Rifleman AQT: Yakima, WA

Status
Not open for further replies.

Koobuh

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
325
Well, my father and I just got back from Yakima, where we attended the RWVA Appleseed shoot being held there this past weekend.
Yes, this is the same Appleseed you've read about if you get Shotgun news, and read the page facing the ad for Fred's M14 stocks.

I have to say, it was well worth taking Friday and Monday off, driving from Bellingham to Yakima (over 6 hours by the most direct route), staying in a lousy motel :cuss: , and enduring a somewhat chintzy range.

For those who don't know, the Revolutionary War Veteran's Association (RWVA, www.rwva.org) has been holding rifle classes (the Appleseed program) for several months with the stated purpose of creating an ever-expanding number of 'riflemen', to Save America (TM).
It's a rather roundabout way of achieving that end, but it's fun, educational, and can be a source of intense pride in achievement.

The course of fire was conducted at 25 meters, at reduced targets scaled for 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards. Shooting at this range may SEEM easy, but trust me; it's not. The targets are TINY, and you are shooting offhand with a sling, in positions, rather than off of a bench. That was the killer for most everyone- by the end of the weekend I could hardly lift myself out of the prone position due to fatigue and muscle strain. Altogether I must have shot over 250 rounds, most from prone; my trigger finger was so stiff this morning that I could hardly bend it.
Oh yes, positions. The AQT is shot from three; standing, kneeling or sitting, and prone. All may be shot without a sling, but a sling is absolutely recommended. If you go to a shoot they will show you how to use it in the loop (USGI sling will do this, most others won't), hasty, and hasty-hasty configurations.
One thing they emphasize in instruction is finding your natural point of aim before beginning to shoot. That is, settle into your position, get the rifle on target, and then... close your eyes for a moment. Your body settles and relaxes, and then... reopen your eyes. Your rifle will either be on target or off of it. If it's off horizontally, shift your body until it is in the vertical plane of the target, as your breathing should be able to adjust for the vertical difference. Recheck and adjust as necessary until it's correct; then begin firing.

Of course, the most important thing they will teach you is the 6 steps of firing a shot.
1. Align the sights (iron sights, that is)
2. Create the sight picture (align sights with the target)
3. Breathe in, breathe out until the sights are on target; then, a respiratory pause
4a. Focus your eye on the front sight
4b. Mentally, you try to keep the front sight on the target
5. Squeeze the trigger
6. Follow through; create a mental snapshot of the sight picture at the moment you fired so you can call the shot. Don't release the trigger until you have called the shot, to avoid 'slapping' the trigger


I did not shoot this course well. I am a bench shooter, and will probably be going back to the bench for the majority of my shooting. However, my pride was seriously wounded by how badly I shot. Part of it was the equipment. I was using a Finnish M39, and was basically unable to cycle the rifle fast enough to shoot the timed AQT- loading ammunition in a timely fashion was also very difficult. The other part was my own physical condition, admittedly poor by any standard. Both of these problems can be addressed, and I hope to attend another Appleseed in the future to earn a Rifleman patch.
Of course, I don't think I will be driving all the way to Yakima to do this.

Learn from our experiences in this matter. :)
Don't stay at the Motel 6, it's noisy, the same price as nicer motels just up the street, and doesn't have WiFi or a decent cable package.
Do eat at the Waffles Cafe, across from the Clarion on 1st Street. Great food, amazing service, reasonable prices.
The Sun Valley Shooting Park is amazing- great facility, but dusty as a tomb.


For those interested in ever attending an RWVA event, you can find a list of events at: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=421.0
The list is short at the moment, but will be growing. I understand there are already 5 more shoots planned for Washington, Oregon and Idaho alone before next summer, with many more scattered around the country.
The RWVA forums are an excellent resource for what to bring, networking, etc., but I would like to emphasize a few things.

To bring to an Appleseed shoot:
1. A learning attitude. Humility, a deflated ego, whatever it takes for you to learn from the instructors. They are sacrificing a lot as unpaid volunteers to do these clinics.
2. Hydration. Water AND sports rehydrator drinks if possible. You'll be out all day in the sun, wind, etc.
3. Semiauto magazine-fed rifle. Bolt guns can be fun, but make sure you can feed it reliably and quickly, and cycle the action without breaking shoulder contact in prone. A .22 is not verboten- I'd almost consider a 10/22 or similar to be ideal for this sort of class.
4. Reliable, well tested ammo. I had a lot of trouble with primers blowing back in my M39. Turns out it was a firing pin spring problem, but I was wishing I had taken ammo I had experience with.
5. Ground cover. We brought a tarp and a rug remnant, and I was wishing for more. The shooting site was covered in gravel, and would have been impossible to use without something to keep the body off the ground.
6. A GOOD sling. I used an old SKS sling on my M39, and had a lot of trouble keeping it from slipping around on my arm. A USGI sling will save you a lot of trouble at the clinic (Fred is selling them at the shoots as long as he has extras), as long as it will fit on your rifle.
7. Food. Lunch is 1/2 hour long, bring something to clean your hands off too.
8. Know what your sight adjustments will do, in minutes of angle (essentially 1" at 100 yards). Your goal is to shoot 1" at 25 yards, but it has to be on target to count. Sight your rifle in before you go to the shoot, to save time. Scopes are allowed, BTW> ;) Oh yes; for shooting at 25 meters, adjust your zero for 200 meters (if using a centerfire rifle)- that was nearly perfect in my experience.

Also, consider trying the "Freds Rifleman 25-Meter Targets w/Freds Guide to Becoming a Rifleman" combo from Fred's M14 Stocks: http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp
This will give you a leg-up on the course, and may even earn you a Rifleman badge on day 1.

Appleseed shoots cost $40 for one day (Saturday) or $70 for the weekend- send the money as a MO or check by mail, with a SASE if you want to be notified of receipt. I recommend trying for the whole weekend to get the most benefit from the clinic. After the first day I was feeling pretty down and ticked off, but the second day of work made everything worth it.

Oh, and Fred? Sweetest guy in the world. Don't take the passion in his articles for anger; it really is passion, and he's a man worth meeting if only for his opening speech about April 19, 1775.
 
Go to an appleseed......

Awesome post......Thumbs up for the Appleseed Program. I have been to two and it is excellent no nonsense training !


BTW.... they are looking for locations to host shoots. If you have land or can get access to a range for a weekend they will bring the instructors to you, so if there is not a location close to you contact them and set it up !

After traveling about 10 hours one way for each of my trips I have wised up and have helped to coordinate a shoot in Orlando Florida the last week of January......Any Florida or Georgia shooters gonna come down and shoot near Mickey Mouse with me?
 
Appleseed is a Good Thing

Gotta add a +1 on the value of the Appleseed shoot!!

And a +1on the need for an autoloader for this kind of shooting. I took my nice bolt .243--which only holds 5 rounds (4 in the mag + 1 in the chamber) and COULD NOT reload the mag fast enough to be of any use in the timed drills.

OTOH, I had no trouble at all hitting the tiniest of the targets, but my rifle is basically a target gun which does well under 1 moa, and which I know how to use. For this shoot I installed a military sling, and for an Appleseed this was a godsend.

In the non-timed drills I managed to earn a Rifleman patch, of which I'm proud. And I learned some things about shooting. All in all, a very worthwhile experience, and money well spent.

The ideal rifle for an Appleseed shoot would be a semi-auto M14. Of course, these are only available new from Springfield, starting at about $1500. The high shooter @ my Appleseed had one, as did several other shooters. But others had other guns--There were a number of M1's, some AK's, a 10/22 or 2, all of which were successful. One person used an SKS.

ALL of the bolt guns present had trouble with the timed drills. Didn't observe any pumps or lever-actions--an accurate one of those, with an easy-to-reload-magazine, would probably have done OK.

Anybody going to an Appleseed--it is well worth your while--should bring a shooting mat or tarp or piece of carpet or some such, plus a shooting jacket with padded elbows. The prone position chews up your elbows something fierce.

So, go to an Appleseed! At the very worst, you get to spend a weekend shooting, with like-minded people. :)
 
I went to my first Appleseed earlier this summer, and it was fantastic!

Fred and the other instructors are passionate, caring, and knowledgeable. There was also great camraderie to be had with my fellow shooters.

I heartily recommend attendance!
 
Interested? Texas is coming Oct 28th and 29th

Two days, $70
About all the ammo you can shoot
learn how to shoot a rifle well and correctly from basic positions.

For $70, how can you go wrong?

www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=811.0

You are running out of time to pre-register, but even if you decide on the morning of the 28th, we'll find room for you on the line.

This is the course of fire on Saturday:

1. 20 Round Classification
2. 20 Round Classification
3. 5 Sighters
4. 5 Sighters
5. 5 Sighters
6. 40 Round qd-AQT
7. 10 Rounds prone practice
8. 10 Rounds prone with sling practice
8. 10 Rounds sitting practice
9. 10 Rounds standing practice
10. Ball-n-dummy
11. 40 Round rapid fire qd-AQT
12. 40 Round rapid fire qd-AQT

This the course of fire on Sunday:
1. 20 Round Classification
2. Ball-n-dummy from prone
3. 10 rounds Sitting, stand up after two shots; NPOA drill
4. 10 rounds Single fire standing... walk away from line between shots...NPOA drill
5. 10 rounds Standing in 2 minutes (compare groups)
6. 12 rounds, mag change drill, 6 targets, two shots into each target including the mag change.
7. 24 rounds Rapid fire: 4 shots in 12 seconds or less , repeated 6 times into 1" square

100 Yard Range
1. 5 shots at 100 yards, sights set at 200 meters...transition target
2. 5 shots at 100 yards, sights set at 200 meters...transition target
3. 5 shots at 100 yards, sights at 300 meters....transition target
4. 5 shots at 100 yards, sights at 400 meters....transition target
5. 40 round rapid fire AQT at 100 yards....


200 Yard Range
1. 5 rounds at simulated 1400 yard target
2. 10 rounds shoot and scoot (firing done at 200 prone, 150 standing, 100 supported prone

Topics discussed:
1. Six steps of firing the shot.
2. prone position
3. sitting position
4. standing position
5. sling usage, hasty hasty, hasty, loop
6. npoa
7. call the shot
8. talking targets
9. dragging wood...trigger finger
10. rapid fire, rifleman's cadence
11. mag changes
12. barrel maintenance
13. inches/minutes/ clicks
14. come ups
15. doping wind, Fred's simplified rule
16. adjusting sights
17. Six o'clock holds, Center holds
18. Target identification
19. Range determination...front sight width.
20. Cheek weld

That is a lot of information for a two day program and only $70.
 
Ditto all the positive feed back for the appelseed. I too can not recommend on of attending one of these enough. Fred and his instructors really have a passion for educating and improving. I plan to attend another one and make rifleman so I can sew my patch on.

Good thread...

Ss
 
Forgot 2 things!

In addition to my post above: Forgot to say that those with AR's did just fine also.

And a VERY worthy addition to yr kit would be a set of skateboarders' knee & elbow pads. You start some of the timed prone stages from a standing position, and the faster you can hit a prone the more time you have for shooting. The high shooter @ my Appleseed had a technique of standing in a crouch, and basically diving onto his mat, while the rest of us were easing ourselves down.
 
Koobuh, Hi! nice to see a local on this board. I live in Lynden. Are you a member of Custer Sportsmans club? They have some fun shoots, plus you don't have to drive through the desert to get there. I was at Sun Valley for an instructors conference last July. Talk about HOT!!!!

http://www.custersportsmensclub.com
 
Dang...I did 6 months TDY in Yakistan...then they go and do an Appleseen shoot while I'm busy training a unit at Ft Lewis...grrrrr....
 
"Are you a member of Custer Sportsmans club?"

In good standing. :cool:

In fact, I'm going out there this afternoon, and probably tomorrow as well, schedule permitting.

Smokeyjoe, how much ammo did you end up using? I brought nearly 400 rounds, but only used about 300. Part of that was that I kept getting timed-out with ammo left over.
 
Ammo consumed

Koobuh--About the same here in the ammo supplies department. I felt a little silly, watching everyone else popping open spam cans of milsurp ammo while I'd made up target-grade handloads, but frankly, my target rifle and handloads tuned for it made for easier bullseyes.

Now, if I'd had a M1A, aka M14, with a match bbl and tuned handloads, and 10-round mags, then I'd have had the best of all possible worlds, but what the hey. My Ruger Mk II Target didn't cost anywhere near the going price for an M14.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top