rubber buckshot

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ohgrady

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My brother lives in an apartment complex (in a small 1 BR unit) and has a Mossberg 500A for HD. Out of concern that he has neighbors above him and on both sides of his place, he picked up a box of rubber buckshot.

I'm wondering if that is more likely to pass through the wall/ceiling than say #8 shot. Anyone know much about the rubber buckshot?
 
IMO, if the dude gets to the point where he needs to pull the trigger on a threat, he should be using buck shot and not rubber.
 
Anyone know much about the rubber buckshot?
Click to expand...

Only that if you utilize it for HD, you're counting not only on your weapon and training, but for the BG to do his part and drop like a stone out of psychological effect. Rubber buckshot is to deter; not the response I want to use to a deadly threat. Rather, shoot to stop the attack with something that will make it physically impossible for the threat to continue.

Bird shot is for birds. Rubber buck shot has applications too, but self-defense from a deadly threat is not one of these.

It's good to be concerned about neighbors, and to consider all aspects of discharging a firearm in an urban area ahead of time. The best thing he could do to this end is get training on the tool he intends to use.
 
If your brother is afraid of putting a load of shot through the wall into an adjoining apartment then he needs to put a laser sight on that shotgun and not pull the trigger until the light is on the perp's chest.
 
Less than lethal devices are for less than lethal situations. If someone is in your home uninvited, will not leave and you feel threatened... I would not consider this a less than lethal situation. If you do, you might be the one on the receiving end of a lethal attack.

The old adage holds true throughout the ages: Dont bring a knife to a gun fight.

If you are pulling a firearm out on someone you best be justified and you best be willing to take the SOB out with real, viable defensive ammunition and tactics.

Police use less than lethal to control crowds and/or in situations where the subject is posing a non lethal threat. Otherwise, it's real gun time.

While overpenetration is a valid concern for your neighbors, if your brother took the time to learn the skills necessary to properly use the firearm and hit his target, there's not much to worry about with the penetration issue.

Can someone name a few cases where a round hit a bad guy Center mass and then wounded an innocent? Likely not. Get the point?!

Use buckshot in a defensive shotgun of no less than 20gauge.

Or go get a cannister of pepper spray or better yet a good taser... It'll be more effective at incapacitating an intruder than rubber buckshot. Leave firearms to those who know how and when to use them.
 
Moving this to S&T because I think it represents a serious strategic question -- and ERROR on your brother's part.

A firearm is a lethal weapon. Use of a firearm is use of lethal force -- both legally, and due to the fact that ANYTHING that comes out of the barrel of a gun can kill.

Rubber buckshot/bullets were designed for specific purposes (crowd dispersal & riot control) and to be used in very specific ways by trained individuals. They are neither "safe" nor adequate for use in home defense.

They are not "safe" in that they absolutely can kill at home-defense distances, and they are not "adequate" because they won't reliably penetrate which unacceptably reduces their liklihood of stopping a violent attack.

Many things can be said about non-lethal means of convincing an attacker to cease their activities -- the mere presence, sight, and/or sound of a weapon and determined defender may be enough, the impact/pain/blunt trauma of a less-lethal projectile may be enough -- but if you are in a situation where you are justified in using a firearm, you MUST be prepared to take a life and your weapon must be capable of reliably damaging the critical function centers.

Rubber shot is the worst of both worlds.
 
If over-penetration of walls is the concern, use #8 birdshot. At real close range (< 10y) it will work, it isn't great but it should stop an assailant with a good COM torso hit. A guy at my trap club was accidently hit by a load of #8 from about 10 feet away and it killed him.

Rubber buckshot is for dispersing rioters without serious injury.

00 & 000 Buck is for serious defense work when over-penetration isn't a concern.
 
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Birdshot is for birds at any damn distant other than a contact shot.

Like I said... train well using the right ammo, then overpenetration shouldn't be such a concern.

CAN ANYONE PROVIDE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF A BAD GUY GETTING HIT CENTER MASS, THE PROJECTILE PASSING THROUGH AND INJURING/KILLING AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER?!?!

If the above question can not be answered, then why is everyone SO damned concerned about overpenetration? Because theoretically it can happen?!?! I'm gonna start a thread on this question alone. I really want an answer.
 
mopar- Do you think they're just gonna stand there and let you shoot them?

Perhaps they may step to the left, right, or duck down?

There is NO guarantee regardless of your training that you will be able to hit CM.

Hell,even if you have CM lasered in and pull the trigger they may have moved in between the split second that just took.

If you live in an apartment you damn well should be concerned about overpenetration.
 
He needs #4 buck at a minimum. If I am pointing a firearm at someone, then discharging it...I am WAAAYYY more worried about stopping the threat that has me in fear for my life than whayt might (may, could, what if) happen if I miss.

It's like bringing a fire extinguisher on a boat instead of a life preserver. What if there is a fire...well, drowning is way more likely. (My analogy breaks down a little because a boat should have both...but the point stands, prepare for the statistically most likely worse case, not the less likely "what if?"
 
Lethal means just that,
If you have questions, go to Box-O-Truth, they have an entire section proving and disproving stuff like this. I like the site, it's like the Mythbusters of guns n ammo.

Oh and consider when cops us LTL, the have guys (plural usually) with LETHAL force standing behind them...
 
"If you live in an apartment you damn well should be concerned about overpenetration."


And hope that if your neighbors have firearms they are also concerned about overpenretration.
 
shappa,

Go find my other thread I started entitled the theory of overpenetration... some good insightful post and research is provided.
 
I'm wondering if that is more likely to pass through the wall/ceiling than say #8 shot. Anyone know much about the rubber buckshot?
Click to expand...

Rubber Buckshot is a BAD IDEA!

but to answer your question: No, rubber buckshot doesn't penetrate worth a damn. He seriously has more a chance of it ricocheting back at him than penetrating a wall. I have the tried and true 590 and went through a box of Fiocchi Rubber Buckshot and couldn't even get it to break thru flimsy particle board at any reasonable distance.
 
And hope that if your neighbors have firearms they are also concerned about overpenretration.
Click to expand...

That too.




For the record,I am not and have not advocated using rubber buckshot.
I don't live in an apartment, if I did I wouldn't be using my 12 gauge with 00buck.

Honestly, I would inquire with the leasing office if there were any kind of barrier in between wall units. Some apartments have barriers in between that will stop some munitions.

If I just had cheapo drywall and lived in an apartment I'd probably use a good baseball bat and a taser.

I don't want to have my round go through a wall and kill my neighbor's toddler because I decided to shoot at a crackhead that tried to take my tv and decided to beat my ass instead.
 
Rubber shot has a high probability of being lethal unless fired at targets beyond 10 feet. Make no mistake in it's use since it's not likely to be lethal much beyond that range and won't serve your brother's purpose of providing a lethal ammunition type that won't penetrate into the next apartment.

Will rubber shot go through dry wall and how many layers? You'll have to find out if anyone has done the tests or you'll have to perform them yourself. Be sure that the distance to the wall is within a few feet to simulate a miss or negligent discharge since you're trying to determine if it can harm the folks in the next apartment.

This is possibly one of the worst combinations for home defensive ammo. It won't stop a threat beyond a third of a typical indoor defensive shooting distance and it leaves you with no option but to use the shotgun as a club when you can't stop the attack.
 
Sam1911 said:
Rubber buckshot/bullets were designed for specific purposes (crowd dispersal & riot control) and to be used in very specific ways by trained individuals. They are neither "safe" nor adequate for use in home defense.

They are not "safe" in that they absolutely can kill at home-defense distances, and they are not "adequate" because they won't reliably penetrate which unacceptably reduces their liklihood of stopping a violent attack.

Many things can be said about non-lethal means of convincing an attacker to cease their activities -- the mere presence, sight, and/or sound of a weapon and determined defender may be enough, the impact/pain/blunt trauma of a less-lethal projectile may be enough -- but if you are in a situation where you are justified in using a firearm, you MUST be prepared to take a life and your weapon must be capable of reliably damaging the critical function centers.

Rubber shot is the worst of both worlds.
Click to expand...
+1

Very well stated.
 
I told my little brother about some of my concerns about the rubber buckshot. He was waiting for his order from Sportsmans Guide with his rubber buckshot and after talking to me took a box of my Federal (Wal-Mart) $4.75 box of #6 shot shells while he pondered the situation.

I don't think he has any idea of what is between the walls of the apartments. He will probably be afraid to ask the management for fear of why they want to know.

I like the idea of some testing on the rubber buckshot. A couple of sheets of drywall would be pretty cheap, maybe some water-filled milk jugs too?


On a side note, I am glad he's thinking about his neighbors. He also ordered a box of Glaser Safety Slugs for his Hungarian PA-63 9x18.
 
I like the idea of some testing on the rubber buckshot. A couple of sheets of drywall would be pretty cheap, maybe some water-filled milk jugs too?
Click to expand...

And either they'll penetrate or they won't, but what have you proven in the end? Less lethal ammunition is still less effective ammunition for self-defense. Would not recommend asking the property manager unless he's felt out the idea of this topic with them. If it's like most other homes up north, it'd dry wall, insulation, 2x4 studs, and more dry wall on the other side.
 
How about a round or two of the rubber followed by some buckshot or slugs? A deterrent followed by the good stuff. A warning shot with attitude. Just thinking out loud.:confused:
 
A warning shot

rdb,

BAD idea... for several reasons.

1) You are responsible for EVERY shot you fire- and 'every bullet has a billet.' Advocating slinging lead around willy nilly isn't looked on favorably here...

2) What happens to you if your 'warning shot' is the only one you can fire? If your firearm breaks, jams, or whatever when you fire that 'warning shot?' What then?

3) If things get bad and you run out of ammo, what then? How much would that 'warning shot' round be worth to you at that point?

Etc.

fwiw,

lpl
 
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