RRA Varmint - 24" barrel worth it?
- Thread starter RichAggie
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spazzymcgee
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I'm not familiar with this particular rifle, but depending on the caliber, a 24" barrel won't be any more accurate than an 18" or 20" barrel. I've been told that 20" is perfect for a .308, and that any longer of a barrel may even make the rifle less accurate. I am only basing this on a friend of a friend's experience with a remington 700 though.
Just my opinion:
Bushmaster, RRA, and a few others make 24 inchers. These are speciality rifles usually with match barrels and are for punching dimes out at great distances with the proper ammo. I do not know if RRA shows some of the targets shot with their rifles but if you care to look go to Bushmaster and look at their postings.
http://www.bushmaster.com/documentation/SWATArticle405.pdf might answer some of your questions. The information on their web sight is pretty good.
Having said that I personally feel it is much harder to sell a 24" by any manufacture due to limited market share. Everyone's mental picture of the ARs seems to be 14" to 16" with occasionally a 20" thrown in.
Both of my long barreled ARs (20" and 24") list new for close to $1400 a piece. The most I paid for either was for the 20" with a decent scope which was $1100 from a dealer. The AR was brand new never fired.
The 24" was used but never shot and it was less than $1000 with a scope..
You are asking about accuracy thus the link to some info at Bushmaster.
If you ever plan on selling you new 24" super duper scoped Varmint killer extraordinaire I would try to find a slightly used one and be sure you got it at a good price. Just a thought. Tonyangel had 2 - 20" ARs you might send a pm if he does not come on board for comment; but there are others.
Bushmaster, RRA, and a few others make 24 inchers. These are speciality rifles usually with match barrels and are for punching dimes out at great distances with the proper ammo. I do not know if RRA shows some of the targets shot with their rifles but if you care to look go to Bushmaster and look at their postings.
http://www.bushmaster.com/documentation/SWATArticle405.pdf might answer some of your questions. The information on their web sight is pretty good.
Having said that I personally feel it is much harder to sell a 24" by any manufacture due to limited market share. Everyone's mental picture of the ARs seems to be 14" to 16" with occasionally a 20" thrown in.
Both of my long barreled ARs (20" and 24") list new for close to $1400 a piece. The most I paid for either was for the 20" with a decent scope which was $1100 from a dealer. The AR was brand new never fired.
The 24" was used but never shot and it was less than $1000 with a scope..
You are asking about accuracy thus the link to some info at Bushmaster.
If you ever plan on selling you new 24" super duper scoped Varmint killer extraordinaire I would try to find a slightly used one and be sure you got it at a good price. Just a thought. Tonyangel had 2 - 20" ARs you might send a pm if he does not come on board for comment; but there are others.
Rail Driver
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FWIW, my 18" is just right for my purposes... I'll be shooting out to 500 meters this winter, and 18" is just right out to there. I think I'd want a 20" or maybe a 24" if I were shooting 800 meters, but inside 500 meters, 18" is plenty.
release879
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I propose a slight revamp of this thread. I'm a soldier in the US Army posting from FOB Warrior, Iraq.
Question 1. I have a choice between the RRA 24" varminter and the Bushmaster 24" varminter special, both of them stainless steel bull barrels. The RRA is $1135.00 plus upgrades I can select from the manufacturer, the Bushmaster is $1365.00, no available upgrades. I have heard good things about both, so I'm asking THR.
With the RRA I have some selections available from the manufacturer I don't fully understand, such as:
A choice between a 1:8 barrel and a 1:12 barrel. I understand that those mean 1 turn every 8 inches, so that one obviously turns faster, and one turn every 12 inches, but what really is the difference? What are the advantages to each? The Bushmaster's barrel is 1:9.
A bead blasted barrel for an extra 35 dollars. What is that, and what exactly does that mean or do in terms of performance?
And a chromed bolt carrier group. Other than looking cool, I don't think it does anything for performance, correct me if I'm wrong, but are there any disadvantages to having it chromed?
The RRA also can take 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington with the .223 Wylde chamber.
These arent the only customizations, just the ones I don't understand. They offer various charging handles, grips, handguards, and buttstocks.
So basically, I am leaning more towards the RRA, for reason of lower cost for essentially the same rifle with more customizability. Is there any reason I should go with the Bushmaster (better quality, better parts, etc.)? I'm not necessarily on a budget, just seems silly to pay more for the same rifle, unless the Bushmaster is just that much better.
I plan on using this rifle as a medium to long range rifle (possibly out to 800-1000 meters.) Are these rifles capable of making 1000 meter shots with any semblance of accuracy?
Question 2.My other question is about the legality of an AR-15 capable of accepting a detachable magazine in California. I can have it sent to California, Mississippi, or Michigan, but it would eventually find its way to California with the rest of my guns. I can't read the laws for CA on weapons ownership, it makes me want to cry and seems so vague, it confuses me.
Help a soldier out please? And no quips about being an AR newbie but carrying an M16A4 every day. A used and reused M16 isn't the same as a brand new civilian AR-15. I've only gotta shoot mine out to 300 meters with ironsights (not that daunting of a task, I found out).
Question 1. I have a choice between the RRA 24" varminter and the Bushmaster 24" varminter special, both of them stainless steel bull barrels. The RRA is $1135.00 plus upgrades I can select from the manufacturer, the Bushmaster is $1365.00, no available upgrades. I have heard good things about both, so I'm asking THR.
With the RRA I have some selections available from the manufacturer I don't fully understand, such as:
A choice between a 1:8 barrel and a 1:12 barrel. I understand that those mean 1 turn every 8 inches, so that one obviously turns faster, and one turn every 12 inches, but what really is the difference? What are the advantages to each? The Bushmaster's barrel is 1:9.
A bead blasted barrel for an extra 35 dollars. What is that, and what exactly does that mean or do in terms of performance?
And a chromed bolt carrier group. Other than looking cool, I don't think it does anything for performance, correct me if I'm wrong, but are there any disadvantages to having it chromed?
The RRA also can take 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington with the .223 Wylde chamber.
These arent the only customizations, just the ones I don't understand. They offer various charging handles, grips, handguards, and buttstocks.
So basically, I am leaning more towards the RRA, for reason of lower cost for essentially the same rifle with more customizability. Is there any reason I should go with the Bushmaster (better quality, better parts, etc.)? I'm not necessarily on a budget, just seems silly to pay more for the same rifle, unless the Bushmaster is just that much better.
I plan on using this rifle as a medium to long range rifle (possibly out to 800-1000 meters.) Are these rifles capable of making 1000 meter shots with any semblance of accuracy?
Question 2.My other question is about the legality of an AR-15 capable of accepting a detachable magazine in California. I can have it sent to California, Mississippi, or Michigan, but it would eventually find its way to California with the rest of my guns. I can't read the laws for CA on weapons ownership, it makes me want to cry and seems so vague, it confuses me.
Help a soldier out please? And no quips about being an AR newbie but carrying an M16A4 every day. A used and reused M16 isn't the same as a brand new civilian AR-15. I've only gotta shoot mine out to 300 meters with ironsights (not that daunting of a task, I found out).
The twist is the biggest decision to make ... faster twist shoots longer (and therefore heavier) bullets. If you want to shoot p-dogs or other small varmints with 40 - 52 grain bullets, then a slow twist is fine. Those are light bullets though and you won't be shooting in the mildest of breezes out beyond 300 or so.
1:9 twist is generally an "all-purpose" compromise - figure bullet weights (this is like religion - others will have slightly different views on twist vs weight) in the 52 - 69 range. Again, how far do you want to shoot? HP shooters need to go to 600 yards and they uniformly choose 1:8 or 1:7.7 and 1:7 twists in order to stabilize the 75, 77, 80 and 82 grain bullets used at that range.
How far and to hit what? That'll tell you the twist to use. With good bullets that won't 'explode,' the faster twist rifles will still shoot as low as 52gr bullets very well - I use them for reduced course HP matches in both my 1:7 and 1:8. If I were you with what I understand your interests are, I'd get a 1:7 and have the range of 52 - 82 grain bullets available for use. You definitely do want to get into reloading!!
Bead blasting is just taking the high shine of the stainless barrel - think a matte finish - cosmetic only IMNSHO.
1000 yards is possible with the 80 and 82gr bullets but it's tricky given the amount of wind deflection of such light bullets - some guys fool around with it but the more serious 1K shooters are into Palma guns and nothing lighter than about 155 grains in 308 or a few high speed lighter 6.5mm rounds.
Chromed bolt carrier should last longer - I've never had a wear issue so I probably wouldn't pay extra for it myself. Just make sure you're not getting a chromed barrel if accuracy is the goal - they do last longer but at the expense of accuracy ... barrel will be shot out by 4K rounds, a reasonable lifespan. Shot out meaning won't hold the 10 ring at 600, still useful for reduced course accuracy.
Can't help re California - I've got enough issues keeping track of the anti-gun wackos in Illinois!
/Bryan
1:9 twist is generally an "all-purpose" compromise - figure bullet weights (this is like religion - others will have slightly different views on twist vs weight) in the 52 - 69 range. Again, how far do you want to shoot? HP shooters need to go to 600 yards and they uniformly choose 1:8 or 1:7.7 and 1:7 twists in order to stabilize the 75, 77, 80 and 82 grain bullets used at that range.
How far and to hit what? That'll tell you the twist to use. With good bullets that won't 'explode,' the faster twist rifles will still shoot as low as 52gr bullets very well - I use them for reduced course HP matches in both my 1:7 and 1:8. If I were you with what I understand your interests are, I'd get a 1:7 and have the range of 52 - 82 grain bullets available for use. You definitely do want to get into reloading!!
Bead blasting is just taking the high shine of the stainless barrel - think a matte finish - cosmetic only IMNSHO.
1000 yards is possible with the 80 and 82gr bullets but it's tricky given the amount of wind deflection of such light bullets - some guys fool around with it but the more serious 1K shooters are into Palma guns and nothing lighter than about 155 grains in 308 or a few high speed lighter 6.5mm rounds.
Chromed bolt carrier should last longer - I've never had a wear issue so I probably wouldn't pay extra for it myself. Just make sure you're not getting a chromed barrel if accuracy is the goal - they do last longer but at the expense of accuracy ... barrel will be shot out by 4K rounds, a reasonable lifespan. Shot out meaning won't hold the 10 ring at 600, still useful for reduced course accuracy.
Can't help re California - I've got enough issues keeping track of the anti-gun wackos in Illinois!
/Bryan
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release879
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Thank you Canuck-IL for clearing up those issues for me, and my last question still remains. Is there a notable difference in performance or quality between Bushmaster and Rock River Arms?
I have 3 Bushmasters not because I sought them out but I ended up with them. 14.5, 20", and 24"
I like cheap ammo because my base line theory is if struck by a 223 it does not matter if the round cost 10 or 95 cents it is gonna hurt. Well I am having to change my theory on the Bushmasters. Also all my shooting is 350 yards or less so take that into consideration.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=548179
We have some long shooters on THR and am really surprised that some more have not chimed in?
I like cheap ammo because my base line theory is if struck by a 223 it does not matter if the round cost 10 or 95 cents it is gonna hurt. Well I am having to change my theory on the Bushmasters. Also all my shooting is 350 yards or less so take that into consideration.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=548179
We have some long shooters on THR and am really surprised that some more have not chimed in?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
release, there are differences of opinion about both Bushmaster and RRA, but as near as I can tell they apparently come from possible quality control issues for some years' manufacture but not for all years' manufacture. Hard to tell, really. Some folks swear by them, some folks swear at them.
RichAggie, if you're serious about varminting or shots beyond 300 to 400 yards, in general the more velocity, the better. Flatter trajectory, less wind drift.
My own .223 experience is with a 22" barrel. I zero at 200 yards. The holdover on prairie dogs at 300 yards is around five or six inches with bullet of 50 to 55 grains.
RichAggie, if you're serious about varminting or shots beyond 300 to 400 yards, in general the more velocity, the better. Flatter trajectory, less wind drift.
My own .223 experience is with a 22" barrel. I zero at 200 yards. The holdover on prairie dogs at 300 yards is around five or six inches with bullet of 50 to 55 grains.
If the BM is really only available in 1:9 then I'd get the RRA so as to get a 1:7 barrel.
In overall quality I don't think there's a sig difference between them ... as with most guns by reputable makers, there are likely bigger differences gun-to-gun than there are brand to brand, assuming comparable option sets. Sometimes the tolerance stack just goes against you (Monday am guns, just like cars), other times all the stars are aligned and you get an uncommonly good shooter. Either company will back up their guns so, go for the features that you want at the best bang-for-the-buck ratio.
/B
In overall quality I don't think there's a sig difference between them ... as with most guns by reputable makers, there are likely bigger differences gun-to-gun than there are brand to brand, assuming comparable option sets. Sometimes the tolerance stack just goes against you (Monday am guns, just like cars), other times all the stars are aligned and you get an uncommonly good shooter. Either company will back up their guns so, go for the features that you want at the best bang-for-the-buck ratio.
/B
Thanks Art. My upper window will be about 400 yds shooting south Texas coyotes. They are always crossing the senderos while deer hunting - usually in the 200-300 yd range.
I think I am leaning towards 20". It sounds like that last 4" will be more weight than benefit for my range.
I think I am leaning towards 20". It sounds like that last 4" will be more weight than benefit for my range.
Coal Dragger
member
I don't really see much advantage to the longer barrel on a .223. Most .223 factory rounds are made to get nearly complete powder burn in 16-20" of barrel, so the extra length is giving diminishing returns.
Even handloads with slower burning powders and heavier bullets probably don't need that much barrel in a .223. Not to mention gas port pressures in an AR will be unacceptable running loads like that.
Even handloads with slower burning powders and heavier bullets probably don't need that much barrel in a .223. Not to mention gas port pressures in an AR will be unacceptable running loads like that.
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