Robert Heinlein and guns

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One of his editors- I believe for serializaition in Cosmopolitan tried to get him to work anti-gun dialectic into the story. He refused. John D. McDonald gave in to them.

Heinlein made a significant impact on the 60s babyboomers with Stranger In A Strange Land. Niven and Pournelle dedicated Oath of Fealty to Heinlein because he showed how to write a Libertarian revolution.
 
RAH was THE Grand Master of Science Fiction.

I started with his juveniles when I was a juvenile, and I suspect they have colored my thinking most of my life. I'm quite thankful for that.

I think (not completely sure) that I have every one of his published works. From time to time, I'll reread each one.

I'm now involved in trying to get my daugheter to read Podkayne of Mars. I read For Us, The Living about 6 months ago for the first time in years. Early work, but still you can see in it what will be coming in 20 years.

Can you tell I'm a fan? :rolleyes:
 
Bah. Rocket Ship Galileo is stil my favorite, though the first 50 pages were falling out by the time I was 10 or so. I mean, how can you beat Nazis on the moon, and a bunch of kids who (with their uncle's help) retrofit a V2 Mail Rocket for space?

Starman Jones, Have Spacesuit Will Travel, all great kids books, though modern kids will get confised by the whole "astrogator" concept...
 
Another Heinlein fan checking in - started with Space Cadet in grade school, and worked my way through most of his juvenile titles in short order. Took on Starship Troopers in high school, and brought a copy to Army Basic Training. :rolleyes:

BTW, which book was it, exactly, that had the famous quote, "An armed society is a polite society?" Anybody got the citation for that one?
 
Heinlein is my all time favorite author.

I'm still working my way through his short stories. I've read all the long ones.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a definite must read. That book will make an individual into a better person.

Starship Troopers is easily the clearest picture of a truly and completely enlightened and sensible society.

Lazarus Long personifies self reliance and understanding of one's own abilities.

One that no one has mentioned yet, but is still very good is I Will Fear No Evil. That book is the clearest picture of the fall of society into a welfare state. It is easily the Heinlein that deals most directly with the diaspora.

When I have kids, they will be reading these books.
 
I believe the "Armed Society is a Polite Society" quote is buried somewhere in The Notebooks of Lazarus Long, which were published on their own, and can be found in Time Enough for Love.

Checking it now.

Nope, It is in "Beyond this Horizon".
 
It has been years since I read any of RAH books. But Moon is a harsh mistress, Time enough for Love, and of course Glory Road. I loved the "cold shoulder" in that one.

I had the honor of talking to RAH at L5 society conferences. He was an outstanding individual. I just wish he could be here to day to write about society.
I never put together the Pax and Stranger in a strange land. But then again, I only see a house with three sides painted white :) See of somebody remembers that one :neener:
 
Athene or Athena or whatever her name in Stranger. The Fair Witness chick Jubal Harshaw kept on hand discussed the house with three sides, three of which were white.

She could only see three, the three she could see were white. Therefore the house had three white sides.
 
Right Mr. Kook. I didn't think anybody would remember such an obscure part of that great novel.
 
Pax also uses a Longcourt Phyllis quote for her sigline.

The "Fair Witness" in Stranger is Anne.
She also appeared in Number of the Beast


What Heinlein charcater used the research firm of "Anon,Ibib and Opcit Research Ltd"?

Sam
 
Another RAH fan here. I started out with Farmer in the Sky, Starship Troopers, Time Enough for Love, and Farnham's Freehold. But without a doubt the short story The Long Watch is my favorite.

I think the quote "A paranoid man doesn't leave loaded guns around the house, he keeps one gun loaded, but he goes to the bathroom with it." Referred to Lazarus Long. Words to live by.
 
Fella's;

I'm another RAH fan. Have been for a long time. First one read was probably mid 50's, coulda been 'Galileo'. I can remember waiting for 'the next one' to be published.

And to answer the question, yes he most undoubtedly influenced my world viewpoint.

900F
 
Armed Society

"An armed society is a polite society." The last person I heard that attributed to was Al Capone. The attribution was by Nevada Barr in one of the Anna Pigeon mysteries; can't remember which one.

Amazingly, my copy of Bartlett's Familiar Quotations 15th ed. 1980, Little, Brown & Co, does not include this quotation. Hmmmmm......


Re: the movie "Starship Troopers," remember, they have to get a story told in something like 2 1/2 hours. If they'd done the entire book, it would have been more like a 6-hour movie. IMHO they did a good job of showing the parts of the story they selected. I think most Hollywood types would have a LOT of trouble with Heinlein's view of a truly free society. Maybe the movie stimulated some people to read Heinlein who otherwise wouldn't. Might as well regard the glass as half full...

I too began with Heinlein in Jr. Hi school. Have loved him ever since. Well, except for The Cat Who Walks Through Walls . I hated that; excessively complex; nasty ending. But that's just me. And I still like Heinlein.
 
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RAH was very formative to my teenage thinking. I can't think of anyone in the current generation of SF who has even tried to fill his shoes. Anyone have any nominations they would make?

SM Stirling perhaps for his cautionary tales (the Draka) and stories of people doing the right thing in hard times ("Nantucketer" series). Maybe Eric Flint (from a polar opposite political perspective).
 
Maybe we should poll?

How do you set up a poll? I wonder what percentage of regular THR members feel that RAH strongly influenced their thinking on life. I think I read Job first, then Friday. I had joined the SciFi book club and they just looked interesting, I forget how I chose them.

I just reread Stranger a year or so ago, and I liked it better. For some reason the first time I didn't even want to finish it, just didn't click for me. I think besides Friday, I've reread Moon & Starship the most.

Gee, has anyone ever tried to correlate which Heinlein books someone likes and their other religious beliefs, as in 9 vs 45 and revolver vs semi-auto.

The scientist in me is curious about this one...
 
I'm pretty sure that if my parents knew just how subversive RAH books were, or how influential on my thought processes the books turned out to be, they'd never have allowed one in the house.

Not that that would've kept me from reading 'em. :cool:

Not sure I could claim a favorite, but I always suggest that readers new to RAH start either with The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, or with one of the juveniles -- Have Space Suit, Will Travel or (forgotten gold!) Star Beast. Or, if it's someone fond of short stories, any or all of the short stories.

Oh, another long-forgotten gem: Double Star. Pretty good story. Another: Red Planet -- one of his juveniles, in which you can see a lot of the thinking that went into Stranger in a Strange Land.

I don't think Heinlein ever wrote a pure stinker, though frankly I was never as enamored of Methuselah's Children as the author himself apparently was. I liked Lazarus Long considerably better in the later books, when he'd quit saying "bub" every other sentence.

Hard to select just a few, but here are some quotes from RAH. The ones with (LL) after them are Lazarus Long quotes.

An artist can look at a pretty girl and see the old woman she will become. A better artist can look at an old woman and see the pretty girl she used to be. A GREAT artist can look at an old woman, portray her exactly as she is, and force the viewer to see the pretty girl she used to be. More than that, he can make anyone with the sensitivity of an armadillo see that this lovely young girl is still alive, prisoned inside her ruined body. He can make you feel the quiet endless tragedy that there was never a girl born who ever grew older than eighteen in her heart. -- Robert Heinlein

This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them. Humouring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply. -- Robert Heinlein (LL)

There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled `Nature.'" The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" : but beavers and their dams are. -- Robert Heinlein

I have spent too much of my life opening doors for cats - I once calculated that, since the dawn of civilization, nine hundred and seventy-eight man-centuries have been used up that way. I could show you the figures. -- Robert Heinlein (from The Door Into Summer)

Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. -- "John Joseph Bonforte," in Double Star

Premenstrual Syndrome: Just before their periods women behave the way men do all the time. -- Robert Heinlein (LL)

Women will forgive anything. Otherwise the race would have died out long ago. -- Robert Heinlein (from Beyond This Horizon; I think Hamilton Felix was the character talking)

There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or a corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back, for their private benefit. -- Robert Heinlein (the judge in Star Beast)

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. -- Robert Heinlein (from Revolt in 2100)

No intelligent man has any respect for an unjust law. -- Robert Heinlein (probably LL but I'm not sure)

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -- Robert A. Heinlein ("prof" in Moon is a Harsh Mistress)

Look, friends, the only possible way to enjoy life is not to be afraid to die. A zest for living requires a willingness to die; you cannot have the first without the second. The '60s and '70s and '80s and '90s can be loaded with the zest for living, high excitement, and gutsy adventure for any truly human person. "Truly human"? I mean you descendants of cavemen who outlasted the saber-tooth, you who sprang from the loins of the Vikings, you whose ancestors fought the Crusades and were numbered the Golden Horde. Death is the lot of all of us and the only way the human race has ever conquered death is by treating it with contempt. By living every golden minute as if one had all eternity. -- Robert Heinlein, Guest of Honor Speech at the XIXth World Science Fiction Convention, Seattle, 1961

Of course, the Marxian definition of value is ridiculous. All the work one cares to add willl not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero. By corollary, unskillful work can easily subtract value; an untalented cook can turn wholesome dough and fresh green apples, valuable already, into an inedible mess, value zero. Conversely, a great chef can fashion of those same materials a confection of greater value than a commonplace apple tart, with no more effort than an ordinary cook uses to prepare an ordinary sweet. These kitchen illustrations demolish the Marxian theory of value - the fallacy from which the entire magnificent fraud of communism derives - and to illustrate the truth of the common-sense defintion as measured in terms of use. -- Robert Heinlein ("Colonel Dubois" in Starship Troopers)

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. -- Robert Heinlein

The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom. -- Robert Heinlein (from Beyond This Horizon)

In any sufficiently advanced society, Civil Servant is semantically equivalent to Civil Master. -- R.A. Heinlein (LL)

There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. -- R.A.Heinlein

A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity. -- Robert Heinlein

Political tags - such as royalist, communist, Democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort. -- Robert Heinlein

I do know that the slickest way to lie is to tell the right amount of truth - then to shut up. -- Robert Heinlein (LL, similar sentiments expressed by Maureen in Time Enough for Love)

I'll give you an exact definition. When the happiness of another person becomes as essential to yourself as your own, then the state of love exists. -- Robert Heinlein (LL)

A desire not to butt into other people's business is at least eighty percent of all human wisdom . . . and the other twenty percent isn't very important. -- Robert Heinlein

The answer to any question starting, "Why don't they-" is almost always, "Money." -- Robert Heinlein

In a society in which it is a moral offense to be different from your neighbor your only escape is never to let them find out. -- Robert Heinlein

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck." - Robert A Heinlein

All languages carry in them a portrait of their users and the idioms of every language say over and over again, 'He is a stranger and therefore a barbarian.' ... It is the only joke that God ever repeats, because its humor never grows stale. -- Robert A. Heinlein (from Star Beast)

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you cannot make him think. -- Robert Heinlein (Colonel Dubois in Starship Troopers)

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. -- Robert Heinlein

Anyone who clings to the historically untrue - and thoroughly immoral - doctrine 'that violence never settles anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom. -- Robert Heinlein (Colonel Dubois in Starship Troopers)

One way or another, any government which remains in power is a representative government. If your city government is a crooked machine, then it is because you and your neighbors prefer it that way -- prefer it to the effort of running your own affairs. – Robert Heinlein

That a free citizen should have to go before a committee, hat in hand, and pray for permission to bear arms - fantastic! Arm your daughter, sir, and pay no attention to petty bureaucrats. -- Robert Heinlein ("Doc" in Red Planet)

A slave cannot be freed, save he do it himself. Nor can you enslave a free man; the very most you can do is kill him. -- Robert Heinlein

The law is whatever you can convince a court it is. – 'Betty Sorenson' in The Star Beast by Robert Heinlein

Mr. Jones, has it ever occurred to you, the world being what it is, that women sometimes prefer not to appear too bright? -- "Ellie," in Starman Jones by Robert Heinlein

Oh, Sam? It was Jubal Harshaw, wasn't it?

pax
 
Avoid strong drink,

it can make you shoot at tax collectors....and miss. :evil:

Another RAH fan here. When I was growing up, my parents were working quite diligently to install a properly pacifistic, socialist mindset into my little head. Much to their dismay, I happend to get my hands on a copy of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" when I was about 10 years of age. After that, all hope they had of bringing me up to think "correctly" was lost. :D
 
I got hooked on RAH with Glory Road and Farnham's Freehold. And then bought every book I could find with his name on it.

I've been reading Sci-fi for 40 years and he's still my favorite author. No other author has been as captivating as Heinlein.
 
Heh, ExtremeDooty, what a coincidence -- same RAH books I read first. Farnham's Freehold certainly must be responsible for germinating the seed of survivalist spirit in many of us ...
 
How interesting to talk about Heinlen. I actually remember Rocket Ship Galileo, Have Spacesuit Will Travel, Number of the Beast, Friday, and the best short story of them all, The Green Hills of Earth. How does the song go...


We pray for one last landing
On home that gave us birth,
Let me rest my eyes
On the fleecy skies
And the cool Green Hills of Earth.

I'm sure I got it wrong somewhere, but when I was a kid and reading all of RAH's books this song stuck with me. Mike
 
Add me to the list. I forget what Heinlein I read first, most likely Space Cadet or Rocket Ship Gallileo and then collections of his short stories (some first printed in Saturday Evening Post!) that eventually made up the Future History.

I got all excited when they put out the uncut edition of Stranger. But I think the edited version I first read forty years ago is better.

His non-fiction is good, too. Tramp Royale is a hoot. Pity I loaned mine out and it didn't come home.
 
My middle child, Adam (who's birthday was today interestingly enough), was named after the leader of the lunar revolution. Our only girl is named Maureen.

'Nuf said ;) .
 
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