Lucky
Member
Ah. Well someone had a very good lawyer then.
Richmond Va police officer guilty in shooting
- Thread starter 7mmsavage
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Is it just me or does it not seem like it's dangerous to reach inside an unknown vehicle with an unknown quanity in the driver seat??
I've seen a few of these stories - police trying to remove the keys from the ignition, remove seatbelts etc - with a non-compliant person occupying the driver seat.
Just from a 'tactical' point of view it seems to be a really bad idea.
Cops go on and on about officer safety all the time - you'd think someone might wake up and smell the cofee on this one....
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I've seen a few of these stories - police trying to remove the keys from the ignition, remove seatbelts etc - with a non-compliant person occupying the driver seat.
Just from a 'tactical' point of view it seems to be a really bad idea.
Cops go on and on about officer safety all the time - you'd think someone might wake up and smell the cofee on this one....
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In Hartford, an LEO that had a shooting that was definetely more questionable than that, was just acquitted, so it goes both ways.
I would have voted not guilty if I was one of the jurors. Hopefully the ex-officer, now felon, will get pardoned.
I would have voted not guilty if I was one of the jurors. Hopefully the ex-officer, now felon, will get pardoned.
JohnBT
Member
"...the jury returned with a recommended sentence of $2,500 and no jail time, which the judge imposed."
AND
"But yesterday, he had to acknowledge that it was a mixed-race jury, not a prosecutor, that gave an ex-officer a fine for a killing."
""It's not just a police issue," Khalfani said. "Citizens made this decision. . . .
"There's a Confederate mentality that even affects black folks, who don't have a love for self.""
__________
NAACP decries fine for Couture
Ex-officer convicted of manslaughter in traffic-stop shooting
BY JIM NOLAN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, October 25, 2006
Leaders of the state and Richmond-area branches of the NAACP yesterday decried the $2,500 fine imposed against a former police officer convicted of manslaughter in the May 29, 2004, shooting death of Santanna Olavarria.
On Friday, a jury convicted Michael Couture, 33, of manslaughter. Two hours later, the jury returned with a recommended sentence of $2,500 and no jail time, which the judge imposed. Couture could have faced up to 10 years in prison.
"This sends a message that black people's lives have very little value to citizens, the criminal justice system and all other institutions in this society," the NAACP leaders said in a joint statement issued at a news conference yesterday afternoon.
The leaders also called for the Justice Department to pursue a civil-rights investigation into the shooting, in which then-officer Couture fatally shot the 21-year-old Olavarria following a traffic stop in the city's East End.
"Life has to be more valued," said Rayfield Vines Jr., head of the Henrico County chapter of the NAACP. "We are going to insist people give life more value."
In February 2005, Police Chief Rodney Monroe forwarded all of the department's police-involved shooting cases to the Justice Department for investigation, including the Olavarria shooting. To date, there have been no federal charges filed in the Olavarria case.
Couture is believed to be the first police officer in the modern history of the city's police department to have been convicted of a homicide while on duty.
After the verdict last Friday, Commonwealth's Attorney Michael N. Herring said he was satisfied with the decision but disappointed with the absence of jail time in the punishment recommended by the jury.
Last fall, Couture's first trial in the Olavarria killing on a second-degree murder charge ended in a hung jury. Herring presented the evidence to a grand jury this year, which returned an indictment of manslaughter against Couture.
King Salim Khalfani, executive director of the Virginia State Conference of the NAACP, had criticized the police training and screening process that made Couture a Richmond officer. He also had criticized Herring for not retrying the second-degree murder charges.
But yesterday, he had to acknowledge that it was a mixed-race jury, not a prosecutor, that gave an ex-officer a fine for a killing.
"It's not just a police issue," Khalfani said. "Citizens made this decision. . . .
"There's a Confederate mentality that even affects black folks, who don't have a love for self."
Contact staff writer Jim Nolan at [email protected] or (804) 649-6061.
This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...TD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191333251
AND
"But yesterday, he had to acknowledge that it was a mixed-race jury, not a prosecutor, that gave an ex-officer a fine for a killing."
""It's not just a police issue," Khalfani said. "Citizens made this decision. . . .
"There's a Confederate mentality that even affects black folks, who don't have a love for self.""
__________
NAACP decries fine for Couture
Ex-officer convicted of manslaughter in traffic-stop shooting
BY JIM NOLAN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, October 25, 2006
Leaders of the state and Richmond-area branches of the NAACP yesterday decried the $2,500 fine imposed against a former police officer convicted of manslaughter in the May 29, 2004, shooting death of Santanna Olavarria.
On Friday, a jury convicted Michael Couture, 33, of manslaughter. Two hours later, the jury returned with a recommended sentence of $2,500 and no jail time, which the judge imposed. Couture could have faced up to 10 years in prison.
"This sends a message that black people's lives have very little value to citizens, the criminal justice system and all other institutions in this society," the NAACP leaders said in a joint statement issued at a news conference yesterday afternoon.
The leaders also called for the Justice Department to pursue a civil-rights investigation into the shooting, in which then-officer Couture fatally shot the 21-year-old Olavarria following a traffic stop in the city's East End.
"Life has to be more valued," said Rayfield Vines Jr., head of the Henrico County chapter of the NAACP. "We are going to insist people give life more value."
In February 2005, Police Chief Rodney Monroe forwarded all of the department's police-involved shooting cases to the Justice Department for investigation, including the Olavarria shooting. To date, there have been no federal charges filed in the Olavarria case.
Couture is believed to be the first police officer in the modern history of the city's police department to have been convicted of a homicide while on duty.
After the verdict last Friday, Commonwealth's Attorney Michael N. Herring said he was satisfied with the decision but disappointed with the absence of jail time in the punishment recommended by the jury.
Last fall, Couture's first trial in the Olavarria killing on a second-degree murder charge ended in a hung jury. Herring presented the evidence to a grand jury this year, which returned an indictment of manslaughter against Couture.
King Salim Khalfani, executive director of the Virginia State Conference of the NAACP, had criticized the police training and screening process that made Couture a Richmond officer. He also had criticized Herring for not retrying the second-degree murder charges.
But yesterday, he had to acknowledge that it was a mixed-race jury, not a prosecutor, that gave an ex-officer a fine for a killing.
"It's not just a police issue," Khalfani said. "Citizens made this decision. . . .
"There's a Confederate mentality that even affects black folks, who don't have a love for self."
Contact staff writer Jim Nolan at [email protected] or (804) 649-6061.
This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...TD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191333251
Borachon
Member
Damn. I think you are describing the guy who stopped my buddy and I for running a stop sign when we took the exit off Highway 6 near the Village a couple of years ago (I wasn't driving.). My buddy did a "California roll" at 5 in the morning and got popped for it. We were joking around with the officer about having been out all night drinking
(we were both sober, we had gone down to Huddle House to have an early breakfast) and he mentioned he'd served in Afghanistan. He did breathalize us both before he let us drive off, in spite of our assurances that we were just "funnin'" him. Something that my friend and I observed on another occasion, with a different officer, MIGHT...and I emphasize MIGHT....explain why the frat guy acted the way he did. (Apart from being intoxicated or hopped up...if the suspect was.)
What we witnessed previously was a permissive response on the part of an officer to a drunk driving frat guy. We observed this while out walking one night around midnight near fraternity row and the accoustics lab building at the intersection. A police officer was directing traffic at the intersection and this SUV pulls half way through the intersection before he notices the cop and manages to hit the brake. Guy gets out of the SUV and stumbles over his own feet, totally intoxicated. Didn't fall, but he came mighty close.
My friend and I watch this and wait for the cop to lower the boom on this guy. Instead...the cop helps him back into the SUV, steps back, and lets him drive off.
Buddy and I look at each other, shake our heads, and make a couple of remarks about how nice it must be to be rich. There are a lot of clues that tend to support the proposition that if you drive a nice car, or have a strong family name, then your actions are going to be....what's a good word?...."allowed"...or perhaps "tolerated" is a better word...around the Ole Miss campus.
The Daily Mississippian hints at this permissive behavior in an editorial. http://www.thedmonline.com/media/st...200610270155&sourcedomain=www.thedmonline.com
The reason why I think this frat guy thought he could ignore the cops and drive off? Because he'd probably seen other guys in his frat or other frats do the same thing time after time before this, and never saw them punished. In fact he probably got a helping hand and a smile for his trouble.
I understand that the cops on campus are told to lay off the rich kids sons and daughters. There are some VERY powerful people who have kids going to the school. Senators. Congressmen. Famous athletes.
Ole Miss is the elite school in Mississippi so it has more than its fair share of rich idiots walking around. But if you don't enforce the law the SAME way for EVERYONE, then some people are going to feel like they are above the law and ignore the authorities. Maybe they ARE above the law. Maybe their money gives them that privledge.
I have to commend this officer. He was trying to stop this guy. Even though this guy was from Germantown Tennessee, which probably meant his family had money, he was at least TRYING to stop this drunken menace. When he stopped my buddy for rolling that stop sign, he didn't throw his weight around and was completely professional. He breathalized us. He gave my buddy a ticket for rolling the stop sign, and he wished us a good day. But he didn't let us off.
Hopefully the other officers will learn by his example, ignore the family origins when they make traffic stops, and carry out their duty. Who knows? Instilling a little respect for the law may mean the life they save....may be their own.
carpettbaggerr
Member
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Well, El T, 'twas Virginia and not Tejas.....
Lucky
Member
Turns out the fine was actually to cover the damage to the upholstry. Car seats and carpets are worth $2500, it would be just silly for people to suggest a $2500 fine for taking an innocent human life.
michaelbane
Member
These statements echo my feelings on this matter. I know cops are not obligated to retreat like civillians are; otherwise, they would not be able to do their jobs. But reaching into a car that could suddenly take off? That's just crazy, even for a cop to do.
griz
Member
I read the short description of the event provided in the article. It's one of those times when the details are everything. Note they said there was a lot of conflicting testimony about how fast the car moved after the cop fell in. That sounds like the key point because it defines how much danger the cop was in. I think that there isn't, indeed can not be, enough information provided to condeem either the LEO or the jury.
XDKingslayer
member
I still have to give the cop a little bit of credit.
There was only two witnesses him and a dead guy and he still testified and told the truth. He had every oppertunity to make something up that would probably have gotten him off. But he didn't.
He testified, essentially against himself. That took nuts.
There was only two witnesses him and a dead guy and he still testified and told the truth. He had every oppertunity to make something up that would probably have gotten him off. But he didn't.
He testified, essentially against himself. That took nuts.
JohnBT
Member
10/25 Times-Dispatch:
"Members of the jury were not available to comment, but much of the evidence introduced over the trial's first two days focused on the appropriateness of Couture's actions after Aeschlimann spotted the gun and urged him to get Olavarria out of the car. Couture suddenly grabbed Olavarria in an arm hold. Olavarria didn't resist, but his seat belt was strapped across him.
When Couture reached across him to undo the belt, he said Olavarria first grabbed his shirt and then tried to push him away. The car began to move -- it remains unclear why or how fast -- and the officer ran alongside while struggling with the driver. Couture said he fell partly into the car and then pulled himself the rest of the way inside.
As he sprawled across Olavarria with his face toward the passenger floorboard, Couture testified that he pulled his gun, began squeezing the trigger, rolled on his side and fired. He saw both of Olavarria's hands rise and heard him say, "Don't." He hadn't seen a gun or been told directly that a gun was in the car."
"Members of the jury were not available to comment, but much of the evidence introduced over the trial's first two days focused on the appropriateness of Couture's actions after Aeschlimann spotted the gun and urged him to get Olavarria out of the car. Couture suddenly grabbed Olavarria in an arm hold. Olavarria didn't resist, but his seat belt was strapped across him.
When Couture reached across him to undo the belt, he said Olavarria first grabbed his shirt and then tried to push him away. The car began to move -- it remains unclear why or how fast -- and the officer ran alongside while struggling with the driver. Couture said he fell partly into the car and then pulled himself the rest of the way inside.
As he sprawled across Olavarria with his face toward the passenger floorboard, Couture testified that he pulled his gun, began squeezing the trigger, rolled on his side and fired. He saw both of Olavarria's hands rise and heard him say, "Don't." He hadn't seen a gun or been told directly that a gun was in the car."
JohnBT
Member
"Turns out the fine was actually to cover the damage to the upholstry."
Talk about silly. Got a link to support this?
John
Talk about silly. Got a link to support this?
John
RustyShackelford
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LE-LEO civil suits
To answer the question about court cases/civil suits...
I think it's wrong to waste time and money, let alone the stress, pain, etc that goes with a bogus lawsuit filed by a criminal and/or the family members/spouses of criminals.
US courts are over loaded with lawsuits and court cases. If a LEO or police agency is cleared and the actions are deemed correct then it's not fair for another layer of stress/BS to be added to the event(s).
My state changed some gun laws to prevent this kind of fraud/waste/abuse and laws were passed to aid sworn LEOs who did nothing wrong from unfair labor policies/lawsuits too.
Rusty
To answer the question about court cases/civil suits...
I think it's wrong to waste time and money, let alone the stress, pain, etc that goes with a bogus lawsuit filed by a criminal and/or the family members/spouses of criminals.
US courts are over loaded with lawsuits and court cases. If a LEO or police agency is cleared and the actions are deemed correct then it's not fair for another layer of stress/BS to be added to the event(s).
My state changed some gun laws to prevent this kind of fraud/waste/abuse and laws were passed to aid sworn LEOs who did nothing wrong from unfair labor policies/lawsuits too.
Rusty
RNB65
Member
Considering that he just barely avoided a 2nd degree murder conviction in the first trial, I don't think he should be too uphappy with a manslaughter conviction and a slap on the wrist penalty (assumming that the judge accepts the jury's sentence recommendation).
No_Brakes23
Member
You're talking about a class of people that sometimes jump in front of fleeing cars or PIT them and then accuse the driver of vehicular assault.
Now none of my friends who serve in LE would do anything that dumb, but I see footage of it all the same, and I have heard their co-workers claim it is a good idea. This case sounds suspect. I wasn't there so I obviously can't say what happened. I don't put much stock in what the parents say, because everyone's precious little criminal was a perfect angel. As for the foot coming off the brake, I can definitely see that. Remember the 120 shots LASD incident from a year or so ago? You can clearly see the car slide forward after the shooting starts. If you are driving an automatic and you get involved in a struggle or just get shoved, the car is gonna start moving unless you keep your foot on the brake. I find it interesting that no mention is made of whether or not a weapon or anything that could be percieved as a weapon was found in the car.
At any rate, when I get pulled, I kill the engine, toss the keys visibly on the dash and put my paws at 10 and 2. I'm not gambling my life versus the LEO's desire to go home in one piece.
Lucky
Member
JohnBT it was a joke If someone murdered me I'd sure hope they had a bit more punishment than 2 week's pay being deducted If the victim had been standing in line at Starbucks, and you stumble into him, and he pushes you away, and you draw and blindly fire at him, you must be a Kennedy to get off with a tiny fine!
If someone murdered me I'd sure hope they had a bit more punishment than 2 week's pay being deducted If the victim had been standing in line at Starbucks, and you stumble into him, and he pushes you away, and you draw and blindly fire at him, you must be a Kennedy to get off with a tiny fine!MAURICE
Member
The P.D. in my hometown (Springdale,AR) has a policy that states an officer is not to reach into a car when keys are in the ignition. Not to grab the keys. Not to subdue a suspect. Not for anything. All for this very reason.
You can always catch the bad guy later. You can't bring back a human life.
You can always catch the bad guy later. You can't bring back a human life.
JohnBT
Member
"JohnBT it was a joke"
Sorry, I didn't see the smiley.
John
Sorry, I didn't see the smiley.
John
cassandrasdaddy
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check again
"I find it interesting that no mention is made of whether or not a weapon or anything that could be percieved as a weapon was found in the car." it was the cops partner spotting a gun that got the party started
"I find it interesting that no mention is made of whether or not a weapon or anything that could be percieved as a weapon was found in the car." it was the cops partner spotting a gun that got the party started
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2006
- Messages
- 18
what a mess
you never reach in the car.......ever.......never.....
i'm sure there is a policy and it was messed up here.......
your weapon wont discharge if it was where it was supposed to be when you put hands on someone in an attempt to take him/her into custody.
what a mess
you never reach in the car.......ever.......never.....
i'm sure there is a policy and it was messed up here.......
your weapon wont discharge if it was where it was supposed to be when you put hands on someone in an attempt to take him/her into custody.
what a mess
No_Brakes23
Member
Yeah I read that part. That's why it is interesting that they didn't say they retrieved one from the vehicle.
"I think I see a gun!" is a whole lot different than "A loaded firearm was found inside the decedents vehicle."
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