Ruger .380

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I wonder if its made by Kel-Tec? They are almost to much of a clone to be anything else, even the exploded diagram looks like all the parts would interchange. What really makes me wonder, though, Ruger is big on stainless, so they make a pocket gun, out of carbon steel? Interestingly, Kel-Tec only makes carbon steel guns...
 
Looks good to me. They are going to have to go with a very small font to fit their billboard on the side of this little puppy.

I like Keltec, the company, a lot. I respect what they have done but a little competition should keep them on their toes.

Nice job Ruger!
 
Funny to see whats happening now that the old mans not around. I have the Ruger book by Wilson and someone in there says, IIRC it's Ruger himself "We just don't make small pistols"

They finally got greedy and/or wised up that not selling such things or not selling the full capacity magazines is making them lose a lot of $.
 
It sure looks like a kel-tec to me, right down to the huge seam in the plastic and that pin sticking out.
 
I had a kel-tec for a while before I decided a CCW should go bang every time the trigger is pulled. Then reload the next round automatically. If Kel-Tec's product needs to be fluffed and buffed to be somewhat reliable, maybe they should consider using some of that fancy CNC machinery to do that in their friggin' factory if they're so,
firmly committed to the development and production of novel, high performance firearms.
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Somehow I don't expect that the Rugers will enter the marketplace with the same sort of issues. Good for them.
 
Ruger has revamped their "brick " pistols by introducing the P345, then the SR9, and now this .380 LCP. Ruger is finally swinging their big ship into the waters that other firearm companies have been sailing in for quite some time.

I wish them the best, though I'm still miffed about what they did to the Mark II.
 
Last September, I got the hots to have a "project gun" or two, so I bought a Kel-Tec P3AT after carefully reading about it here forum and on the KTOG forum. The LGS price for a hard chrome slide P3AT was $279.00; I got a second magazine when I bought the pistol, and I ordered out some accessories from Kel-Tec--a mag extension to try, and finger extensions.

I initially and repeatedly had intermittent trouble with FTFs and with the magazines shucking its rounds. Nonetheless, the gun shot quite well for me once I figured out gripping techniques and did a shorter break-in period--about 150 rounds. However, at best it could be considered a BUG, and it really didn't even qualify for that.

Eventually, I figured out that the mag release had been shaved--it's plastic, and I had 'slammed the mag home' the first few times I shot it. The result was that the catch would not retain the magazine. I ordered out the spare parts--Kel-Tec supplies them for free, and even included a couple of items I didn't know enough to order--and installed a new release. It's worked fine ever since. However, I hold the release while I eject and insert magazines now.

Kel-Tec deservedly has a good reputation as an innovative company, and pistols like these have been on the leading edge of pocket pistol design (far beyond the PPK design). They provide excellent CS, given the parameters of being an inexpensive manufacturer. I now consider the P3AT to be a tactical reload tool (my primary carry is a j-frame) and it clearly fulfills a niche in making available a serious-enough-gun which, if available, is much better no gun at all, or a Colt Pocket Pistol in .25ACP.

Ruger's entry is a welcome addition, and will provide the competition needed to improve the breed. I note that the Ruger appears to have a metal release; they've been studying the KTOG forums, I bet. However, I wouldn't rush out and buy the first one in the shop--and I would also wait until they do a hard chrome / whatever slide.

Jim H.
 
I'd buy one... Ruger has an excellent reputation and they back their products with excellent Customer Service from what I hear..

KelTec sales should take a hit, as the Ruger "appears" higher quality..

IF I were buying one or the other I'd buy the Ruger..

JP
 
I'd rather see companies come up with their own designs rather than copy someone elses. That Ruger will not sell for less than a KT so I am thinking $300 to start.
 
On every forum and in everythread discussing this new Ruger, it's all being compared to a kel-tec. Maybe it's me but in that size package to be anywhere ergonomic, there's only so much that can be done as true also with the operating system. Big deal it resembles a kel-Tec whoopie. How many 1911's manufacturers are there? How many AR makers are there? How many single action revovlers are being made by different companies? Heck even bolt guns are basically all the same desgn.
Guess I'm the only one that can see past any reselblances to other makes/models nd see this for what it is, a new Ruger model. While I'm not needing a handgun in this classification or niche, I'll definately look one over. Darn good bet they'll stand behind this one like they do their other products.
 
BlkHawk,
I'm not slamming them, just stating an opinion. However, I loved my P3AT and if this new Ruger solved the peening issue, then it is good to go. In South Florida, the .380 is usually good enough since noone wears heavy coats and whatnot.
 
Oh if it could have been a 9mm...

I wonder if its made by Kel-Tec? They are almost to much of a clone to be anything else, even the exploded diagram looks like all the parts would interchange. What really makes me wonder, though, Ruger is big on stainless, so they make a pocket gun, out of carbon steel? Interestingly, Kel-Tec only makes carbon steel guns...
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See I'd think about it going the other way. KT has a terrible time making products fast enough to keep up with demand. A partnership with someone with large metal parts production capabilities like Ruger might let them use their own machine time for their other guns and get more product out. It doesn't look like thats what has happened here, but it might have been a good idea...
 
Didn't Ruger win a lawsuit against AMT for making rifles and pistols (Lightning) that looked too much like Rugers (me thinks it was $2 million)??? This was in the late 80's, so they weren't violating any patents at that point. I'm glad to see Ruger come out with this pistol, but I would hate to see Kel-Tec get squashed in the process. I really hope there was a licensure deal here.
 
This is a very interesting development.

I would like to learn more about the potential intellectual property issues in relation to Kel-Tec. But I'll be surprised if Ruger ends up in legal trouble. Say what you will about that company, they are not lacking in high-priced corporate lawyers and legal advice. (Sometimes Ruger's problem has been listening to their lawyers too much.) I bet they've either worked out a licensing agreement with Kel-Tec or have "designed their way around" any patented and/or trade-dress protected aspects of the KT pistols.

The big story here, as another commenter observed, is:

Nice to see Ruger seriously getting into the CCW market.
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I think that's great. Hope it proves to be a good little gun.
 
Except for some subtle styling changes and the addition of what appears to be a slide lock, the LCP is a dead wringer for a 1st gen P3AT.

The old addage "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" is of little comfort when it takes dollars away from people working for a small, customer-oriented and strongly pro-2A company and lines the pockets of a multi-million dollar corporate entity that has sold us out more than once. I like the Rugers I own, but as for the company, pi$$ on 'em. I'd rather support KT any day.
 
The old adage "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" is of little comfort when it takes dollars away from people working for a small, customer-oriented and strongly pro-2A company and lines the pockets of a multi-million dollar corporate entity that has sold us out more than once.
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Hmm -- you're right, that's another way of looking at it. I too admire KT for its innovation and resolute political incorrectness (before it was "cool!"). And it's an advantage to have both small and large, privately owned and publicly traded companies in the firearms marketplace.

Your comment is worth thinking about, MachIVshooter.
 
It's interesting to read many of the comments here; with many either displeased with the obvious KelTec similarities, that it's not offered in a larger caliber, or that it's too little, too late. While I personally wouldn't have minded if Ruger had bought the tooling from Colt and brought back the Government/Mustang/Pony models, I'm at least glad to see the company moving in another direction; hopefully this one will be successful and that we'll be seeing more innovative offerings for the CCW market in the near future.
 
As much trouble as the P3AT has given a GREAT many people, I hope Ruger slams this one out of the ball park and puts a SERIOUS dent in KT's bottom line. At least it will get KT to sit up and take notice that people do NOT want to have to finish "kit" pistols, even something as simple as a fluff and buff and sometimes far more extensive stuff is needed to get the darned thing to WORK. After all, there are ENTIRE forums dedicated to fixing KT pistols. :rolleyes:

As for the Ruger, KT had NO collaboration at all with them. This comes from KTWM, who is a KT employee and member over at KTOG.org. Also, the slide lock does not lock back on an empty mag. It's manually operated only for cleaning and/or clearing a jam. There is no magazine safety. There are video and audio clips over at the Personal Defense TV website.
 
I think the gun it's self looks great. Certainly no one can deny it resembles a Kel-Tec, but I'm sure Ruger either paid KT, or changed it enough to "get away with it".

I've bought a Kel Tec 380, and sold it due to reliability issues. I have also tried 2 different 32's from Kel Tec, and could not get them to be reliable either. I always looked at Kel Tec's and thought they appeared "cheap", but really liked the designs. I just wished they were better made, and more reliable.

I hope that the new Ruger 380 proves to be reliable, and I'd like to get one if most of the initial reviews report that its a good gun.

I can't see Ruger making the gun in 9mm, and keeping it that same size. It would just be way too much recoil, they would have to make the gun at least somewhat larger, and heavier. They are aiming for the CCW market, and they are smart to keep the gun small enough that it will fit in anyones pocket comfortably. Maybe they will make a 32 acp as well?

There have been LOTS of copies made in the gun industry. Most of Taurus' initial guns, the Seecamp has been copied, Browning Hi Power, Glocks, 1911s, and the list goes on. At least Ruger is an American Company known for quality guns. They have thier faults, but most companies do.
 
Actually, I just read over at KTOG.org that ol' George Kelgren, the owner of KT, stupidly did not patent anything on any of his firearms. People did some extensive patent research and only found that he patented some sort of folding bayonet. :rolleyes: Not too smart there and I'm pretty sure Ruger will be just fine. The KTOGer mentions something about industrial sabotage or spying, but I don't think that's the case. It's not like Ruger couldn't just buy one and go from there. It's not like these pistols are rocket science or anything to detail strip. Second post from the last.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1201975632/150

On another note, how do you quote someone? I don't see anywhere to click. :confused:
 
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