RMR 124gn matchwinners (truncated cone)

[sequins]

Hi guys!

I just ordered some RMR 124gn FMJ TC (matchwinners with truncated cones) and I'm looking for CFE pistol data in particular.

What charge weights and lengths are you guys getting best results with (CFE if you have any data, but it's all interesting)

I was thinking I'd start with 5.0, 5.1, and 5.2gn at 1.100" COAL. I use 5.2gn with a FMJ RN at 1.150" COAL but these RMRs look like they want to seat deeper. My factory data says 4.9 - 5.5gn charge range for a 124gn FMJ RN.

Jake from RMR replied to me within 10 minutes, the night before christmas eve no less, advising 1.120" COAL (no charge specified, I just asked about functional COAL) but said he occassionally loads shorter for guns with short chambers.

I'm loading for quite a few handguns, two carbines, and occassionally a friend needs some ammo to shoot in whatever so I'm trying to have a load that works in anything. Does 1.100" sound like a good length for that?

Thanks guys, Merry Christmas!

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I can’t help yo7 with load data but many here use BE86 with them. I don’t know how it compares to CFE pistol, but it makes for a nice shooting combo.

 

[sequins]

I'd be happy to give BE-86 a shot, thanks for the advice. Is that generally regarded as "the combo?"

 

[LiveLife]

at 1.150" COAL but these RMRs look like they want to seat deeper.

You need to use the barrel to determine the max OAL length and feed the rounds from the magazine to determine reliable working OAL

As to working OAL, perhaps this reference thread will help determining working OAL for your barrel using RMR 124 gr FP Match Winner - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11077568

• 1.150" - KKM 40-9 conversion barrel
• 1.140" - M&P Shield factory barrel
  
• 1.095" - Tactical Kinetics conversion barrel
• 1.085" - Taurus PT-809 factory barrel
• 1.075" - Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel

I'm loading for quite a few handguns, two carbines, and occassionally a friend needs some ammo to shoot in whatever so I'm trying to have a load that works in anything. Does 1.100" sound like a good length for that?

If you are loading for multiple firearms, you need to determine the max working OAL for each barrel and use the shortest length to reliably work in all firearms.

As to powder, CFE Pistol relatively slower burning powder and better suited for full power loads. If you are loading lighter target loads, I would suggest W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster burning powders.

I'm loading for ... two carbines

Keep in mind, carbines using blowback action can be very sooty from slower burning, especially loaded to lower powder charges and I have gotten better results (cleaner burning, less sooty cases) from faster burning powders.

 

[LiveLife]

I was thinking I'd start with 5.0, 5.1, and 5.2gn at 1.100" COAL. I use 5.2gn with a FMJ RN at 1.150" COAL

My factory data says 4.9 - 5.5gn charge range for a 124gn FMJ RN.

You are using RN load data for FP bullet.

• 124 gr Berry's HBRN-TP CFE Pistol COL 1.150" Start 4.9 gr (1,006 fps) 27,300 PSI - Max 5.5 gr (1,120 fps) 33,800 PSI

And note max charge drop for FMJ with shorter OAL/COL.

• 125 gr Sierra FMJ CFE Pistol COL 1.090" Start 4.6 gr (1,009 fps) 26,900 PSI - Max 5.1 gr (1,118 fps) 33,000 PS

And load data for HP bullet which better matches bullet seating depth of FP bullet

• 125 gr Hornady HAP CFE Pistol COL 1.069" Start 4.2 gr (956 fps) 25,600 PSI - Max 4.8 gr (1,096 fps) 33,400 PSI

As a general rule, when conducting powder work up after determining working OAL, if I am using bullet that is different than listed in the published load data, I will reference the more conservative load data as I can always go up.

If your working OAL is around 1.100" and you are starting out with 5.0 gr of CFE Pistol, you are essentially starting at max charge for HP/FMJ load data.

Personally, since you are loading for multiple firearms, I would start at 4.4 gr and work up to 4.8 gr if shortest working OAL was 1.080" using RMR 124 gr FP MW bullet.

Of course, if your chrono velocity is lower than expected, you can always go higher.

 

[Erief0g]

I use 1.075.
Shadow 2 and older xds are shortest oal's and this works for them so it's what I load all mine to.

Don't use your powder so no help there

 

[LiveLife]

I use 1.075.
Shadow 2 and older xds are shortest oal's and this works for them so it's what I load all mine to.

Me too for newest Lone Wolf barrel with very short leade (I can't imagine having to load any shorter for RMR 124 gr FP MW).

So unless you have barrels requiring shorter OAL, 1.075" should work even for shorter leade barrels.

 

[santacruzdave]

Before I got some BE86 I loaded some MWers with CFE-Pistol. Here's the result

RMR FMJ-FP 124gr. "MW" 4.9 CFE-Pistol Mixed Brass COL 1.080 S&B SPP M9A1 notes say "not as accurate as 5.0 and 5.1
Hi Vel = 1048 Low = 991 Ave = 1015 Spread = 57 SD = 21

Shot some 5.0 and 5.1 with CFE-P, but did not crono them, same gun M9A1; Cloud cover prevented crono from working.

Notes say:

4.9gr. Shot off hand not as accurate as 5.0 and 5.1. Good solid functioning load.
5.0gr. Shot off hand more accurate than the 4.9g loading, shooting more will tell if this or the 5.1 loading is more accurate
5.1gr. Shot off hand, have to shoot more of these seem to shoot a bit low, but not sure.

 

[LiveLife]

Before I got some BE86 I loaded some MWers with CFE-Pistol

Thanks for the test data. So you didn't stay with CFE Pistol and moved on to other powders?

How did CFE Pistol loads accuracy compare to other powders?

Any carbine testing?

 

[santacruzdave]

Sorry no carbine testing. I bought a lot of CFE-P during the dark years. I switched to BE-86 after seeing a lot of folks get excellent accuracy. My experience with upper mid to full power loads is that BE-86 is more accurate in all my 9mm pistols. M9A1, SP-01, XD-9 Tactical, and a RIA 1911. I've been using Sport Pistol for "target" loads, and BE-86 for equivalent SD practice loads.

Recently I've found an accurate load using CFE-P and ACME coated 122gr, TP-NLG. Very happy about that as I thought I'd be sitting on a few pounds of CFE-P for ever. So I'll try some steel challenge with this loading. So many powders, so little time!

 

[sequins]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was struggling to find load data for TC bullets in 124gn /w CFE Pistol and knowing it prefers to run towards max so I want to start in the middle and work towards maximum.

Sounds like as low as 1.065" might be in order to ensure function in all chambers on the market so if that's the case I'll reduce charge accordingly. Maybe 4.6-4.7 will be my target load. I'm not afraid to pull 20 bullets and that's my batch size for new loads in 9mm so if I'm looking hot at 4.7 I'll hold there.

I've got a chrono so I just need a good jumping off point so thanks again for all the advice!

 

[LiveLife]

I've got a chrono so I just need a good jumping off point

Very good

 

[mdi]

Hint for newer reloader; find load data in your reloading manual before components are purchased. Many fewer headaches and time lost.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was struggling to find load data for TC bullets in 124gn /w CFE Pistol and knowing it prefers to run towards max so I want to start in the middle and work towards maximum.

Hint for all reloaders: Hodgdon online data for 9mm includes 124 AND 125gr bullets. For those of us that use bullets for which no published data exists, the 125 data has proved reliable for me when using 124 RMR MWs.
I establish my Max and Working overall lengths for all my guns first and then use the minimum value. For my guns with the TC I use 1.120.
I’ve not used CFE P with the MWs yet, but I have loaded Hornady XTP 124s a while ago. That load was 5.1gr. CFE at 1.150” (for the intended gun) DW pointman and was avg 1064fps. With your shorter COLs you may be in +P territory. Good luck and be safe - post your results?

 

[Dudedog]

Not the match winner but for what it's worth
Was looking for a 125 PF load with the first one
(mixed range brass, S+B SP, 5" 9mm 1911)
String: 2
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:33:39 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1040
Low Vel: 1013
Ave Vel: 1031
Ext Spread: 27
Std Dev: 10
4.7 CFE-P124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1013 125.612 282.515
1040 128.96 297.776
1038 128.712 296.632
1033 128.092 293.781
1035 128.34 294.92

5.0gr CFE-P old RMR HP (not the MPR)
String: 9
Date: 7/1/2017
Time: 10:04:05 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1138
Low Vel: 1101
Ave Vel: 1120
Ext Spread: 37
Std Dev: 16
Old RMR hp 5.0 CFE-P
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1106 137.144 336.77
1125 139.5 348.44
1138 141.112 356.54
1134 140.616 354.038
1101 136.524 333.732

All guns are different,
I got a little bit better vels on top with BE86 but my pistols shot better with CFE-P,
of course YMMV.

 

[Skgreen]

THR not responsible, use at your own risk:

PC9 Carbine
124 MW - 1.110 - 5.6 of BE86 (Currently experimenting w/max charge of Sport Pistol)
115 MW - 1.110 - Max charge of Sport Pistol.

The BE86 load was very accurate. I just prefer SP and have plenty on hand.

 

[Dudedog]

One comment of BE86, I haven't shot a lot of it but I had one lot that was quite a bit "hotter" than the next lot.
About .2 of a gr hotter...
If you change lots make sure you work up again if you are loading max loads. (always smart with any powder when changing lots)
With that much swing I figure my first lot was on the fast side of the allowed range and my next lot was on the slow side.
I think if either lot had been closer to the middle off the allowed range I wouldn;t have seen as much difference.
My 3rd lot fell somewhere between the first two.

 

[Col. Cornelius]

I load the RMR 124gn FMJ TC with 5.4gr BE-86, and either CCI500 or WSP.
To function reliably in several different 9mm's (including a KKM match barrel), I settled on an coal = 1.080".

Some of my average chronograph results:
1,319 fps from a 16.12" barrel Ruger PCC
1,150 fps from a 4.25" barrel S&W M&P
1,047 fps from a 3.1" barrel P365