Phantom Warrior
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For discussion sake, yes.
Rifle practice for the Army?
- Thread starter Phantom Warrior
- Start date
- Status
For discussion sake, yes.
Defintion from http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/discipline+(training)
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/condition+(influence)
***
I used the word conditioned in my statment because that is the word used in psychology [neutral emotional loading of word] I included "brainwashed" & "disciplined" in () as acknowledgement of negative and positive loading of words. I did this to show my word choice was deliberate and that I was trying to avoid emotional spin to the words.
see next post
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/condition+(influence)
***
I used the word conditioned in my statment because that is the word used in psychology [neutral emotional loading of word] I included "brainwashed" & "disciplined" in () as acknowledgement of negative and positive loading of words. I did this to show my word choice was deliberate and that I was trying to avoid emotional spin to the words.
see next post
You have agreed, for sake of arguement, that discipline is most important part of military.
Most of discipline is established in basic, after that it is mainly re enforcement.
As part of this process they set things up so that you will "fail" (by fail I mean give DI a reason/pretext to give you grief). They put you under a fair amount of stress (ie the running, the push ups, the yelling, etc) this is designed to lower your resistance (for fun some day compare standard interogation techniques with basic training) so that your more open to the direction they provide.
If they were interested in maxing your physical condition they would be doing things much differently (you would get more rest for example, you get stronger in recovery phase not when you are actually doing an exercise).
BTW this is one reason why being in shape before you go will help, it will be less stressfull for you that way. Both because it takes less effort to do the PT and also because a fit body handles stress better than unfit.
Same with if they were trying to teach you skills. Are gunsmiths or EMTs trained the way people are treated in Basic? Can you think of anyone who trains for skills vs mindset the way basic is done?
So what are they trying to do?
Now police go thru some of the same stuff at the police academies, for some of the same basic reasons.
They also place you in a groups and punish the group (or leader of group) for screwups that individuals make. Besides wearing the same uniform as the rest in your group you also have the same haircut, same glasses, etc.
One of the goals this acomplishes is to switch the way you view yourself, to an extent, you start looking at the things you do thru the lens of the other people in the military. And not so much from your own internalized goals. When your young it is harder to resist this even if your aware of what is going on. Because your personal identity is still forming. Also your personal time horizon is much shorter, everything happens now. You have a hard time thinking 10 years ahead (why would anyone think 10 years ahead).
If you study violence outside of War (ie Murder) you find same basic demographic seems to apply. Most of the people involved with it are young and male.
Older people are still affected by military discipline, but to a smaller extent. Because their beliefs and personality are less flexable, and also because they are more likely to go with the flow and not fight it. In other words they will give in to outward discipline, but internally still keep their personal structure.
***
The above still isn't very coherent. I don't have enough time to smooth it out anymore. But I think it is enough of an outline for you to get at least a small idea of what I am talking about.
Only source I could find off the cuff on demographics of military http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep99/html/appendices/A_2.html
Basically, you can figure out goals of a program by studing the structure. Basic training isn't structured to maximize physical conditioning, or specific skills. It seems to be optimized for changing the behavior and to a lesser extent the mindset of indiviuals.
You get rewards (medals, rank, leave, ribbions) for doing things the way they want. And you get punishment when you don't.
Big difference between military and normal jobs is that at least in basic training in military they will give you lots of flak over smallest things that don't conform to "the Army way". They emphasize conformity over excellence, like the rifle training I mentioned (a sling will help, if you don't have time to sling then your probably in CQB and should be using a SMG type stance).
Most of discipline is established in basic, after that it is mainly re enforcement.
As part of this process they set things up so that you will "fail" (by fail I mean give DI a reason/pretext to give you grief). They put you under a fair amount of stress (ie the running, the push ups, the yelling, etc) this is designed to lower your resistance (for fun some day compare standard interogation techniques with basic training) so that your more open to the direction they provide.
If they were interested in maxing your physical condition they would be doing things much differently (you would get more rest for example, you get stronger in recovery phase not when you are actually doing an exercise).
BTW this is one reason why being in shape before you go will help, it will be less stressfull for you that way. Both because it takes less effort to do the PT and also because a fit body handles stress better than unfit.
Same with if they were trying to teach you skills. Are gunsmiths or EMTs trained the way people are treated in Basic? Can you think of anyone who trains for skills vs mindset the way basic is done?
So what are they trying to do?
Now police go thru some of the same stuff at the police academies, for some of the same basic reasons.
They also place you in a groups and punish the group (or leader of group) for screwups that individuals make. Besides wearing the same uniform as the rest in your group you also have the same haircut, same glasses, etc.
One of the goals this acomplishes is to switch the way you view yourself, to an extent, you start looking at the things you do thru the lens of the other people in the military. And not so much from your own internalized goals. When your young it is harder to resist this even if your aware of what is going on. Because your personal identity is still forming. Also your personal time horizon is much shorter, everything happens now. You have a hard time thinking 10 years ahead (why would anyone think 10 years ahead).
If you study violence outside of War (ie Murder) you find same basic demographic seems to apply. Most of the people involved with it are young and male.
Older people are still affected by military discipline, but to a smaller extent. Because their beliefs and personality are less flexable, and also because they are more likely to go with the flow and not fight it. In other words they will give in to outward discipline, but internally still keep their personal structure.
***
The above still isn't very coherent. I don't have enough time to smooth it out anymore. But I think it is enough of an outline for you to get at least a small idea of what I am talking about.
Only source I could find off the cuff on demographics of military http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep99/html/appendices/A_2.html
Basically, you can figure out goals of a program by studing the structure. Basic training isn't structured to maximize physical conditioning, or specific skills. It seems to be optimized for changing the behavior and to a lesser extent the mindset of indiviuals.
You get rewards (medals, rank, leave, ribbions) for doing things the way they want. And you get punishment when you don't.
Big difference between military and normal jobs is that at least in basic training in military they will give you lots of flak over smallest things that don't conform to "the Army way". They emphasize conformity over excellence, like the rifle training I mentioned (a sling will help, if you don't have time to sling then your probably in CQB and should be using a SMG type stance).
Here is better link http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep99/html/chapter3/c3_age.html
quote is from underneath table 3.2 Note this is active enlisted, not recruits.
***
http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep99/html/summary/executivesummary.htm
87% recruits 18-24
quote is from underneath table 3.2 Note this is active enlisted, not recruits.
***
http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep99/html/summary/executivesummary.htm
87% recruits 18-24
Dime Drills
I guess my input cant compete with all the experiences DS's and CO's here.. but heres my take. Before we even went to the range at Fort Jackson (1994, D Co, 1st/61st ha.. I still remember that) we spent .. oh at least two days doing dime drills. There is a little piece of metal that clips onto the flash suppressor of the M16. That little upside down V has a *small* table on top where a dime lays. We stayed on the ground in the prone fighting position until we could repeatedly fire the weapon without the dime falling. It is harder then it sounds, and I think it was one of the best things I learned. The best shooters have flinches... if you dont believe that, take a revolver, and stagger the shells.. throw in an empty chamber, and watch yourself flinch.
See if you could find that metal piece. Maybe that Drill Sergeant could send you one....
and BTW who is this GlamDring ?? What are you getting at? Half of your post seems to be bashing the Army? Yepp, you hit the nail on the head. The biggest part of BCT isnt physical fitness, marksmanship, Drill and Ceremony, History.. any of the things we lerned. It is discipline. Are you trying to say that is a bad thing?
I guess my input cant compete with all the experiences DS's and CO's here.. but heres my take. Before we even went to the range at Fort Jackson (1994, D Co, 1st/61st ha.. I still remember that) we spent .. oh at least two days doing dime drills. There is a little piece of metal that clips onto the flash suppressor of the M16. That little upside down V has a *small* table on top where a dime lays. We stayed on the ground in the prone fighting position until we could repeatedly fire the weapon without the dime falling. It is harder then it sounds, and I think it was one of the best things I learned. The best shooters have flinches... if you dont believe that, take a revolver, and stagger the shells.. throw in an empty chamber, and watch yourself flinch.
See if you could find that metal piece. Maybe that Drill Sergeant could send you one....
and BTW who is this GlamDring ?? What are you getting at? Half of your post seems to be bashing the Army? Yepp, you hit the nail on the head. The biggest part of BCT isnt physical fitness, marksmanship, Drill and Ceremony, History.. any of the things we lerned. It is discipline. Are you trying to say that is a bad thing?
bdiesch: Not bad. But like fire or knifes or guns. Something very powerful that can do a lot of damage. How it is used matters a lot.
Not trying to bash, just trying to get people to realize discipline isn't all good, and care must be used in deciding to use or submit to it.
Was responding to some comments that originated on another thread.
Not trying to bash, just trying to get people to realize discipline isn't all good, and care must be used in deciding to use or submit to it.
Was responding to some comments that originated on another thread.
Thumper
Member
Glamdring,
Trying to characterize your comments in the other thread as referring to a simple youthful foolishness of recruits is disingenuous. A cursory glance at the other thread gives lie to your protests.
I won't comment on someone claiming in depth understanding of military heirarchy due to their google proficiency.
I'm dropping out of this thread for the good of the board, but I'll leave PW with a final comment.
Discipline is an important component of any army, but your brief "disciplinary indoctrination" wont get you through some situations a soldier may find himself in.
The most important attribute of a good soldier is a carefully considered belief in something higher than self combined with loyalty to that cause.
A thinking soldier is the desired end result. That's the most dangerous weapon any enemy will face.
Good luck with your service and Godspeed.
Trying to characterize your comments in the other thread as referring to a simple youthful foolishness of recruits is disingenuous. A cursory glance at the other thread gives lie to your protests.
I won't comment on someone claiming in depth understanding of military heirarchy due to their google proficiency.
I'm dropping out of this thread for the good of the board, but I'll leave PW with a final comment.
Discipline is an important component of any army, but your brief "disciplinary indoctrination" wont get you through some situations a soldier may find himself in.
The most important attribute of a good soldier is a carefully considered belief in something higher than self combined with loyalty to that cause.
A thinking soldier is the desired end result. That's the most dangerous weapon any enemy will face.
Good luck with your service and Godspeed.
*I PITY people that either tries to sound super intelligent (read the lonely 15 year old on mom’s computer) and people who say offensive things merely to get a reaction (see same 15 year old, this time however, with bad acne). Only slightly less obnoxious are people who talk of things they obviously know very little (less obnoxious, but no less pitied).
Glamdring – “If you agree to that point I can explain what I mean in a way anyone can understand (not saying agree but understand).â€
Anyone can understand? Exactly what are you implying? Don’t worry, it’s a rhetorical question, we all saw though your thin one liner. And by the way, no one is debating that discipline is fundamental to a solid military. People are telling you that the *slick* way you keep substituting words like brainwashed (Vietnamese methods?) and conditioned response (Pavlov’s dogs?) degrades the intelligence of the person doing the training and the person receiving it.
Don’t use a British dictionary to define American English words. Anyone who is as educated as you pretend to be would recognize the difference between American and British English as a different language (or at the least, different dialect).
“You get rewards (medals, rank, leave, ribbons) for doing things the way they want. And you get punishment when you don't.â€
Don’t belittle me, or my beloved Military. And please get off of the whole over used and tired word “they". Is this the "they" that drives super secret black helicopters, the "they" that hides alian bodies or the "they" left a glove at the OJ crime scene? Now to details. You get Medals for specific accomplishments (a few of mine: NATO Medal for service in Bosnia during Joint Endeavor; Merit Unit Commendation for service during Enduring Freedom), Ribbons for lesser accomplishments (weapons qualifications, Sea Service, overseas service), rank (specificall advancement) is determined on a sliding (Bell) curve that advances a pre-determined number of selectees to fill needed billets, and leave is accrued at 2.5 days per month, DOD wide. And yes we get punished for breaking rules and regulations, just like in any civilized society.
I wish I cared enough about your opinion to ask you to justify the statement “Discipline isn’t all goodâ€. Discipline to not over eat and get fat? Discipline to not lie? Discipline to go to work on time, in clean presentable clothes and be productive while you are at work (whether in an office environment or in the field)? Discipline to exemplify values of honor, courage, and commitment? Hooyah!! You little turd. Now go set the table, your mother is calling.
Glamdring – “If you agree to that point I can explain what I mean in a way anyone can understand (not saying agree but understand).â€
Anyone can understand? Exactly what are you implying? Don’t worry, it’s a rhetorical question, we all saw though your thin one liner. And by the way, no one is debating that discipline is fundamental to a solid military. People are telling you that the *slick* way you keep substituting words like brainwashed (Vietnamese methods?) and conditioned response (Pavlov’s dogs?) degrades the intelligence of the person doing the training and the person receiving it.
Don’t use a British dictionary to define American English words. Anyone who is as educated as you pretend to be would recognize the difference between American and British English as a different language (or at the least, different dialect).
“You get rewards (medals, rank, leave, ribbons) for doing things the way they want. And you get punishment when you don't.â€
Don’t belittle me, or my beloved Military. And please get off of the whole over used and tired word “they". Is this the "they" that drives super secret black helicopters, the "they" that hides alian bodies or the "they" left a glove at the OJ crime scene? Now to details. You get Medals for specific accomplishments (a few of mine: NATO Medal for service in Bosnia during Joint Endeavor; Merit Unit Commendation for service during Enduring Freedom), Ribbons for lesser accomplishments (weapons qualifications, Sea Service, overseas service), rank (specificall advancement) is determined on a sliding (Bell) curve that advances a pre-determined number of selectees to fill needed billets, and leave is accrued at 2.5 days per month, DOD wide. And yes we get punished for breaking rules and regulations, just like in any civilized society.
I wish I cared enough about your opinion to ask you to justify the statement “Discipline isn’t all goodâ€. Discipline to not over eat and get fat? Discipline to not lie? Discipline to go to work on time, in clean presentable clothes and be productive while you are at work (whether in an office environment or in the field)? Discipline to exemplify values of honor, courage, and commitment? Hooyah!! You little turd. Now go set the table, your mother is calling.
walking arsenal
Member
buy the AR cause if kerry gets into office you might not be able too get one when you get back out. .02
Thumper
Member
Cashwise, one built out AR = seven stripped Bushy lowers. Something to keep in mind.
Phantom Warrior
Member
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- Mar 7, 2003
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- 1,073
I am considering the brainwashing/discipline discussion closed. Please keep comments on topic. About life in the military, etc. Reread the first post if you have questions. Thanks.
PW
PW
Phantom Warrior
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2003
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- 1,073
RKCheung,
Someone mentioned the Marines a while back in this thread. Like I said then, I was originally considering the Marines. But I chose the Army for some financial reasons and because it looks like it would be easier for me to continue on as an Army Reservist than a Marine Reservist. if I'm tougher than everyone else I'll go try out for Ranger School or Special Forces (not likely).
P.S. Plus we only have THREE general orders.
Someone mentioned the Marines a while back in this thread. Like I said then, I was originally considering the Marines. But I chose the Army for some financial reasons and because it looks like it would be easier for me to continue on as an Army Reservist than a Marine Reservist. if I'm tougher than everyone else I'll go try out for Ranger School or Special Forces (not likely).
P.S. Plus we only have THREE general orders.
Mr. Mysterious
Member
All right, here is my background...then I'll give you my $.02.
I am an 11b, was a NG Split Op did my basic in C 1-50 @ Ft. Ben in 2000, and did my AIT the following summer B 2-19. I was an E5 before I decided to become an officer. I receive my commission this next summer and will most likely not continue as an infantryman any longer. I'll be aviation or MI. I love the Army and feel that it has been a great experience, hell, I can believe that I'm rolling up on my 5 year anniversary!
Ok, not to my advice...take it for what it's worth....
1) PT before you go even if you think that you are in shape.
2) If you smoke quit today. Non-smokers are a leg up both with the extra lung-capacity and that they don't have to quit cold turkey while in basic.
3) Make sure you personal situation at home (bills, family, gf, etc) is straight before you leave. It seems that more people went AWOL, or had psych problems from what was going on at home than anything else.
4) Don't go into basic thinking that you know everything, or even a lot. Those soldiers that entered thinking that basic training was a waste of time and thought that they should just skip it and go right to ranger bat were setting themselves up for failure.
5) If you want to be an officer get an OCS contract, don't worry about being enlisted first in order to garner respect as an officer. Your respect is earned by what you do in your unit, not the fact that you were enlisted (although it does help sometimes).
6) Relax, basic training isn't hard, even at Ft. Benning the home of the infantry. Just go with an open mind.
7) You said that your resume isn't good enough for OCS? As far as I know all that you need is to pass MEPS, Security Clearance, and Basic and you are fine as long as you have an OCS contract. It's a contract specifically for OCS, you go right after basic.
8) If you don't have it in your contract, chances are you won't see it. They do give Airborne after basic to reward those that excel, but if you are just an average joe and don't have it in your contract you probably won't see it. This doesn't mean that it is out of the question in the future, but just wanted to give you a heads up.
9) Did I mention making sure that your situation back home is squared away? That means that mom and dad doesn't call to check on you.
10) Don't do anything stupid at basic. Any ideas that you have to sneak something in, or do something you shouldn't has been done before. If you get caught it's bad news, just don't do it.
11) Be careful before you leave...that means stay healthy, and don't take any chances.
12) Do not drink in the hotel before you ship...you would be astounded at the number of people that get in trouble with this.
13) Don't plan on any passes while at the Ben. Infantry is OSUT, so it is one big basic training...there isn't a clear divider as to when basic ends and AIT starts.
14) When you go down range don't do anything that sets you apart from the other Joe's. Yes, excel at PT, but don't be that one soldier that wants to correct a Drill SGT. You put a big target on your back and you don't want that.
You'll have fun, and learn a lot. Infantry in the Army is such a paradox, you get the smartest high speed soldiers along with the ones that barely passed their ASVAB. It seems that there is no gray area...
I am an 11b, was a NG Split Op did my basic in C 1-50 @ Ft. Ben in 2000, and did my AIT the following summer B 2-19. I was an E5 before I decided to become an officer. I receive my commission this next summer and will most likely not continue as an infantryman any longer. I'll be aviation or MI. I love the Army and feel that it has been a great experience, hell, I can believe that I'm rolling up on my 5 year anniversary!
Ok, not to my advice...take it for what it's worth....
1) PT before you go even if you think that you are in shape.
2) If you smoke quit today. Non-smokers are a leg up both with the extra lung-capacity and that they don't have to quit cold turkey while in basic.
3) Make sure you personal situation at home (bills, family, gf, etc) is straight before you leave. It seems that more people went AWOL, or had psych problems from what was going on at home than anything else.
4) Don't go into basic thinking that you know everything, or even a lot. Those soldiers that entered thinking that basic training was a waste of time and thought that they should just skip it and go right to ranger bat were setting themselves up for failure.
5) If you want to be an officer get an OCS contract, don't worry about being enlisted first in order to garner respect as an officer. Your respect is earned by what you do in your unit, not the fact that you were enlisted (although it does help sometimes).
6) Relax, basic training isn't hard, even at Ft. Benning the home of the infantry. Just go with an open mind.
7) You said that your resume isn't good enough for OCS? As far as I know all that you need is to pass MEPS, Security Clearance, and Basic and you are fine as long as you have an OCS contract. It's a contract specifically for OCS, you go right after basic.
8) If you don't have it in your contract, chances are you won't see it. They do give Airborne after basic to reward those that excel, but if you are just an average joe and don't have it in your contract you probably won't see it. This doesn't mean that it is out of the question in the future, but just wanted to give you a heads up.
9) Did I mention making sure that your situation back home is squared away? That means that mom and dad doesn't call to check on you.
10) Don't do anything stupid at basic. Any ideas that you have to sneak something in, or do something you shouldn't has been done before. If you get caught it's bad news, just don't do it.
11) Be careful before you leave...that means stay healthy, and don't take any chances.
12) Do not drink in the hotel before you ship...you would be astounded at the number of people that get in trouble with this.
13) Don't plan on any passes while at the Ben. Infantry is OSUT, so it is one big basic training...there isn't a clear divider as to when basic ends and AIT starts.
14) When you go down range don't do anything that sets you apart from the other Joe's. Yes, excel at PT, but don't be that one soldier that wants to correct a Drill SGT. You put a big target on your back and you don't want that.
You'll have fun, and learn a lot. Infantry in the Army is such a paradox, you get the smartest high speed soldiers along with the ones that barely passed their ASVAB. It seems that there is no gray area...
Langenator
Member
bdiesch-
You did you BCT not 100 yards from where I'm sitting right now (C/1-61). And we still do dime/washer drills. Only the thing that you stick in the flash suppressor is now plastic. And we use pennies, because they cost less.
You can also do the drill with a washer, one about the size of a nickel or just a bit larger, placed directly on the barrel. That's how I learned in ROTC back in 1993.
You did you BCT not 100 yards from where I'm sitting right now (C/1-61). And we still do dime/washer drills. Only the thing that you stick in the flash suppressor is now plastic. And we use pennies, because they cost less.
You can also do the drill with a washer, one about the size of a nickel or just a bit larger, placed directly on the barrel. That's how I learned in ROTC back in 1993.
davec
Member
As a civilian candidate, you need to be accepted by a review board 1st, which has a rather competitive criteria. And be a graduate of a 4 year college. If you get selected then you qualify for a OCS contract, then away you go. But its not quite the same as asking for air assault school.
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/weekly/aa021702a.htm
I find it interesting that the Army is the only service that sends its civilian officer candidates to plain old boot camp 1st, while the Marines, Navy and Air Force skip that and have a self contained officer program.
Mr. Mysterious
Member
Davec, I stand corrected. I just read 601-91 which is the recruiting reg on OCS and WOC.
Langenator
Member
Not a DS. CO. I do have 12 Drill Sergeants who work for me, though.
red_devil1469
Member
Ah Sand Hill I remember her well . A co 1/50 End of '96 here.My experience is if you have high GT score be prepared to be 11H not 11C.When i was at Bragg, 1/504 PIR, we had HHC scouts with sniper teams.They got spots to sniper school every so often, but not regularly.Why not try SF.They will accept e-3 and e-4s now with good scores.
. A co 1/50 End of '96 here.My experience is if you have high GT score be prepared to be 11H not 11C.When i was at Bragg, 1/504 PIR, we had HHC scouts with sniper teams.They got spots to sniper school every so often, but not regularly.Why not try SF.They will accept e-3 and e-4s now with good scores.dog3
Member
What a great thread!
My 2cents;
Things I wished I would have done prior, (I joined up right away, late in life, because
I was getting old [27] and I thought we were on the war-path, this was the early 80s)
But you have a lot of time.
I admire you going infantry, 11B all the way, every day!
Many folks are scared of going infantry, because it isn't a good post-military "career path"
I say, don't discount the military as a career path. Infantry is what it really is all about.
As everyone else has said, physical conditioning. First and foremost. Run, alot.
The run some more.
Nothing in the civilian world is going to make you fully competent with a light machine gun,
like the M249 (which we didn't have) so don't bother. My marksmanship skills atrophied during training, we didn't get to shoot NEARLY enough, but that was then. Modern times it seems you have more access to combat veterans, so all of this may be different.
The run some more.
Check out the specs of weight for a full combat load in different theatres, you can look most
of this stuff up for the regular leg infantry. Build up a curling bar weight set to mimic the M249,
and some kind of rucksack and bags of sand to mimic a combat load, and run with it, then run with it a lot more, then run with it some more.
Get some proper military issue boots that fit, and wear them, a lot, get your feet used to them.
Do this on your own time, no one likes a wannabe, don't be a wannabe.
Eschew civilian sunglasses and such.
If you play organised sports in school, learn to scream, A lot, scream all every chance you get on the playing field. This will help keep you from loosing your voice after a week of basic. If you don't play team sports, start playing team sports, and train, train hard.
Study armor, get as familiar as you can with all armor and battlefield weapons systems. Build models if you have the time, had a fellow in my squad at my first duty station who was a nerd,
kinda useless who knew EVERYTHING about any piece of equipment likely to be encountered
on the contemporary battlefield. He built models and studied them. Knew what kind of terrain
could support what kind of stuff, and what the supply requirements and threat levels were for nearly everything. Damn handy knowlege.
Pushups, sit ups, running, more running. Drink lots of water every chance you get. Stop with soda and coffee, and anything other than water. push yourself hard.
learn as much general knowlege, (David McCauleys "How Things Work, V1,V11, the New How Things Work) as you can. If your math sucks, square it away. Learn to print fully legibly,
If you have any bigotry, or prejudical attitude towards others, square it away. EVERYONE
to some degree or another is a bigot, learn to sit on it. Practice being humble, work on it until
it becomes second nature. Study being level headed.
When you start training, you are going to be tossed into a big vat with every kind of person
"they" can find. Then they will dog you. Learn to choke down getting angry, learn to suck it up.
Work hard at being a friend to everyone. This is really important, the more prickish your comrades are, the harder you need to try to accept them. You depend on these pricks to
watch your back and to drag you out of harms way, and they depend on you for their lives,
their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, wives, husbands, children are all relying on you to bring them home. It's a heady responsibility. If you like them, it makes it easier to shoulder.
On the one hand, don't be a show off, if you know stuff they don't, (because you studied your armor, for instance) don't be a jerk about it. Don't argue. On the one hand, be humble, on the other hand, grasp at every opportunity at leadership. If you fail, try again.
Contrary to what others might say, Volunteer for EVERTHING. Regardless of how p*ssed off, how tired, how demoralised you are, stick your hand up as soon as you hear words like "I need some, , , " Don't be a slimeball and wait until you hear what the mission is, just DO IT.
Any chance you have to get the much loathed and universally despised kitchen duty, take it.
Watch the cooks, learn to do what they do. They may come a time, when you might be able to quicky whip up a hot meal for your comrades, and boy, is that a really welcomed skill when it
is needed.
Listen carefully to your Drill Sargents. They care about you, and their job is to do their best
to make sure you can accomplish the mission and get home alive. Do as you are told.
Me personally, I have a hard time doing what I am told for the most part, I never had a hard
time with this in the military (in a training cycle) because I knew the point was to save my
life in combat, and to save my comrades lives.
A lot of what you will do won't make a lot of sense, but the point really is to save your life
in combat. Right now, you may not think that finding that last bit of filth under the rim of
the latrine has anything to do with anything, but you'd be wrong.
If you are at all squared away, your comrades are going to look to you for clues as to what they
should do when things don't add up, or make sense. Folks, by and large, are herd animals. When
things go a little nutz, they look for folks to take charge, so they don't have to. Take charge in training as often as you can. Try everything you can, screw up in training as much as you can, so that you don't screw up on the battlefield.
When i say do as you are told, I don't mean be a little b*ttkisser, I mean listen to your orders, and
execute them. When possible, or even when not possible, make mistakes, in the vein of raiding
other training units and other mischief. Accept your punishment when caught,
and NEVER EVER EVER EVER give up your comrades after you have been caught.
Go to this page: http://basic.armystudyguide.com/general/code_of_conduct.htm
and LEARN IT BY HEART, study on it, meditate on it.
Have as much fun as you can, don't be afraid to make mistakes, the time to make mistakes is
in training, your drills will square you away, don't worry, they will take care of you.
If you are a person of faith, any faith at all, go to your church, or place of worship, seek out
your elders for counsel. There will be church elders who are combat veterans, there always are.
They will have some tips for you.
You will never be able to get along with everyone, no one can. But be professional in disagreements and NEVER take it personally. A lot of fatal mistakes on the battlefield
result from anger based decisions, or are based in disrespectful conduct.
Do not fear your enemy, but do respect your enemy.
Some of your drills will try to be your buddy, and some of them will be unfreak'n believable
bastards. Listen to all of them. Respect them, they work harder than you do, and they
are really tough, and no one is on the drill trail by accident. They are there, because they care,
and they want to save your life.
I've been alive long enough to be called granpa, and one of the most proudest moments in my life
was during graduation from infantry school, when a drill that I simply couldn't stand, that I (and
many others) had had a terrible time with, during the final inspection, told me "Dog3, I'd be
proud to serve with you anytime". He didn't say than to anyone else. Though I couldn't stand
this guy, to this day, I'd follow him to the gates of hell itself, and I have some idea what
that really means.
My 2cents;
Things I wished I would have done prior, (I joined up right away, late in life, because
I was getting old [27] and I thought we were on the war-path, this was the early 80s)
But you have a lot of time.
I admire you going infantry, 11B all the way, every day!
Many folks are scared of going infantry, because it isn't a good post-military "career path"
I say, don't discount the military as a career path. Infantry is what it really is all about.
As everyone else has said, physical conditioning. First and foremost. Run, alot.
The run some more.
Nothing in the civilian world is going to make you fully competent with a light machine gun,
like the M249 (which we didn't have) so don't bother. My marksmanship skills atrophied during training, we didn't get to shoot NEARLY enough, but that was then. Modern times it seems you have more access to combat veterans, so all of this may be different.
The run some more.
Check out the specs of weight for a full combat load in different theatres, you can look most
of this stuff up for the regular leg infantry. Build up a curling bar weight set to mimic the M249,
and some kind of rucksack and bags of sand to mimic a combat load, and run with it, then run with it a lot more, then run with it some more.
Get some proper military issue boots that fit, and wear them, a lot, get your feet used to them.
Do this on your own time, no one likes a wannabe, don't be a wannabe.
Eschew civilian sunglasses and such.
If you play organised sports in school, learn to scream, A lot, scream all every chance you get on the playing field. This will help keep you from loosing your voice after a week of basic. If you don't play team sports, start playing team sports, and train, train hard.
Study armor, get as familiar as you can with all armor and battlefield weapons systems. Build models if you have the time, had a fellow in my squad at my first duty station who was a nerd,
kinda useless who knew EVERYTHING about any piece of equipment likely to be encountered
on the contemporary battlefield. He built models and studied them. Knew what kind of terrain
could support what kind of stuff, and what the supply requirements and threat levels were for nearly everything. Damn handy knowlege.
Pushups, sit ups, running, more running. Drink lots of water every chance you get. Stop with soda and coffee, and anything other than water. push yourself hard.
learn as much general knowlege, (David McCauleys "How Things Work, V1,V11, the New How Things Work) as you can. If your math sucks, square it away. Learn to print fully legibly,
If you have any bigotry, or prejudical attitude towards others, square it away. EVERYONE
to some degree or another is a bigot, learn to sit on it. Practice being humble, work on it until
it becomes second nature. Study being level headed.
When you start training, you are going to be tossed into a big vat with every kind of person
"they" can find. Then they will dog you. Learn to choke down getting angry, learn to suck it up.
Work hard at being a friend to everyone. This is really important, the more prickish your comrades are, the harder you need to try to accept them. You depend on these pricks to
watch your back and to drag you out of harms way, and they depend on you for their lives,
their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, wives, husbands, children are all relying on you to bring them home. It's a heady responsibility. If you like them, it makes it easier to shoulder.
On the one hand, don't be a show off, if you know stuff they don't, (because you studied your armor, for instance) don't be a jerk about it. Don't argue. On the one hand, be humble, on the other hand, grasp at every opportunity at leadership. If you fail, try again.
Contrary to what others might say, Volunteer for EVERTHING. Regardless of how p*ssed off, how tired, how demoralised you are, stick your hand up as soon as you hear words like "I need some, , , " Don't be a slimeball and wait until you hear what the mission is, just DO IT.
Any chance you have to get the much loathed and universally despised kitchen duty, take it.
Watch the cooks, learn to do what they do. They may come a time, when you might be able to quicky whip up a hot meal for your comrades, and boy, is that a really welcomed skill when it
is needed.
Listen carefully to your Drill Sargents. They care about you, and their job is to do their best
to make sure you can accomplish the mission and get home alive. Do as you are told.
Me personally, I have a hard time doing what I am told for the most part, I never had a hard
time with this in the military (in a training cycle) because I knew the point was to save my
life in combat, and to save my comrades lives.
A lot of what you will do won't make a lot of sense, but the point really is to save your life
in combat. Right now, you may not think that finding that last bit of filth under the rim of
the latrine has anything to do with anything, but you'd be wrong.
If you are at all squared away, your comrades are going to look to you for clues as to what they
should do when things don't add up, or make sense. Folks, by and large, are herd animals. When
things go a little nutz, they look for folks to take charge, so they don't have to. Take charge in training as often as you can. Try everything you can, screw up in training as much as you can, so that you don't screw up on the battlefield.
When i say do as you are told, I don't mean be a little b*ttkisser, I mean listen to your orders, and
execute them. When possible, or even when not possible, make mistakes, in the vein of raiding
other training units and other mischief. Accept your punishment when caught,
and NEVER EVER EVER EVER give up your comrades after you have been caught.
Go to this page: http://basic.armystudyguide.com/general/code_of_conduct.htm
and LEARN IT BY HEART, study on it, meditate on it.
Have as much fun as you can, don't be afraid to make mistakes, the time to make mistakes is
in training, your drills will square you away, don't worry, they will take care of you.
If you are a person of faith, any faith at all, go to your church, or place of worship, seek out
your elders for counsel. There will be church elders who are combat veterans, there always are.
They will have some tips for you.
You will never be able to get along with everyone, no one can. But be professional in disagreements and NEVER take it personally. A lot of fatal mistakes on the battlefield
result from anger based decisions, or are based in disrespectful conduct.
Do not fear your enemy, but do respect your enemy.
Some of your drills will try to be your buddy, and some of them will be unfreak'n believable
bastards. Listen to all of them. Respect them, they work harder than you do, and they
are really tough, and no one is on the drill trail by accident. They are there, because they care,
and they want to save your life.
I've been alive long enough to be called granpa, and one of the most proudest moments in my life
was during graduation from infantry school, when a drill that I simply couldn't stand, that I (and
many others) had had a terrible time with, during the final inspection, told me "Dog3, I'd be
proud to serve with you anytime". He didn't say than to anyone else. Though I couldn't stand
this guy, to this day, I'd follow him to the gates of hell itself, and I have some idea what
that really means.
A CO. My bad LOL
Well, looking back over the whole thread, I feel I can offer a little advice. (Ignoring my little digression earlier). I am not a CO, nor have I been in for 15-20 years, but unlike most people I have been through basic twice (once in the Army, in 94; and once in the Navy, in 99). Heres my take.
You are gonna have two choices for your 8 weeks. (Well, 3, if you count being a dirtbag and doing lots of pushups as a viable option).
Choice 1: (This was me in Army BCT). Fly low. Stay under the radar. I made the mistake of being noticed (in a negative way) on the second day by a female DS. I was a ???? boy for the first 4 weeks. If something happened, I was *involved*. Thats not a fun life. So after that I maintained a low profile. I was squared away, yes, but I tried to not be noticed. Do what you have to do, even excell in somethings. But as my senior RDC (Navy) said on the third day, "If graduation day rolls around and I dont know your name, thats a good thing!"
Choice 2: (This was me in Navy Basic). This is a more rewarding option, but much MUCH harder. In Navy basic, I stepped up and was the RCPO (Recruit Chief Petty Officer - the recruit in charge of the division, same as the platoon leader in BCT). I enjoyed it, it was challenging and rewarding. But on the flip side, if you mess up youre gonna get smoked. If someone in your platoon messes up, youre gonna get smoked. You are responsible for that platoon, and all those individuals on theyre way to becoming soldiers and that can be tough. But, if you excell in that position you can be meritoriously advanced (at least in the navy, i think in the army too), and advancement is KEY in the military.
Well, looking back over the whole thread, I feel I can offer a little advice. (Ignoring my little digression earlier). I am not a CO, nor have I been in for 15-20 years, but unlike most people I have been through basic twice (once in the Army, in 94; and once in the Navy, in 99). Heres my take.
You are gonna have two choices for your 8 weeks. (Well, 3, if you count being a dirtbag and doing lots of pushups as a viable option).
Choice 1: (This was me in Army BCT). Fly low. Stay under the radar. I made the mistake of being noticed (in a negative way) on the second day by a female DS. I was a ???? boy for the first 4 weeks. If something happened, I was *involved*. Thats not a fun life. So after that I maintained a low profile. I was squared away, yes, but I tried to not be noticed. Do what you have to do, even excell in somethings. But as my senior RDC (Navy) said on the third day, "If graduation day rolls around and I dont know your name, thats a good thing!"
Choice 2: (This was me in Navy Basic). This is a more rewarding option, but much MUCH harder. In Navy basic, I stepped up and was the RCPO (Recruit Chief Petty Officer - the recruit in charge of the division, same as the platoon leader in BCT). I enjoyed it, it was challenging and rewarding. But on the flip side, if you mess up youre gonna get smoked. If someone in your platoon messes up, youre gonna get smoked. You are responsible for that platoon, and all those individuals on theyre way to becoming soldiers and that can be tough. But, if you excell in that position you can be meritoriously advanced (at least in the navy, i think in the army too), and advancement is KEY in the military.
Phantom Warrior
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2003
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- 1,073
How is your eventual MOS (11B, 11C, or 11H) determined? I'd prefer to just be 11B, since mortars and mechanized don't particularly interest me. Is it based on your GT score or something else or what?
Sleeping Dog
Member
Sgt Knuckledragger: Private Phantom! Pick up that mortar and hump it 20 klicks to the next objective.
Pvt Phantom: I'd love to, Sarge, but I'm 11B, not 11C, so I don't have to hump no stinkin' mortar stuff all over the freakin' boonies!
Sgt Knuckledragger: I take your point, private, so before you pick up the mortar, give me a thousand push-ups, then hump the mortar, then report to the mess sergeant, he can use your help.
Pvt Phantom: But sergeant, it's not that I don't want to help, but all I like are light weapons; mortars and mechanized don't particularly interest me.
Sgt Knuckledragger: Private, does my boot in your butt interest you? You WILL be interested in every piece of equipment and every tactic that keeps you alive.
Sometimes, your MOS just doesn't matter
Regards.
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