timer and the true pioneer of scientific self defense was W.E. Fairbarn. The founder of the first modern SWAT team, modern shooting styles and an advanced practitioner of multiple martial arts styles all prior to WW2.
They were cutting edge in their time and much of their information is still relevant but it's important not to become so attached to the legend that we forget that they were a stepping stone to where we are today. Others have built upon that foundation and a wise person will seek the highest level of training available.
My favorite old timer and the true pioneer of scientific self defense was W.E. Fairbarn. The founder of the first modern SWAT team, modern shooting styles and an advanced practitioner of multiple martial arts styles all prior to WW2.
luv2safari
Member
It devolved into a sewer.
Yes absolutely right. And even though I'm not a well known gun writer, I fall into the category of those who've seen things come and go and then come back like it's news. And I'm sure others here do too. Well, I'm just old enough to be a Boomer. We can get pretty exasperated with the youngsters who are too young to know and don't want to learn.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
After a brief stint on one that shall not be named, I no longer bother with forums that allow four letter words. They're not pleasant places to be and you'd be hard pressed to find an actual productive discussion on one. It's kind of comical the folks who find themselves criticizing the old guard for having "not done anything" are among the least experienced among us. We just had a brief encounter with such a keyboard commando here. I find the internet has brought out the worst in people, coupled with other cultural changes of the last few decades. Those who would ever use the phrase "okay boomer" have the least to offer and are best put on your ignore list. You really have to pick and choose the places you want to frequent or it's all just constant negativity. My ignore list here on THR is very short, while my blocked list on Facebook is very, very long.
That said, I stand firmly on the shoulders of those who came before me. I honor their efforts and the fact that they shared them. Yes, you have to keep their work in proper context, for everything changes with time. For the most part, I find the printed words of the old masters to be far more useful and influential than the pecked meanderings of anonymous internet characters who mostly just want attention. If they spent more time doing stuff than talking about it, the world would be a better place.
That said, I stand firmly on the shoulders of those who came before me. I honor their efforts and the fact that they shared them. Yes, you have to keep their work in proper context, for everything changes with time. For the most part, I find the printed words of the old masters to be far more useful and influential than the pecked meanderings of anonymous internet characters who mostly just want attention. If they spent more time doing stuff than talking about it, the world would be a better place.
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