Road rage - course of action?

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Jeff White said:
It is my understanding that even in Texas, the aggressor doesn't have many claims to self defense.
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This is correct up to a point. Once 98C5 broke contact or attempted to he ceased to be the aggressor. Mutual combat is a losing situation for both individuals.

He should have gone to a public business such as an ice house/convenience store to have witnesses. He should have called the police if the guy followed. Get the vehicle license number. BTDT.

When SAPD showed up, gave the officer my TDL and my CHL and reported the incident. Store manager told officer the guy was a hothead especially when drinking. Gave the officer the plate number and he ran it. Asked if I wanted him to have a talk with the guy as it was only a few blocks to his house. Said yes, figuring he'd tell the guy he was messing with an old man who was heeled.

My comments apply only to Texas. Things may be vastly different in your state.
​
 
98C5 said:
I throw my hand out as to say "***?!!"
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shaking_finger.jpg

;)

It might have gone better had you not done that.
 
FYI



"Hand signals" are classed as disorderly conduct in Texas

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.009.00.000042.00.htm#42.01.00

§ 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar
language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance
tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public
place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate
breach of the peace;

Emphasized for conwict's benefit.
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I agree with SlamFire and Dempsey, but I am not so sure I've seen a clear case precedent for what Jeff White's talking about. You really didn't "engage," IMO, by throwing your hand out, at least not in a legal sense.

It's not as if you gave the finger, but you shouldn't do it on general principle. Not sure what the law really says.
 
conwict said;
I am not so sure I've seen a clear case precedent for what Jeff White's talking about. You really didn't "engage," IMO, by throwing your hand out, at least not in a legal sense.
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Yes, he did "engage". Fights start over this kind of thing all the time. Someone is bumped in a crowded bar and responds verbally or with a gesture of some type. Someone is cut off in traffic and the person cut off responds with a gesture. Unless you can prove that the bumping in the bar or the act of cutting the other subject off in traffic was intentional and malicious the person who reacted either verbally or with a hostile gesture started it.

Unfortunately I've had to sort out more of those situations then I care to remember after it's escalated into violence.

Quite simply, when you are carrying a gun, you need to be cool enough not to react to real or perceived slights like that. If you do react and it escalates to the point you used your weapon, you're probably not going to have an easy time getting anyone to believe your claim of self defense.

Guy bumps you in the crowd at the bar and doesn't say "Excuse me", so what. Guy cuts you off in traffic, again, so what. Is your personal sense of self worth going to be irreparably damaged if you don't respond in some way? If you are the type of person who absolutely must respond to these kinds of minor slights from other people, perhaps you shouldn't carry a firearm.

When you are armed, every altercation you get into is an armed altercation and has the potential of very bad consequences for everyone involved.

It's really quite simple. Start a fight, and win it with your firearm and you will likely be facing very serious criminal charges. It's best not to start fights.

Disengage, disengage, disengage. If you are in a public setting, loudly tell the person you are disengaging so that any witnesses will be able to repeat that in their statements.

Jeff
 
Quite simply, when you are carrying a gun, you need to be cool enough not to react to real or perceived slights like that. If you do react and it escalates to the point you used your weapon, you're probably not going to have an easy time getting anyone to believe your claim of self defense...

Disengage, disengage, disengage. If you are in a public setting, loudly tell the person you are disengaging so that any witnesses will be able to repeat that in their statements.
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This is pure gold. Thanks, Jeff.
 
Go to www.platewire.com and Flag the person's plate.:cuss:

I don't carry very often at all.
When I do, it's a 500 Magnum, usually to and from hunting, or possibly to the range and back.

I have learned over my many years of driving that it is BEST to not escalate any situation on the road.

I concur with discreetly dialing 911 (which I have done a few times myself), or driving to a police station (calling 911 and letting them know what is happening and that you are on your way would help).

If you have any kind of lunatic that is giving you a hard time, they may eventually use their vehicle against you to try to "get even," if they aren't carrying.

It's not worth all the high blood pressure, adrenaline flowing, everybody angry, etc., etc., etc.
 
or followed you into your drive or property
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If your being followed don't ever pull into your driveway. I'm assuming most people affected by road rage would be keiniving enough to take note of where you live and slash your tires later that night or something.
 
The biggest mistake most folks make in these situations is that they put the pedal to the metal.Why go fast,so you can crash and burn or kill someone else? Just keep driving and don't let the fool box you in.Drive to the nearest Police Station or Fire Station and start blowing the horn.Help will come.Then if you get attacked before the cops come,firemen make good witnesses.
 
Random statistics:

I was a professional bus driver for seventeen years, and had professional-level skills update courses all along. I learned a few interesting, documented statistics.

First, about five percent of truck drivers are on drugs, mostly meth. My state (Oregon) periodically pulls over EVERY truck and tests the drivers---some of them do not even know where they are!

Second, about ten percent of car drivers are on major medications, everything from blood-pressure meds to anti-psychotics. Their driving and judgement is impaired by legal prescriptions. This is not counting the drug users who are hopped-up on crack or crank and are simply acting insane because their brains are fried.

Third, and most significant, about ten percent of car drivers are clinically mentally ill, everything from major depression/suicidal to paranoid schizophrenia! Many are simple losers, who have miserable homelives and only feel empowered when they are behind the wheel and feel anonymous with an easy escape after acting out their frustrations. Many of these losers are armed and dangerous.

My conclusions: never make eye-contact or interaction with crazy-acting drivers---because they probably ARE crazy. Just keep both hands on the wheel and ignore them. If they can't get a reaction from you they will hunt for some other victim. And, keep a good handgun and a cellphone close so that you can grab either without delay or fumble---don't wait until they yank your car door open.............................elsullo
 
You were worried about pulling a gun in this situation? Really?
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Yes. Since I was the one who started it. (Throwing my hand out the window) I decided since he was going off, there was a reason for his crazy driving and state of mind. As this point I decided to deescalate the situation. I went around him when the light turned green. (It had been at least 10 seconds after the light turned) He wasn't going to move, just sitting there going off.

Bottom line: It was my fault for the hand gesture. I caused the altercation. The main reason I posted this was to see what my options are/were if he decided to ratchet up the situation.
 
In this situation I would have just let the guy pass and kept my distance. This happens all too often and it's not worth your life (or his/her's) to be pulling out guns because someone is acting the fool. Display your gun in that situation and you can bet 1 million dollars that that lunitic would have dialed 911 crying he's the innocent one who just had a gun pulled on him. As you already it's then called felony menacing which = jail time. In some cases it's just funny to let the person speed on by and watch as they are later pulled over for speeding somewhere up the road...lol.
 
Just one other note on this. Does everyone here not only carry a gun, but also carry pepper spray/OC? I do. I have thought this situation through alot of times. Situation: A guy keeps following you and you think he may want to harm you in some way beacuse of his previous road rage actions. You may have to stop due to heavy traffic and physically have no where to go. So the guy has you boxed in traffic from behind and gets out of his car/truck wearing shorts and a t-shirt. You see that their is no weapon visible at that time. He is just cursing and waving his hands at you as he walks up to your window. What do you do? What I would do is have pepper spray in hand, lock all the doors and crack the drivers side window an inch (opening for OC/pepper spray and for me to attempt to calm the situation). Just a thought.
 


Using pepper spray through a partially open window may get you a bigger dose than the bad guy. FWIW, I been on the down wind side a couple of times and that's no fun. About the only time I carry spray now is when I'm out for a walk and it's for dogs.

​
 
You asked "at what point would you have considered pulling your weapon".

Here in Va, there must be 3 things present to use deadly force:
Intent - That is the bad guy is there and is showing intent to be a threat.
Opportunity - This is you and/or your family.
Ability - What do they have to carry out out the threat?

Even if the BG got out of his car, and came towards you with a tire iron, from the way you described it, you had an escape route by going around him. Besides you were in your car (assuming it wasnt a convertabile with the top down), and somewhat safe. So pulling your weapon probably would not have been a good move.

Now if he stepped out with a gun in his hand, ........

From the way you described the scenario, I dont think you would be considered the aggressor. Simply putting your hands up as in *** doesnt sound like it to me, but I could be wrong. The other person was obviously the aggressor, by cutting around you, and then purposely not proceeding when the light turned green, as well as turning around and yelling at you.

The best course of action, IMO, is as others have already stated, call 911 and report road rage in progress, describe car make, tags, etc. Glad it all worked out for you, there's way too many idiots on the road.
 
Quite simply, when you are carrying a gun, you need to be cool enough not to react to real or perceived slights like that. If you do react and it escalates to the point you used your weapon, you're probably not going to have an easy time getting anyone to believe your claim of self defense.
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I do agree with this and tend to err on the side of caution, anyway.
 
If you'd have moved to the right and let faster traffic pass on the left, as required by law, none of this would have happened. :D


*ducks*
 
If you'd have moved to the right and let faster traffic pass on the left, as required by law, none of this would have happened.
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My thoughts exactly. Two wrongs don't make a right, but if someone is coming up behind you, move over. Just because they are speeding (and it sounds like you were too) doesn't mean you shouldn't obey the rules of the road.

KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS

Seems a lot of people forget that these days.

Also, it helps not to instigate things. I do a lot of driving all over the country. I've been cutoff by "professional" truckers who are too busy using their cell phone to either look first or use their turn signals. I feel like flipping them off. But I don't. It doesn't accomplish anything other than to discover who on the road is a truly dangerous psychopath.
 
When you're really into hammers pretty soon all your problems begin to look like nails.
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Amen to that. I sometimes wonder what would cross my mind if I was carrying in my car (fortunately or unfortunately, I live on a state where such an option is, well, laughable). You did the right thing by removing yourself from the situation, but if he had followed you, well....

I once witnessed a similar event, and the dangerous driver followed the 'injured party' to his eventual stop, jumped out of his car, and had to be physically restrained from pounding the other guy. Scary to watch, and I can still see the looks on both faces.
 
Do not shoot someone over road rage. It is stupid. Mace him instead. It is more fun too! LEOs and the courts do not like road rage incidents since many of them could be prevented. Do not make eye contact with someone on the road if they are making gestures of anger towards you. If they pull a gun, however, then the tables swiftly turn. We shouldn't look for that though.
 
Um, 1K and FourTeeFive, PLEASE read my OP before sounding off.

Okay, driving through town after coming back from a nice ride in the Vette(hence my name), I am in the left lane. (Need to be in left to go straight thru light) I see a dark green early 90's model Mercury Couger flying up behind me serve into the right lane, then back in front of me. I throw my hand out as to say "***?!!" I was doing 45mph, speed limit is 35, so he was doing about 55 or so. The light turns red. I stop behind him about a half a car length between us. He turns around in the seat yelling, giving me the finger, yada yada. Okay this guy looks, sounds crazy.
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I had to be in the left lane to go straight.
 
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