Romanian AK-clone accuracy inquiry...

[Sarge111]

To spite Michael Moore, Rosie O'Donnel, Sarah Brady and every other pink-blooded anti-gunner on earth, I recently ordered my first "AK"; a Romanian SAR-1 in the venerable 7.62x39 chambering. I also did it to annoy my fellow LE contemporaries who seem to think that only black poodle-shooters or overgrown wonder-nines w/ buttstocks are worthy considerations as 'patrol rifles'.

My caliber choice was based upon the notion that the .30 Rusky would be more effective against miscreants semi-protected by automobiles, particularly with something like the more recent 150-154 grain loads. And yes, I just may shoot a deer with it eventually. If I do it will be on private land where the 'evil gun' syndrome will affect no one but me and Bambi.

While existing in that awful limbio which exists between order and delivery, I have researched this matter of accuracy at some length- been to all the AK boards etc. and what I am NOT finding is meaningful information of the 'range report' variety where Joe Blow has taken his Romanian Ak out, benched it and grouped it at meaningful distances beyond 25 yards, and recorded the results. This is what I need, and I expect that this insightful group of folks have owned a few of these, and evaluated them beyond bump-firing a 30-round mag in the general direction of a farm pond.

So, lets hear it. Any Romainan AK variant, 10 round, Hi-cap or whatever; how did it shoot for you, what ammo did you use, etc. I offer my sincere thanks for those who respond to this inquiry, and will respond in kind when my Romanian arrives, and I have had an opportunity to conduct a meaninful evaluation of same.

 

[Aikibiker]

I have only shot ten rounds out of an SAR-1 that some fellow at the range was kind enough to let shoot.

I am not much of a rifleman at all, but I found the SAR to be very accurate at 50 yards. Much more so then I am.

The only disconcerting thing about the AK-47 type is the sound of the bolt hitting the back of the receiver cover, but that can be fixed cheaply and easily with a one of Blackjack's drop in recoil buffers.

I Wouldn't feel bad about laying down money for one. If I had any money to lay down.

For more info on buffers and such go here: Romanian Kalashnikov Rifles

 

[MAKOwner]

My SAR1 shoots around 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards, with me resting my elbows on a shooting bench, gun unsupported otherwise. I don't often try to actually shoot a 5 shot group, so that is just a rough average. I've actually gotten down to like a 2.5" group with my SAR2 the few times I've tried. I think they could do a little better number one if my eyesight didn't suck, number two if I tried harder with a better rest (not really seriously shooting for good groups, and I don't do it often...), and number three if I used ammo other than bottom of the barrel Wolf cheap stuff... Plenty accurate for what I want, and so far they have been 100% perfect reliability wise. Really love my little SAR2 in 5.45x39...

I actually wouldn't use a buffer though, supposed to cut down on reliability is what I've heard. I don't find it disconcerting to shoot AKs without them...

That has got to the most politically incorrect patrol weapon you could have picked though-- I love it, lol...

 

[TIMC]

4 - 5" groups with mine at 100 yards as well. 1/2 - 1" at 50 yards. good enough to down a whitetail at 100 yards. Enjoy your new toy. I love mine.

 

[Freightman]

Never shot my Madi (AK) for group but will put 30 on a small target 8" 8,9,10 ring so cant be to bad. The problem with a AK is it is so much fun just to empty the clip you forget to take time to aim the best you can.

 

[Jedi_7.62]

Nice pick!!!!!

I'm about as informal as you can get but I shoot 8" paper plates at about 50 yards and pretty much keep towards center on whole magazine w/ cheap wolf and surplus ammo.

No benchrest or anything of the sort, just standing upright.

AND my eyesight sucks horribly....

My AK is the most reliable thing I've ever owned only other thing on par is my Makarov.

She won't let you down.

And a load of fun too...Good thing ammo is cheap..

 

[SteelyDan]

It's funny how accuracy questions about AKs and SKSs get answered much more, shall we say, "informally," than questions about bolt actions. I have no intention of disturbing this trend.

My most common target is a 6" to 8" round cross-section of a piece of firewood at about 60 yards. It's really hard to miss the wood, even at rapid fire. Move the log out to 100 or 120 yards, and you have to pay a little more attention, but you'll still hit it 8 out of 10 times, shooting standing without any rest. If you use the hood of a car as a rest, and shoot at soda pop cans, you'll hit the can about 70% of the time at 80 yards. That's my experience, anyway, and I'm certainly not a great shot.

 

[Dave R]

I've been shooting a SAR-3 for a coupla years now.

When the barrel is warm, and I'm shooting Wolf ammo, I get maybe 4-5 MOA (4-5" at 100 yards).

However, when the barrel is cold, and I use good ammo (mine likes PMP "Gazelle"), I can consistently get 2" at 100 yards. Last week I got 1.5" on the first group.

 

[Sarge111]

Great!

This is just what I was looking for. If the rifle will shoot into two MOA with three rounds of decent ammo from a cold barrel, I'll be plenty happy. Considering all the oddly-hung plumbing that decorates the skinny little barrel of these carbines, I would expect the accuracy to go south when they get hot.

"Patrol rifle" was used in the generic sense; I've been plain-clothes for several years. A more accurate description of it might be the "hell in a handbasket" rifle, because if it proves reliable and accurate within the above parameters- it'll be what I reach for when things start going there.

Personally, I think the 30-40 round mags render this handy little implement a little cumbersome, and am leaning toward the 20-round Hungarians available from KY or Tapco. Anybody tried these yet?

 

[Chipperman]

Even with a Drum on it, the SAR-1 is pretty light and handy. It is balanced very well. I wouldn't worry about getting shorter mags if I were you.
You just have to change them more often that way.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

While I haven't benched my SAR-1 I do find that the biggest factor limiting accuracy is the crummy sights. One should be able to get better accuracy with a low powered scope or a dot sight. I may eventually try either a Mojo peep sight or a Kreb's A2-style rear sight.

The 20 round Hungarian mags are a good idea to make the rifle handier. However, it's not bad at all with the 30 rounders. I would not use 40 round mags since they would inhibit going prone.

BTW, I have ~450 rounds through my SAR-1 without a single bobble.

Have fun with it!

 

[goon]

I also want a couple of 20 rounders. They would be better for prone and bench shooting.
I know that an AK ain't a benchrest rifle, so don't get on my case.
To answer your question, my SAR-1 was apparently a bad one.
It only did about 8" at 100 yds from the bench. Others have reported much better, with 3-5" being the average for most good AK's.
I have since bought another AK that I plan on keeping.
The AK has a niche that other rifles can't fill.
I like it.

 

[DrDremel]

After owning many AK rifles in 7.62x39, I have found that the Romanian SAR is as good as the others other than the VEPR as I have never fired one. Even the SLR95 I had did not shoot any better than the SAR rifles I have. I even tried 3 of them. For AK rifles expect 3 inch groups at best with 4 being normal and 5 or 6 at worst. The surplus ammo out there is good. My Ruger 77/MK II Bolt gun in 7.62X39 shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with most surplus ammo. THe SAR rifles have the folowing going for them. They are compact, They are the lightest variants I have seen for sale in the US, they are relatively inexpensive, They have a sight mount on the reciever, They don't have a butthole stock as many older variants do. There are two things to looks for though. Canted sight and gas block. Some are off to one side. Trigger slap. This can be fixed with a file or dremel. I have come to the conclusion that the SAR is as good as any of the other AK rifles out there and are the best deal in AK rifles.

 

[Sarge111]

Thank you all...

I stand duly appraised regarding the issue of canted sights and trigger slap.

The sights are no big deal; I used to take cumbersome, inaccurate old SKS rifles and remove the front sight/bayo lug, bob the barrel to 18", carefully recrown it, then cut off the bayonet lug, reverse the works and remount it after cutting the barrel sleeve down to 1.5"- whereupon it became a flash hider/muzzle protector. The resulting product was significantly handier and always shot better. I took great care in remounting it straight up, and while (as previously noted) the Rusky autos are not bench guns, a surprising number of them would group well under 2" after such treatment, at 100 yards.

While there is no room to play with barrel length on the AK, I suspect that a lot of them could stand a little crown work. Many AK's & SKS's I have examined looked like the barrel was crowned by a chimp with a chainsaw file. How the bullet exits the tube has a profound effect on where it lands thereafter.

And yes, the issue sights are pretty sorry. I shoot my best with apertures, and will experiment with what can be done at the original sight location. I like the looks of the new receiver-mounted version, but suspect that movement of the receiver cover may negate any advantages of mounting the sight closer to the eye. I see we have some folks who are lined up to try the new version, and I will watch with interest for their reports of how well this actually works.

Good shootin' to you all.

 

[TIMC]

Your welcome Sarge, good luck with yoour AK. I know you will be pleased. Save your empty milk jugs for a couple of months, fill them with water, find a place in the country and let that AK open up. you'll love it!