True Pocket 380's

[GunLvrNLearner]

I mean true pocket 380's not Bersa 380s, with first the Keltec 380 and now the Ruger LCP and within a month or so the new Kahr 380 it seems like its a new era with true pocket 380's

Whats your thought on this?

Do you know of any other true pocket 380's?

 

[lawdog41]

Walther PPK?
Colt Mustang?
Sphinx AT 380?

Depends on how big your pockets are.

Used to be the Colt 1908 Model (M) was a pocket .380, but then people had bigger pockets.

 

[Girodin]

The colt mustang and pony that were made years ago fit very easily into the pocket of any thing I wear.
Other .380s include: Seecamp, NAA guardian, Sig p232, SW sigma (I wouldn't buy this one though), etc

The LCP is just a copy of the Kel tec. I am not sure it is evidence of a new era of pocket .380s. I think the new era of pocket guns is the advent of 9mms small enough to be pocket guns such as the rohrbaugh r9 and the Khar PM9

You may find this informative http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

 

[JohnKSa]

The Walther PPK is small, but it's also pretty heavy since it's an all steel pistol. I'd probably go with something a bit lighter if I were going to pocket carry.

 

[loop]

The .380 pocket pistol has been around since 1908. There are many variants. There is a lot of information about them available over the net.

Ruger's variant is questionable at this time.

 

[huntershooter]

I like the NAA "Seecamp" knockoff.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

The Seecamp LWS380. Same size as the Seecamp in 25 or 32 cal..

Expensive, hard to get, but Rolex of mouseguns in any caliber.









Jesse

 

[benzuncle]

+1 on "The Rolex of Mouseguns". I couldn't afford a Rolex either so I bought a very nice Seiko. As for the 380, I chose the NAA Guardian with Cocobolo grips and a Nemisis pocket holster.


6+1 rounds of Remington Golden Sabers; Sandisk: 1gig

I also prefer the location of the mag release on the Guardian, but if I stumbled on a super price on a Seecamp...

 

[PX15]

benzuncle:

Not a thing wrong with the fine NAA Guardian.

Several years ago when Seecamp LWS32's were being scalped for $1000+, with several years wait I purchased a first series (AA) 32cal NAA Guardian and it was a very good weapon. In fact later I bought another.

I have nothing but good things to say about Sandy's little pistols.. I'm not "anti-clone", and some folks prefer the slightly easier disassembly, and sights of of the Guardian that are different, or absent on the Seecamp pistol.

I'm not too crazy about the NAA Guardian in 380cal. because of it's bulk and weight. I think the Seecamp has an advantage here, but it's just personal opinion.

I would say a person desiring a mousegun would be well served with either the NAA Guardian, or the Seecamp pistol in either caliber.. Just personal preference as to which a person might chose.

Actually now the prices of the LWS32 and 32cal. NAA Guardian aren't that far apart, but no doubt the difference in prices of the LWS380 & the NAA Guardian in 380cal. are considerable.

But, Larry Seecamp sells every LWS32 or LWS380 he can manufacture, and even with a hefty price tag and a wait of 12-14 months he can't build LWS380's fast enough for the demand.

Guess he has a good product?

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[benzuncle]

PX, I sure can't argue with you about the attributes of the Seecamp. I wanted one, just couldn't justify the time lag or cost. And a year ago, even the NAA 380 was not that easy to find. I had to call 6 or 7 gun shops to even find one. And so sir, to set the record straight, I'm envious of you. Enjoy!

 

[rantingredneck]

I've owned 2 NAA Guardians and a KT P3AT. I now own an LCP.

As soon as I bought and fired the LCP I sold the second Guardian. I just couldn't justify keeping both and the Guardian wasn't going to get carried much anymore due to the weight difference.

The NAA's are very nice guns though.

Wasn't impressed with the P3AT personally and I didn't keep it long. The LCP is a definite improvement IMO.

 

[Farnorthdan]

I gotta tell ya, I've had a few and still have some. I just sold my NAA Guardian .380, too heavy for the size and the trigger didn't do much for me. I have a few Walthers, again too heavy but love them so won't be getting rid of them anytime soon. This includes my model 5 in .25acp. But I gotta tell you that LCP is by far the best pocket .380 I've encountered yet. Its a little chintzier than some of the others but its very light, accurate, the trigger is good, no failures to fire after at least 500 rounds and the most important thing of all, the price is right......jsut my .02

DS

 

[mgregg85]

I've got a sig p232 and you'd be hard pressed to pocket carry it unless your wearing some cargo pants. It does work great though in an IWB holster which I prefer over pocket carry.

 

[PX15]

benzuncle:

Thanks for the kind words..

I've really turned into a "Seecamp homer" during the past year. The www.seecamp.com forum is a super place w/great folks. (Stop by and visit some time).

I'm just an old retired fart, and coming up with $795+ to buy the LWS380 was not easy for me. I had several other firearms I had acquired over the years that I just didn't use any more, so I sold off a few to finance my new loves, the Seecamp & the HK P7 pistols. I consider both to be fantastic firearms.

I'm of the opinion that IF you get a "good one" you will be well served by the P3AT, or the NAA 380cal Guardian, or the Ruger LCP, probably the not yet released Kahr 380, and of course the Seecamp LWS380.

I would be the last to say that one LWS380 is worth two LCP's for example, but I would RATHER own one LWS380 than two LCP's.. And that's personal opinion, and I'm right, FOR ME, but others might see differently.

I'm not anti-Ruger either. I still have a Security-Six I've had for over 30 years, and it's my wife's nightstand by the bed.. The first rimfire pistol I bought my Son was (and is) a Ruger Single-Six Convertible with his initials engraved on it. I might even buy an LCP one day to replace a "hidy" KT P32 I have stashed in the car, but not yet. I'm still hearing too many horror stories right now. I'm a bit surprised at all the teething problems the LCP is having considering Keltec has been making basically the same pistol for several years. I do know Ruger well enough to know they'll eventually get it "right", but I'll just wait a spell.

All personal opinion, not looking for trouble.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[Tirod]

I wouldn't worry about the teething problems on the LCP. The 1 gen Keltec had just as many, and the factory had a tutorial out on how to "home gunsmith" the corrections yourself. Ruger's production has already incorporated changes to address early issues. Lots of posts on new owners who say "I have no problems with my new LCP."

If at all possible, shoot some of each. Then carry, if that's your plan. Poly framed pocket pistols excel there, as well as price. I would go Ruger just because it would be an easier resale in this market if you find it's not right for you. Keltec still gets a lot of "Who?" in my area, and the others may take a while to find a well heeled buyer.

As with pocket knives, it takes a good six months to really figure out all the pro's and con's of a design and whether you can live with it. It's smart to try to deduce ahead of time if something may have better features.

 

[PX15]

Tirod:

No doubt Ruger will find (or unknowing beta test owners will) and fix whatever teething issues are still hiding out in the new LCP. I like Rugers, and have a great deal of appreciation and respect for their firearms. (Well, truthfully I'm not a fan of their larger centerfire pistols, but everything else I seem to love.).

My problem is not with Ruger and the new LCP, my problem is with ANY new product of this type, by any manufacturer.

Here's why.

If a new firearm is going to have issues, it's "generally" in the first series run, or early on.. At some point the little bugs that were not picked up in design, development and testing will show up, and as soon as they are discovered they will be corrected by any quality manufacturer. Trouble is, the nature of most of us is "we want it NOW".... We don't want to wait for a polished product, we want 'em early, and generally we pay for that pleasure by paying more for the gun that it should sell for, and we have a higher chance of getting a "buggy" firearm in the bargain.

I should have learned that lesson with my first series: Taurus PT22, or my Charter Arms Pathfinder (22cal.), or my Beretta Tomcat.. And most recently, and the one that finally made it sink into my old noggin, the Walther PPS.

Oh yeah.. In the process I learned the Beretta Customer Service/Warranty Repair sucks. All the others stepped right up to the plate with either timely and proper fixes, or in the case of Charter Arms & S&W (they provide warranty service for the Walther PPS) they just gave me a new firearm.

All of the above were first series, low serial numbered new models, and all of them had "bugs".. Instant gratification is not always a good thing..

I like the looks of the Ruger LCP, not for daily cc as I have my Seecamp for that, but it is certainly priced right, and is built by a company with a great reputation.. I might buy one "later" just to stash in my car for emergencies & such, maybe a b/u to my three Seecamps, but I'm gonna wait a while.

Well, it's not like I'm "undergunned" anyway.

Just personal opinion, contrary opinions welcomed.

Jesse

 

[OregonJohnny]

You know, this "new" mouse gun trend is interesting. Many will tell you mouse guns have been around for many years. But it's the HUGE demand for pocket pistols lately that I believe forced Ruger to make the LCP. Maybe they could have spent a few more years designing one from scratch and testing and testing and testing. But they took a decent platform (Kel Tec) that was suffering a little in reputation and quickly turned it into a "new" design. Now Kahr is about to jump into the ring (with a much different design than Ruger came up with). Who's next?

About 5 years ago, when I first got my CHL, sub-compacts were the hot item. The HK P2000sk, SA XDsc, and Glock whatevers were everywhere. This trend shifted slightly to the tiny pocket pistols we all talk so much about now. Personally, I pocket carry a revolver (S&W 642) but I have flirted with the idea of an LCP for ULTRA pocket carry. The 642 rides comfortably in a cargo shorts pocket, but gets cumbersome in a jeans or slacks pocket. I think the tiny mouse guns really have a niche to fill and any manufacturer would do well to jump in right now. The more manufacturers that come up with new designs, the more options we will all have, and hopefully, the better the quality will eventually have to become to stay ahead.

 

[MCgunner]

I've got an old Grendel P12. It's a little smaller than a Kel Tec P11 9mm and a little lighter and carries 12 rounds. It fits front or back jeans pockets. It's minute of BG head at 15 yards off hand, pretty lousy trigger, but I can shoot it and it's 100 percent reliable, no jams. I also like the heal clip mag release design, what a true pocket gun should have.

I've thought about getting a P3AT or an LCP. Might some day, not a real high priority as I normally pocket the P11 or a snubby revolver and don't really have a lot of faith in .380 caliber when I can carry a 9 or a .38 +P just fine.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

I know we all have our favorite means of carrying our firearms concealed, but I'll tell ya, after decades of trying to figure out a way to carry a concealed firearm in the heat and humidity of SE Ga. I have come to the conclusion that for ME the rear pocket (wallet style) holster is the best solution I've found, so far.

I can put my LWS32 in my back pocket in my Hedley holster, and I'm good to go almost anytime, any place it is legal to do so. It's so comfortable it's easy to forget it's even there, and at least on one occasion I had to back out of a Court House when I was next in line at the metal detector.

During the cooler season, which lasts approximately 3 days here in SE Ga. I enjoy carrying my HK P7, Walther PPS, concealed or when I'm in a wheelgun mood my 638 J-frame Smith. I've found the extremely thin FIST Kydex iwb works great those times.. The FIST Kydex holster is not the prettiest girl at the dance, but they work just fine.

Lets face it, we all love bigger calibers and more capacity, but unless you can conceal that hand cannon completely, and comfortably, it has to stay at the house and is absolutely useless.

For those of you who have not tried the rear pocket, or even front pocket style of carrying your mousegun concealed I recommend you give it a try. It might not be to your liking, but the ease of concealment and comfort might surprise you.

I pick up my car keys, wallet, and Hedley holster w/my LWS32 in it and I'm good to go.... Any place, anytime.

Just another option..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[benderx4]

Plus 1 for the Seecamp LWS32 -- and nowadays you can actually find one reasonably priced too!

 

[jocko]

LWS32 a great quality made gun, but IMO just not enough firepower. Anything smaller than the 380 IMO is not enoughk, especialy where there are 380's out there smaller and liter and that work..

 

[benderx4]

I figure if it was enough firepower to start WWI, (a Browning I believe), and more importantly, enough firepower for James Bond, it's enough for me. Bad guys aren't that big here in Florida.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I mean true pocket 380's not Bersa 380s

Hrmmm, I have a Bersa Thunder 380 concealed carry model and there are a few here who will testify that you can't tell when I've got it in my pocket.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Frommer Baby, Bayard 1908, and the Mann W.T. were all true vest pocket pistols available in .380 ACP back in the early years of the 20th century. I've often wondered why Browning didn't produce one .

 

[GunNut]

Really starting to like my Ruger LCP, but would love to have a Seecamp .380acp.