RMR 124gr JHP Short OAL and Powder Charge concerns

[UnkleReign]

Hello, I have been consuming a lot of info from this forum and finally couldn't find something to answer my question by just searching so the time has come to ask. Appreciate everyone that takes time to help.

Quick summary of the question: I am trying to reach 1100 FPS using RMR 124gr JHP for all my 9mm handguns but also use them with my Shadow 2 which requires a very short OAL (1.050) and gets the bullet seating very close to the powder at 4.1 grains of VV N320. RMR website states "It is recommended that you shoot them at 1100 FPS or more to get reliable expansion for self defense or hunting purposes." In order for me to reach a higher FPS I will have to increase powder charge to 4.2 or more (especially for my Glock 19) and the bullet looks very close to the powder. Is it safe to do so without looking into other powder/load data recipes or creating separate loads?

I have been regularly loading 124gr RN FMJ with 9mm at the shortest length determined by my Shadow 2 and use that OAL of 1.110-1.120 with 4.2grs of N320 for all my 9mm handguns to make life a bit easier when loading, they work great. Recently, I wanted to try loading RMR 124gr JHP MPR in the same manner but also use as defensive rounds if needed. These however require an OAL of 1.050 to pass plunk on my Shadow 2. So far I have worked up a similar JHP load from 3.9grs to 4.1grs of N320 and get an average of 1085 FPS in 50 degree weather. (I mention weather since I read warmer temperature will increase velocity and in SoCal is doesn't get much cooler, most of the year it's 60-80 degrees. So, if true, 1085FPS is on the lower end) Problem is my Glock 19 has an average of 1066FPS which will require even more powder to reach 1100FPS at that OAL.

I probably won't be shooting them through my Shadow 2 as defensive round since that's not my first choice for home/self defense so the current PF is fine for that specific firearm but I'd like to have the option for my Glock 19 or other 9mm handguns. I would prefer to use one single load per bullet for all my 9mm handguns.

Another option which I want to avoid at the moment is to just make separate batches for the Shadow 2 and my other 9mm handguns since my other 9mm barrels will accept a longer OAL. It will allow me to increase the charge without worrying about setback or issues with the bullet sitting so close to the powder. Or maybe I'm making this a bigger deal than it is and it's safe to increase powder charge and continue to loading the same OAL of 1.050 with 4.2/4.3grs of powder?

A max load for a couple different 124Gr bullets with a 1.142 OAL is 4.3grs in the load data I have for VV N320. So to go this short 1.050 with a 124 JHP and also increase powder charge near max is a bit worrying (main reason I wanted to ask first before even attempting a higher powder charge).

I'd like to stick to the N320 as well since I got a great deal locally a while back and have enough for another 6-8 months.


Data from shooting the RMR 124gr JHP in both guns.

Name: Shadow 2 - (124gr JHP 4.1gr 1.050)
Shots: 5
Average: 1085 ft/s
SD: 6 ft/s
Min: 1077 ft/s
Max: 1093 ft/s
Spread: 16 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 134
Power Factor Low: 133
Power Factor High: 135
Barometric Pressure: 29.9 in Hg
Temperature: 50F
Weight: 124 gr.
Manufacturer: RMR
Type: JHP MPR FMJ
Caliber: .355
Powder: 4.1gr N320
Firearm: Shadow 2

Name: Glock 19 (124gr JHP 4.1gr 1.050)
Shots: 5
Average: 1066 ft/s
SD: 5 ft/s
Min: 1063 ft/s
Max: 1076 ft/s
Spread: 13 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 132
Power Factor Low: 131
Power Factor High: 133
Barometric Pressure: 29.9 in Hg
Temperature: 50F
Weight: 124 gr.
Manufacturer: RMR
Type: JHP MPR FMJ
Caliber: .355
Powder: 4.1gr N320
Firearm: Glock 19

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I would be happy with the 1085fps because next summer when it gets hot outside you may already be at 1100 fps or higher.
Unless N320 is reverse temp sensitive, and I don't know if it is or not, you will probably be alright. I wouldn't want to push the limits of the guns in the summer after you forgot you loaded to max at 50 deg, and now it's 90 out.
You may want to look for a box of Hornady XTPs or something similar, that is proven to open at a lower velocity for you SD loads and just use the RMR bullets for everything else.

 

[longdayjake]

If you go with a max load at that seating depth you will likely be pushing yourself into the +p arena. Most 9mm self defense ammo is +p nowadays because manufacturers are building it to shoot and expand out of short CC guns. The question becomes whether or not you want to be shooting +p ammo for everything. I happen to own RMR so I have a ton of those bullets to play with. I've made ammo for self defense that is +p. (yes, I carry my own reloads with my own bullets). I've also got a bunch of the HP loaded up for just plinking and practice. I also have a bunch loaded up for different match stages. Some I load hot to spin the spinners. Some I load soft cause its all close range paper stuff. Granted, I'm a 3 gunner and my loads don't get tested before the match. I don't have to reach a power factor. I guess that means I've played with a bunch of different loads. I've got loads for PCC and loads for all kinds of scenarios. I guess what I am trying to say is, the more guns you get and the more stuff you want to do, the more loads you gotta make.

 

[lordpaxman]

A max load for a couple different 124Gr bullets with a 1.142 OAL is 4.3grs in the load data I have for VV N320. So to go this short 1.050 with a 124 JHP and also increase powder charge near max is a bit worrying (main reason I wanted to ask first before even attempting a higher powder charge).

I use a lot of N320, it’s been a very well behaved powder for pushing the limits. That means either shortening the COL or pushing the VV max data. I’ve done both but worked up those loads very carefully and monitored via chrono to see if I was still getting linear increases in velocity. I didn’t get anywhere near as short as 1.050, more like 1.110, so I can’t help you there, but if it were me and I’d need to load that short, I’d consider a slower powder first. It’s not that N320 might work, it’s just that I’d err on the side of caution. Good luck.

 

[UnkleReign]

I would be happy with the 1085fps because next summer when it gets hot outside you may already be at 1100 fps or higher.
Unless N320 is reverse temp sensitive, and I don't know if it is or not, you will probably be alright. I wouldn't want to push the limits of the guns in the summer after you forgot you loaded to max at 50 deg, and now it's 90 out.

That's a great point. I created a lot of loads during the warm days for the 124gr FMJ bullets, I should probably chrono those again to see how much they dropped, I'll look into the temp reverse sensitive thing to make sure but a quick search shows a lot people noticing velocity differences depending on weather with the N320. SoCal weather can by swing by a lot even on some winter days, the day before I loaded these JHP bullets it was 70-75 degrees at night and following day was 50 around 3pm but on average stays warm. Your advice is well taken.

Most 9mm self defense ammo is +p nowadays because manufacturers are building it to shoot and expand out of short CC guns. The question becomes whether or not you want to be shooting +p ammo for everything.

This makes sense. I actually have some factory Hollow Points I bought before reloading that are +p. Not sure why this didn't cross my mind, probably since I'm still a reloading rookie. I don't think I want to to shoot +p for everything, so making two load recipes (or several) to cover different scenarios is a wiser choice if I want to continue using the JHP. I've been spoiled with your 124gr FMJ RN/TC FP bullets for a while and was hoping to do the same with the JHP.

Also, want to thank you for taking time to answer my question since I know you guys are super busy. I always feel bad for ordering more bullets from you guys lately thinking it adds more work but your bullets have treated me well and it's tough looking elsewhere. Thank you!

I use a lot of N320, it’s been a very well behaved powder for pushing the limits. That means either shortening the COL or pushing the VV max data. I’ve done both but worked up those loads very carefully and monitored via chrono to see if I was still getting linear increases in velocity. I didn’t get anywhere near as short as 1.050, more like 1.110, so I can’t help you there, but if it were me and I’d need to load that short, I’d consider a slower powder first. It’s not that N320 might work, it’s just that I’d err on the side of caution. Good luck.

Thanks. I agree, or at the very least I should be making different loads with a longer OAL with the N320 and not increasing charge for the 1.050 OAL load.

 

[Dudedog]

If you really want 1100 I would consider a slower powder.
N320 makes great light-med loads but is on the fast side IMO if you are after MAX vel.

Lots of good choices for a slower powder BE86, Silhouette, CFE-P. I have never used N340, N350, 3N37 but they would probably be good choices if you want to stick with VV powders.

 

[UnkleReign]

If you really want 1100 I would consider a slower powder.
N320 makes great light-med loads but is on the fast side IMO if you are after MAX vel.

Lots of good choices for a slower powder BE86, Silhouette, CFE-P. I have never used N340, N350, 3N37 but they would probably be good choices if you want to stick with VV powders.

I've been exclusively using the N320. I got a few 4# N320 containers from someone selling off his pistol components 6-7 months ago and wanted to see what I could get away with using the N320. I shoot 150-250 9mm rounds a week, so it's going to take a while to finish. I've read/heard good things about CFE Pistol, so maybe its time to experiment with another powder and possibly use that for the JHP. I'll look into the other ones you mentioned as well.

Really glad I finally posted here. Helps get different points of view instead of being fixated on a single solution to the problem I was having. Appreciate everyones input so far.

 

[LiveLife]

trying to reach 1100 FPS using RMR 124gr JHP for all my 9mm handguns ... very short OAL (1.050)

I've read/heard good things about CFE Pistol

Welcome to THR.

For decades, I used WSF to load duplicate practice rounds using same bullets as factory Speer Gold Dot HP and Remington Golden Saber JHP due to higher velocities WSF produced compared to other powders while producing accuracy.

When Alliant released BE-86 after using it for decades to load factory premium JHP ammunition (Ummm ... Speer, Federal and Alliant are owned by the same parent company, Vista Outdoor < hint, hint ... wink, wink >), I switched from WSF to BE-86 for even higher velocities and greater accuracy.

Here are some load data for you to chew on: (Speer load data lists powders with higher velocities at the top) - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Gold Dot HP BE-86 OAL 1.120" Start 5.4 gr (1124 fps) - Max 6.0 gr (1199 fps)

• 9mm 124 gr Gold Dot HP CFE Pistol OAL 1.120" Start 4.7 gr (1024 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (1127 fps)

NOTE: When I am using shorter OAL (Bullet seating depth) than published, I will consider reducing start/max charges by .2-.3 gr.

9mm 124 gr GDHP is .570" in length - http://www.shootforum.com/forum/bulletdb.html

And RMR 9mm 124 gr MPR JHP is .558" in length - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/hornady-and-rmr-bullet-lengths.865945/#post-11446057

But compare the below picture of old RMR 124 gr JHP that has similar profile as GDHP loaded to 1.090" and RMR MPR loaded to 1.040". So using 1.050" OAL with RMR MPR, I would consider .2-.3 gr reduction for start/max charges but at 5.1-5.2 gr of BE-86, you may achieve your goal of 1100 fps.

 

[rfwobbly]

My experience with N320 and CZs says that your load is already at Max. You're going to need the next slower powder, either N330 or BE-86, to reach 1100fps.

Whereas older CZs held fairly short, but similar throat lengths, unfortunately newer CZs have become somewhat of a mixed bag. You may want to send the gun back to CZ-USA if you have serious doubts.

 

[AJC1]

You could have your barrel throated to match your other guns or order a spare barrel with those throat demensions. I guess it really depends on how in love you are with your bullet or powder selection. Tons of solutions to a problem.

 

[UnkleReign]

Welcome to THR.

But compare the below picture of old RMR 124 gr JHP that has similar profile as GDHP loaded to 1.090" and RMR MPR loaded to 1.040". So using 1.050" OAL with RMR MPR, I would consider .2-.3 gr reduction for start/max charges but at 5.1-5.2 gr of BE-86, you may achieve your goal of 1100 fps.

Interesting. I'll be able to reach 1100 fps with less than minimum charge listed (obviously due to the shorter OAL) where as CFE Pistol would be somewhere in the middle at that OAL. Thanks for posting the additional links as well, saves me some time researching.

My experience with N320 and CZs says that your load is already at Max. You're going to need the next slower powder, either N330 or BE-86, to reach 1100fps.

Whereas older CZs held fairly short, but similar throat lengths, unfortunately newer CZs have become somewhat of a mixed bag. You may want to send the gun back to CZ-USA if you have serious doubts.

Yeah thats the direction I'm headed.

Honestly, with all the research I've done from people that have posted the OAL they use with their Shadow 2 and similar bullets, my barrel seems like it's on the shorter end. It won't hurt to reach out to CZ and ask about it. Thanks.

You could have your barrel throated to match your other guns or order a spare barrel with those throat demensions. I guess it really depends on how in love you are with your bullet or powder selection. Tons of solutions to a problem.

I've read others doing that to their barrels but getting a spare barrel thats modified didn't cross my mind. Expensive option but I like the idea of keeping the original the same if one day I decide to sell it and the buyer is picky. Doesn't look easy finding a spare barrel right now though. Definitely, wasn't expecting to get this many solutions. Appreciated and hope it's helpful to others in the future.

 

[Dudedog]

Did you get it worked out?

 

[UnkleReign]

Did you get it worked out?

Yes. I ended up buying a SP-01 and tossing the Shadow 2. Don't have to load "as" short. .

Joking aside, (only partially) since I really did end up picking up a SP-01 last week to train more with instead of the Shadow 2. I stopped loading the RMR 124gr JHP for now and purchased BE-86 and CFE-Pistol a few days after everyone's input. It's time I explored different powders anyway. I got lucky with BE-86 since it was the last two at powdervalley and I added CFE-Pistol as well. I had to pay hazmat so might as well buy extra. I needed the nudge to get off the N320 and it worked. I've been pretty busy so I haven't had time to load any yet or even shoot my new handgun.


I decided to go this route since I don't want to risk pushing past max loads with the N320 (advice well taken). Currently, with the RMR 124gr RN FMJs using 4.2gr/N320 at 1.120 the recoil already feels like it's at the higher limits for me. I'd probably be better off using 115gr bullets If I didn't care about a little less snappiness. I'll start working up a load this Sunday or early next week with only BE-86 first and then experiment more with CFE-Pistol during Christmas/Holidays.

Also, I searched for a new spare barrel to get throated, no luck there. The only one I found in stock is at Bar-Sto but they don't ship to California. If anyone happens to know any other companies selling barrels with minimal fitting required and in stock, please let me know. I am being a bit stubborn about keeping the original barrel intact. If the Shadow 2 wasn't so hard to get in California, I wouldn't care as much. Throated barrel would be my preferred route to be honest, that way I can load one size to rule them all! (at least with per bullet type/weight). Also, more load data to work from when I try different powders.

LiveLife provided great reference material earlier. I'll probably start with a slightly lighter load with the BE-86 to get a better feel and then work up to 1100FPS. Haven't even opened up a bottle of BE-86 yet. Wonder if my Dillon powder measure will like it? How's the smell? Lots of questions! Looking forward to loading some.

 

[AJC1]

Yes. I ended up buying a SP-01 and tossing the Shadow 2. Don't have to load "as" short. .

Joking aside, (only partially) since I really did end up picking up a SP-01 last week to train more with instead of the Shadow 2. I stopped loading the RMR 124gr JHP for now and purchased BE-86 and CFE-Pistol a few days after everyone's input. It's time I explored different powders anyway. I got lucky with BE-86 since it was the last two at powdervalley and I added CFE-Pistol as well. I had to pay hazmat so might as well buy extra. I needed the nudge to get off the N320 and it worked. I've been pretty busy so I haven't had time to load any yet or even shoot my new handgun.
View attachment 960155

I decided to go this route since I don't want to risk pushing past max loads with the N320 (advice well taken). Currently, with the RMR 124gr RN FMJs using 4.2gr/N320 at 1.120 the recoil already feels like it's at the higher limits for me. I'd probably be better off using 115gr bullets If I didn't care about a little less snappiness. I'll start working up a load this Sunday or early next week with only BE-86 first and then experiment more with CFE-Pistol during Christmas/Holidays.

Also, I searched for a new spare barrel to get throated, no luck there. The only one I found in stock is at Bar-Sto but they don't ship to California. If anyone happens to know any other companies selling barrels with minimal fitting required and in stock, please let me know. I am being a bit stubborn about keeping the original barrel intact. If the Shadow 2 wasn't so hard to get in California, I wouldn't care as much. Throated barrel would be my preferred route to be honest, that way I can load one size to rule them all! (at least with per bullet type/weight). Also, more load data to work from when I try different powders.

LiveLife provided great reference material earlier. I'll probably start with a slightly lighter load with the BE-86 to get a better feel and then work up to 1100FPS. Haven't even opened up a bottle of BE-86 yet. Wonder if my Dillon powder measure will like it? How's the smell? Lots of questions! Looking forward to loading some.

One thing I am curious about is that most of those pistols are based on the cz75. They might let you swap barrels on the two you own but the shadow being very specialized might not be compatible with the others. Just a free thing to try.

 

[Dudedog]

Both BE86 and CFE-P meter well for me thru my Lee and Hornady measures.
I like N320 but for what you are after I think either will be a better choice, and being slower burning I think they will fell less snappy.

I am in CA to and the state is a pain. I wonder if maybe your LGS (FFL) could order the Barsto barrel for you?
I recall something about CA changing the law on ordering "gun" parts but didn't think it went into effect yet. (I may just be imagining this, so much BS in CA it's hard to keep track of it)

With the slower powders you could probably shorten the OAL, don't know how much you need to get it to fit your current barrel.
I was just playing with OAL on these two loads , S+B SP, mixed range brass, 5" 9mm 1911, charges as thrown after setting measure.
Going shorter picked up about 15 FPS
Note: RMR 124 RN, not MPR JHP.
String: 3
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 2:55:58 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1012
Low Vel: 969
Ave Vel: 985
Ext Spread: 43
Std Dev: 17
RMR 124 RN 4.5 BE86 1.13 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
971 120.404 259.574
985 122.14 267.113
992 123.008 270.923
1012 125.488 281.958
969 120.156 258.506

String: 5
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 2:59:36 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1015
Low Vel: 977
Ave Vel: 998
Ext Spread: 38
Std Dev: 14
RMR 124 RN 4.5 BE86 1.09 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1005 124.62 278.071
1015 125.86 283.632
1000 124 275.311
977 121.148 262.792
995 123.38 272.565


S+B SP, mixed range brass, 5" 9mm 1911, charges as thrown after setting measure.
A little slower than you are after but


Name RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08
Notes N/A
Number of Shots 5
Extreme Spread 47
Average 1078
Standard Deviation 18
Power Factor Average 134
Power Factor Low 130
Power Factor High 136
Shot List Index Velocity Temperature Barometric Pressure Bullet Weight Ft/Lbs Power Factor Date
RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08 1 1095 124 330 136 2/11/2018 13:09
RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08 2 1086 124 325 135 2/11/2018 13:09
RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08 3 1048 124 302 130 2/11/2018 13:09 (this one messed up the ES and SD)
RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08 4 1094 124 330 136 2/11/2018 13:09
RMR MPR 124 JHP 5.3 BE86 1.08 5 1071 124 316 133 2/11/2018 13:09

Allaint lists 5.8gr MAX at a longer OAL,so at the shorter OAL I would guess MAX is around 5.5-5.6.
I believe Walkalong had a BE86 load with the MPRs that shot well and was over 1100 but I don't recall the OAL or charge. (might search for it or may be he will link it to this thread)


Side note, CCI SPs tend to be about 10-20 FPS quicker than the S+Bs

 

[UnkleReign]

One thing I am curious about is that most of those pistols are based on the cz75. They might let you swap barrels on the two you own but the shadow being very specialized might not be compatible with the others. Just a free thing to try.

That would be great if it worked. I think there are a few models where the barrel is interchangeable but I did try swapping just to see. Shadow 2 barrel sticks out of the SP-01 and the SP-01 barrel is a bit short/wobbly in the Shadow 2. The Shadow barrel actually fits snug around the breech in the SP-01 but not confident enough to try shooting it. It's a good question to ask CZ.

I am in CA to and the state is a pain. I wonder if maybe your LGS (FFL) could order the Barsto barrel for you?
I recall something about CA changing the law on ordering "gun" parts but didn't think it went into effect yet. (I may just be imagining this, so much BS in CA it's hard to keep track of it)

It might be worth asking if they will send to an FFL. I'll keep in mind if I don't find something for a while. I'd hate to pay FFL fee on just a barrel but I think they just refuse to ship to California overall since I've bought a replacement barrel for my Glock 19 before from a different vendor. No, you're not imagining, that BS law takes effect in 2022 now instead of 2024 but I'm not sure if it targets handgun barrels specifically. It's more for 80% lowers and build related tools like Jigs if I remember correctly (I may be wrong and they extended it to other gun parts as they always eventually do).

With the slower powders you could probably shorten the OAL, don't know how much you need to get it to fit your current barrel.
I was just playing with OAL on these two loads , S+B SP, mixed range brass, 5" 9mm 1911, charges as thrown after setting measure.

Both those loads are relevant for my needs as I have RMR 124 RN (Plated and FMJ FP) and load them at 1.120 OAL. I think I actually have every 124gr bullet RMR sold in the last year. Even the brass jacketed ones (good bullet but my least favorite to load).

The RMR MPR 124 JHP will still need to be at 1.050 until I find and get the spare barrel throated but it's a good start. I'll start at 5.1 and have a feeling 5.3 will be where I want to land with the shorter OAL. It's good you used a 5" barrel which I'll be using as well to compare.

I believe Walkalong had a BE86 load with the MPRs that shot well and was over 1100 but I don't recall the OAL or charge. (might search for it or may be he will link it to this thread)

Side note, CCI SPs tend to be about 10-20 FPS quicker than the S+Bs

I'll do a search see if I can find it. Actually after doing a quick search (not sure if this is it) but found one here

I have Federals and Winchester at the moment. I'll probably use the Federal. Not sure how plus or minus those are compared to CCIs, the only difference I've read so far on THR about them is the hardness.

Thanks for the info, very handy. I'll be using it!

 

[Dudedog]

Your local LGS may not charge a fee if they are nice, since it is not a gun and no serial # to track.
I have some BE86 left so I will load up some at 1.05 and try to chrono for you. (5.1, 5.3 and 5.5gr)
One thing about BE86 is I have had a couple different lots and one lot was noticeably "hotter" than the others.
Between .1 and .2 gr hotter, for example some lots say 5.3 got me 1080 with the hot lot 5.1 or 5.2 would have been about the same vel.

Couldn't read the OAL Walkalong used for his BE86 load you linked but I think it was 1.07 same as the Silhouette load. (even though the target says 1.10)
He mentioned that 5.7 was MAX with that OAL( and back off if you are going shorter), which was giving him a hair over 1200 so with BE86 1100 should be easy.

 

[Dudedog]

I chronoed some for you after my match today.
Mixed range brass, S+B SP, 5" 9mm 1911 (high mileage barrel)
I didn't take my computer to connect to the chrono and just wrote down the average for 5 shots and the SD+ES
Charges as thrown after setting measure

RMR 124 MPR JHP @ 1.05
Chrono at 10'
5.0 gr BE86 Avg 1088 ES 55 SD 26
5.2 gr BE86 Avg 1111 ES 37 SD 17
5.4 gr BE86 Avg 1145 ES 31 SD 12

Primers looked fine on all of them (of course by the time you flatten primers in 9mm you are way to high)
ES and SD got better as the charge went up.
5.5 should probably be ok at this OAL maybe 5.6 as well.

If you are only after 1100 5.2 should get you there otherwise 5.4 seems fine in my gun.
Hope this helps
(Note different lot of BE86 than my 5.3 load above)

 

[UnkleReign]

Your local LGS may not charge a fee if they are nice, since it is not a gun and no serial # to track.

You're right. Not sure why I associated a FFL fee. Worth trying, even if it's a small middleman fee. I'll contact Bar-sto see if it's possible before I ask my LGS.

Primers looked fine on all of them (of course by the time you flatten primers in 9mm you are way to high)
I have some BE86 left so I will load up some at 1.05 and try to chrono for you. (5.1, 5.3 and 5.5gr)
One thing about BE86 is I have had a couple different lots and one lot was noticeably "hotter" than the others.
Between .1 and .2 gr hotter, for example some lots say 5.3 got me 1080 with the hot lot 5.1 or 5.2 would have been about the same vel.


ES and SD got better as the charge went up.
5.5 should probably be ok at this OAL maybe 5.6 as well.

If you are only after 1100 5.2 should get you there otherwise 5.4 seems fine in my gun.
Hope this helps

Hope your match went well. This is great help and thanks for taking the time to chrono them.
That lot variance is good to know since I only bought two bottles and will keep that in mind for the new BE86 bottles I get as I've only been working with a bunch of N320 from the same lot.
I'll be loading them tomorrow night since my powder measure is now set to 5.0gr with BE86 and I'll chrono them over the weekend.
Thank you sir!

 

[Dudedog]

Your welcome, glad to help,
No big deal, 10 minutes to load them, <10 minutes to chrono, was headed to the range anyway so I figured why not. (I was curious about the shorter OAL as well)
Match went well except for major brain fart on the last stage where I forgot to shoot a target hiding behind a barrel..... (did walk thru, remember target behind barrel, remember target hiding behind barrel, forgot target behind the barrel )
Not going to win anyway but I hate making stupid mistakes like that.
Getting senile+blind in my old age.....
I did have a great time and the weather was nice, 55 early in the morning, 75 by the time we finished.

One lot 5.3gr @ 1.08 was 1078
The lot I have now
5.0 @ 1.05 was 1088, 5.2gr @ 1.05 was 1111 so close, but note the shorter OAL and different lot was faster at 5.0 gr than the other lot at the longer OAL using 5.3,
so with Alliant's MAX of 5.9 for a 124 JHP at 1.12 OAL I would say at 1.05 around 5.5/5.6 is probably MAX. (maybe a bit of wiggle room on top but Alliant does not list +P charges so you don't know)
I don't have Quickload and I don't know if it has BE86 but would be curious if it does what numbers it comes up with for pressure.
Can't tell pressure from vels but they are the best thing most of us can use to guess.

I wish I had some of the old lot of BE85 to load at 1.05 to compare the 2.
Since you are working up not a big deal, just be aware if you are close to MAX you will probably want to work back up if you change lots. (always a good idea when changing lots)

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

My load with BE86 and RMR 124 MPR is 5.6 grains at 1.07". My results are very similar. I get 1140 FPS from 4" barrel handgun and 1330 FPS from 16" carbine. Very interesting to see others results.

 

[UnkleReign]

I got the chance to test some loads this weekend. Posted results below for the BE-86 in case someone else finds it useful. I used three CZ different guns Shadow 2, 75D PCR and a SP-01. Goal was to find a load I can use in all handguns while reaching and average of 1100 FPS to make sure the RMR HP bullets expand. I stopped shooting the Shadow at 5.3grs (@1164fps) and any further was not required. I wanted to make sure the shorter barrel CZs would reach 1100fps, those are more relevant for a SD/HD round. My PCR always has a the lowest FPS even compared to the Glock 19. I ended up at 5.3-5.4grs being the sweet spot and Dudedog is correct with 5.5+ going into Max territory at the shorter OAL, definitely don't want to go any higher especially with the Shadow 2.

I have to admit though this load combo seems louder than a 124gr FMJ factory round but similar recoil. I may be imagining things since I haven't shot a factory round in a while but it was definitely louder than a near max N320 round. Maybe because I never really reached past 1100fps with the n320 loading 124gr and the [email protected] was breaking sound barrier at that point.

SHADOW 2 - RMR 124 JHP MPR 1.050 OAL
Shadow [email protected] BE-86 (Not happy how I loaded this one but it was a lighter load to make sure I can proceed)
Shots: 5
Average: 1124 ft/s
SD: 18 ft/s
Min: 1092 ft/s
Max: 1143 ft/s
Spread: 51 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 139

Shadow [email protected] BE-86
Shots: 5
Average: 1141 ft/s
SD: 6 ft/s
Min: 1135 ft/s
Max: 1152 ft/s
Spread: 17 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 141
Power Factor Low: 140
Power Factor High: 142

Shadow [email protected] BE-86
Shots: 5
Average: 1164 ft/s
SD: 4 ft/s
Min: 1156 ft/s
Max: 1169 ft/s
Spread: 13 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 144
Power Factor Low: 143
Power Factor High: 144


CZ SP-01 - RMR 124 JHP MPR 1.050 OAL
[email protected] BE-86
Shots: 5
Average: 1125 ft/s
SD: 14 ft/s
Min: 1112 ft/s
Max: 1153 ft/s
Spread: 41 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 139

[email protected] BE-86
Shots: 5
Average: 1141 ft/s
SD: 4 ft/s
Min: 1135 ft/s
Max: 1147 ft/s
Spread: 12 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 141


CZ 75D PCR - RMR 124 JHP MPR 1.050 OAL
75D [email protected] BE-86 (Almost there, average 1093FPS)
Shots: 5
Average: 1093 ft/s
SD: 2 ft/s
Min: 1090 ft/s
Max: 1096 ft/s
Spread: 6 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 135

75D [email protected] BE-86
Shots: 5
Average: 1118 ft/s
SD: 16 ft/s
Min: 1100 ft/s
Max: 1139 ft/s
Spread: 39 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 138


If anyone is interested, I was able to capture a few at the end. Im assuming the ones that didn't expand were the lower FPS.


I also did a couple RMR 124gr FMJ RN tests but only posting the last one.

Name: RMR 124 FMJ RN 1.110 5.2 BE-86 (CZ SP-01)
Shots: 5
Average: 1111 ft/s
SD: 6 ft/s
Min: 1103 ft/s
Max: 1116 ft/s
Spread: 13 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 137


Appreciate everyone that helped. It's been fun trying a new powder since I was hesitant to move off the N320. And thanks to Dudedog that made it easier doing the ladder and gave some good pointers in another conversation we had.

 

[Fatelvis]

I don't have Quickload and I don't know if it has BE86 but would be curious if it does what numbers it comes up with for pressure.

Unfortunately Quickload does not have BE-86 in its powder menu. I hope it is in the next updated disk.

 

[Walkalong]

I was hesitant to move off the N320

N-320 is great for 1050ish in a 5" barrel with 124/5s in 9MM, but not the best choice for "full power" loads, so you made a good choice.

 

[Dudedog]

Cool, glad it worked out for you.
Forgot to mention that the barrel I did my tests on is a little slower now than it was when new. (55K+ rounds on it so it's a little worn)
Looks like you got nice linear vel increases across the loads and guns, + point 1 gr =about +20fps.


Happy BE86 worked out for you.