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Returning to C&R condition?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by eastwood44mag, Aug 24, 2006.

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  1. eastwood44mag

    eastwood44mag Member

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    Can a gun that has been made ineligible as C&R be returned to condition?

    Example:

    Mauser rifle in original condition has stock destroyed, is sold as barreled action (NOT eligible). Several hands later, A replacement stock is applied (WWII-era stock, let's say it has Nazi markings, just for argument's sake). Can the rifle be classified as C&R now that it has a military stock?

    No, I don't have one. No, I'm not buying one. I'm just curious as to how that works.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    I think that once the status is voided, it remains so.

    The ATF tends to work on the "once... always..." method. If the receiver was ever full-auto, it's always full-auto. If it was a SBR, then it is always one. It flips it over on the C&R status: if it was voided as a C&R, it is always so.
     
  3. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    I'm gonna have to go the other way . If you build a '65 Mustang from original parts, it's a '65 Mustang. Many of the surplus guns being sold these days are similarly "put togethers" by the importers. It's pretty hard to tell where the parts came from once they're all bolted together again.
     
  4. MikeH

    MikeH Member

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    A big part of C&R eligibilty depends on the "original military configuration" of the firearm. Loosely interpreted, I'd think that restoring the Mauser with the correct stock brings it back to its original military configuration.

    Otherwise, if original configuration means every part has to be original, any repair or modification would make it non-C&R forever.
     
  5. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Actually, I seem to remember reading that the "original military configuration" only applies to military firearms for importation purposes, not C&R after they are already in-country.

    Good question for your local BATFE office.

    Dean
     
  6. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Yes, once a firearm can reclaim its C&R status if returned to its original military configuration. ATF even allows firearms to retain their C&R status with non-permanent modifications as long as all original parts are maintained with the firearm and it can be fairly quickly restored to original. Note that once a firearm is 50 years old, it is C&R by age and doesn't have to be in military configuration.

    Not true. Taking the gun out of its military configuration can possibly make it illegal due to 922(r) violations.
     
  7. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Hkmp5sd,

    I try to stay up on the regs. Could you please post a link to the above so I can read it for myself?

    Thank you,

    Dean
     
  8. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    922(r) applies to semi-autos... the example given by the OP was a Mauser (almost certainly bolt action)... 922(r) violations aren't possible.

    ATF Ruling 85-10 says that it must be in orgininal configuration to be C&R. That is generally taken to mean "as would have been issued at some point in history" not "as came from the factory"...if the miliary changed the configuration it is still C&R.

    C&R status is obviously something which can be attained....after all, no gun starts out as a relic. Only an assembled firearm is considered C&R..but nothing says it must have stayed assembled its entire existence. Unless you can find a specific ruling that says otherwise (and I searched but did not find one) I'd say the common sense approach prevails. Common sense says that a collector is going to try to restore items in their collection to be representative of their era. If they discover that something is not representative (such as the sporter stock on their military rifle) they will try to correct it.

    Problem comes when you are doing that correction not to have a good collection but to be able to transfer it under a different set of rules. That's asking to get bitten IMO.
     
  9. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    In this case. The statement was made in such a manner to include all instances. It applies to semi-auto rifles and ALL shotguns.

    http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

    The most common violation is changes made to C&R SKS rifles. Certain changes drop its C&R status while making a gun that is illegal for importation in its new configuration. Changes to any imported semi-auto C&R or any imported C&R shotgun can bite you. If you want to make changes, send ATF a letter first.
     
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