Ruger .380

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Since Ruger is so late to the market with this very derivative design; they need to have a better quality, better support, quicker manufacturing, and lower price than the competition in order to succeed.

MSRP Ruger LCP: $330

MSRP Kel-Tec P3AT: $324
 
Maybe, but with so many frustrated P3AT owners and between the people that would NEVER buy one and the ones on the fence after reading about all the P3AT problems, if Ruger gets this one right, they are going to do VERY well. I'd be runnin' a bit scared if I were KT right about now. :evil:
 
ScottD said:
Maybe, but with so many frustrated P3AT owners and between the people that would NEVER buy one and the ones on the fence after reading about all the P3AT problems, if Ruger gets this one right, they are going to do VERY well. I'd be runnin' a bit scared if I were KT right about now.
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Agreed, there is an obvious need, question remains whether Ruger can fill this need.

Also, I'd expect to see a price slash on the P3AT very soon. All of this is good for us, the consumer.
 
Dammit, how do you quote someone?

Whirlwind, it was my understanding that Kelgren didn't patent ANYTHING other than his folding bayonet. The quote below is from the post I provided a KTOG link to earlier. Again, ol' Georgie porgie doesn't seem so bright after all, at least in a business sense, especially after the horrible Grendel, completely unreliable gang banger Tec-9 and complete failure of that company before KT. No patents on the Grendel or under Intratec.

"After an extensive patent search, I learned that the only patent held by George Kellgren or Kel-Tec is D527,788, which is a patent for their foldable bayonet. I could find no previous patents held by Grendel or Intratec."
 
ScottD said:
Dammit, how do you quote someone?
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For demo purposes I need to use "<" and ">" symbols. Keep in mind that for actual use, you must use brackets instead "[" & "]"

ctrl-C & ctrl-V the text you want to quote. Then put <quote> at the beginning of the text and </quote> at the end.
 
I know how to do it the html way, but every other forum I've seen has a "quote" button to click on somewhere. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing one on my account. :confused:

And don't forget to use <quote=member name> text... </quote> so people know who the original quoted text came from. Pain in the arse to do it manually versus a simple quote button click.:rolleyes:
 
Really? Wow... Ban quote misuse! :D What's to stop people from copying lengthy posts manually other than it takes a few seconds longer? Again, I've NEVER not seen a quote function on any other board. Is the server space really that limited on THR?
 
Just that added level of difficulty prevents a lot of misuse. AFAIK it isn't a bandwidth issue, more for clarity, reduction of unnecessary pages, and less quote mining.

Can't say I like it, but that's the way it is.
 
SuperNaut said:
Just that added level of difficulty prevents a lot of misuse. AFAIK it isn't a bandwidth issue, more for clarity, reduction of unnecessary pages, and less quote mining.

Can't say I like it, but that's the way it is.
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:D

Seriously, thanks for the info and sorry to the OP for the thread hijack!

One thing's for sure is this site sure is slow, especially when posting.
 
I'm surprised at the attention this pistol is getting with all the '380 is to underpowered' talk lately.

Seems like a nice little gun and i wish Ruger the best of luck with it but for the same price or less you can have a Bersa Thunder with one more round and an extra 3/4" of velocity boosting barrel length.

I think its a gamble.
 
greyeyezz said:
I'm surprised at the attention this pistol is getting with all the '380 is to underpowered' talk lately.
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Well, the smart ones already understand the limitations of the caliber and are simply discussing the merits of an über small and RELIABLE "outta da box" pocket .380 that is better than the KT crap. :D

Seriously, I stopped carrying my PPK/s for the very reason that it's too large and heavy for the caliber and never even thought about .380 carry again until the P3AT came out. Especially since there are smaller pistols in full house 9mm. With a +1 mag extension, the P3AT "can" deliver the same payload as the much larger and heavier PPK/s, but not very reliably in my experience. I always carry my PM9 and love it. :)
 
Actually, I just read over at KTOG.org that ol' George Kelgren, the owner of KT, stupidly did not patent anything on any of his firearms.
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That makes me feel better. My fruitless search at the Patent Office website produced nothing of interest invented by Kellgren (Kelgren) or assigned to Kel-Tec.

he based his designs on the Grendel which from what I'm reading is based on a Intertec design.
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Kellgren either owned or worked for Intertec and was the designer of the Grendel.
 
And ol' Georgie is going to take it in the shorts if this Ruger is successful since he has no grounds to stand on and sue. Shame as he should have been smarter and patented the P3AT design because I've never seen anything else like it in design and specifications and it was the ONLY game in town when released. Maybe he'll learn his lesson now.
 
The problem is that you have to patent something truly new for it to be effective. Combining a bunch of great ideas into one firearm is exactly that, not making something you can patent as unique.
 
psychophipps said:
The problem is that you have to patent something truly new for it to be effective. Combining a bunch of great ideas into one firearm is exactly that, not making something you can patent as unique.
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The P3AT was a pretty far departure from what was out there and was "new" in the sense of the truly lightweight pocket pistol in .380.

If what you say is true, then how come many other manufacturers have sued over patent/copyright infringement? The one that comes to mind is Glock successfully suing Kahr forcing them to implement some design changes to make it "un-Glock" enough, although the insides still look pretty similar in design.
 
Considering all the issues I've seen posted in here about Kel-Tecs and their (uh-hmmm) reliability out of the box, I'd buy a Ruger hands down. I own a couple Ruger rifles and have been pleased with their performance, (minus their triggers) and I've read a lot of good stuff in THR regarding their pistols.

As many others, I'd prefer the 9mm cartridge instead. However, lately I've been thinking of a smaller pocket carry gun and was considering a KelTec, now I have another option, likely a better one.

Go capitalism and competition, should be good for us consumer types.
 
Jeepmor, I'd still wait and see how the Ruger performs when it first comes out. There are going to be TONS of beta testers and I believe the "once bitten, twice shy" cliche...especially when it comes to small pistols like Kel-Tec's P3AT. Will NOT be going down that road again. :rolleyes:

As for a small 9mm, in my opinion, the Kahr PM9 is hard to beat. Sure, some people have had problems with them, but I never have. Very reliable and surprisingly accurate for such a small pocketable 9mm. Nice, smooth trigger, too. Toughguylevi over on Glocktalk has over 12,000 rounds through a PM9 with no failures except a very few ammo related ones. He did change out the recoil spring, but that's a lot of rounds on a gun that small. Never had to use it, but I hear Kahr's customer service is pretty good, too.
 
As soon as this thing hits my gun store shelf my P3AT will be for sale. Period, I for one have had it with Kel Tec Service.
 
I hear ya, Scottw. I'm keeping my P3AT because "we" got it running fairly well and it's already paid for. That "we" entails my labor and the money/time/frustration sending it back to KT. And yes, their customer service was great but I shouldn't have needed to use it...more than once. :rolleyes: I don't carry the P3AT anymore since getting a Kahr PM9, but I keep it around for its cuteness and novelty factor.:D
 
It's weird that just 2 weeks ago, I was thinking, "Man, I wish SOMEONE would make a super-reliable pocket-auto in .380 for under $400". I was even very close to actually purchasing a Kel-Tec P-3AT for pocket carry, but was torn because my buddy just bought one, has done the "fluff and buff" and cannot make a whole magazine go through it reliably. I finally bought a S&W 642 after handling one and reading "The 642 Club" posts here. I am thrilled with this pocket revolver, but I'm almost positive that if this new Ruger gets good reviews, I'll buy one. My complaints after handling and shooting my buddy's Kel-Tec were, "I wish it were just a little heavier and more solid," "I wish it didn't look so much like a toy," and of course, "I wish it would fire all 6 rounds without a failure!" It looks like this new Ruger might just fulfill my wishes. And for $300! Sign me up for one in stainless.
 
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